HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

12'/13' Draft Thread: Something, Something... SETH JONES!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 AM
  #251
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
I laughed. Twice.



I don't see that type of fallacy being applicable to this situation, even if you do accept its credibility. Jones is a superior prospect to Hedman and how Doughty was ranked as a prospect (at the time); Mackinnon is clearly less than Tavares and Stamkos.

It's much, much closer than those other draft classes.

And given the Leafs horrific defense, it is a problem, and a need for them to draft a d-man. For whatever reason, people love to ignore this and think offense is the problem.



Well said; I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this.



You forgot the best player so, I would probably replace 'laughing' and insert 'crying'.



Defense, and bigger and better top 6 wingers is what I would be going for. Center is not problematic when you have a ton of size and skill on the wing. So I would not limit the 'After that' to just d-men, but also include wingers.



It's a horrific comparison. Period.



Lol. I am of the same opinion; and I am not worried at all about being wrong.



I just don't understand how people can think because the Leafs drafted d-man previously that they do not need to continue filling this hole.

You can never, never, stop trying to add to your defensive prospects. The value in terms of assets will always be present.
Most scouts are of this opinion, he's such a good player already, and every time he laces them up, he looks better. Watch Portland in the WHL playoffs, should have a long and fruitful run. Dream match up is they meet up with Halifax and London in the Memorial Cup in Sask. Then we can watch the top prospects head to head.

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:46 AM
  #252
Makaveli
Registered User
 
Makaveli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: India
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
If we get a lottery pick I want one of Lindholm or Barkov.

Makaveli is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:46 AM
  #253
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,762
vCash: 500
To those of you who know nothing about Lindholm,

How refreshing would it be to have a star player that finishes their checks.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:53 AM
  #254
Crispy Crust
Registered User
 
Crispy Crust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Land of 13 Cups
Posts: 15,715
vCash: 500
Defense is a huge weakness for the Leafs. If we are in position to draft Seth Jones, I hope we take him.

Crispy Crust is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
  #255
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Shinkaruk doesn't skate even CLOSE to Kessel, however. This is a comparison people make because he has an NHL shot, and his quick release, but really, outside of that, is he REALLY like Kessel?
Was poking fun at how they both play a soft, perimeter game.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
  #256
The Naz
With God given hands
 
The Naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
No actually I intentionally left off Jones.

We wouldn't take him first overall and almost certainly would be trading Gardiner or Rielly if we did draft him.

WE NEED A FORWARD. WE ALL KNOW IT.
GMs don't draft 1st overall based on need.

The Naz is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #257
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispy Crust View Post
Defense is a huge weakness for the Leafs. If we are in position to draft Seth Jones, I hope we take him.
I just don't see it.

If we have the first pick and don't take Mackinnon, our franchise will watch a another #1 C get away. Seth Jones is special, but Mackinnon could have a chance to become the most marketable player in the game here in Toronto. Think about it.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:57 AM
  #258
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
GMs don't draft 1st overall based on need.
Lol at pretending that taking Mackinnon over Jones is due to "need".

We're talking about Tyler Seguin/Jonathan Toews/Steven Stamkos/John Tavares.

Vs.

A young Chris Pronger.

Who do you take?

EDIT: This is if Jones actually becomes what he's supposed to unlike many #1 ranked dmen.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #259
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Mackinnon reminds me of Tyler Seguin with more bite, that's not bad as much as this haunts Leafs fans to mention that name. Mackinnon has the same physical attributes of Tyler.

Jones on the other hand is not so easily compared to, best player of recent years I can think of is Alex Pietrangelo but much better at the same stage of their careers, but much more upside.

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:06 PM
  #260
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,500
vCash: 500
If MacK is on the board when we pick, you might as well put the order in for your jersey. He WILL be a Leaf.

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:08 PM
  #261
Terrence
Registered User
 
Terrence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,210
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendinblue View Post
Can you see him falling outside the top 5?
No lower than 6th, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
No actually I intentionally left off Jones.

We wouldn't take him first overall and almost certainly would be trading Gardiner or Rielly if we did draft him.

WE NEED A FORWARD. WE ALL KNOW IT.
We need both.

Terrence is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:08 PM
  #262
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Jones is #1 on most if not all professional scouting lists right now, not Mackinnon.

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:10 PM
  #263
Crispy Crust
Registered User
 
Crispy Crust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Land of 13 Cups
Posts: 15,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I just don't see it.

If we have the first pick and don't take Mackinnon, our franchise will watch a another #1 C get away. Seth Jones is special, but Mackinnon could have a chance to become the most marketable player in the game here in Toronto. Think about it.
Different story. If we have the 1st pick, we should take MacKinnon. 2nd pick and it's Jones.

Crispy Crust is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:10 PM
  #264
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,457
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Mackinnon reminds me of Tyler Seguin with more bite, that's not bad as much as this haunts Leafs fans to mention that name. Mackinnon has the same physical attributes of Tyler.

Jones on the other hand is not so easily compared to, best player of recent years I can think of is Alex Pietrangelo but much better at the same stage of their careers, but much more upside.
I'd love for the Leafs to get Jones if he has a high chance of reaching his upside.

If the Leafs got Jones and he turned out to be Erik Johnson, the fans would be heartbroken for a decade.

Pi is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:11 PM
  #265
The Naz
With God given hands
 
The Naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
To those of you who know nothing about Lindholm,

How refreshing would it be to have a star player that finishes their checks.
Him, Barkov, Monahan, and McKinnon all really play a solid 2 way game. It really is a good year for centers.

The Naz is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #266
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,500
vCash: 500
Scouts' lists don't matter to teams. They have their own lists, and their own needs in mind. Mackenzie, Button, Sonier, whoever; can rank them any way they please, but that really doesn't have an effect on how a team picks.

Plain and simple, if MacK is on the board, welcome the best player we've had in this town since Sundin, and maybe on of the most important players to this franchise in the modern era.

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #267
Sundinisagod
.........
 
Sundinisagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 9,391
vCash: 500
I think our team needs Seth Jones more than Nathan Mackinnon. I think a hulking, 2-way rh defender to play with Rielly would benefit our team more than upgrading on Bozak/Grabo in the top 6...especially with Kadri starting to look like what we had hoped for all along.

I've been sold on Jones over Mackinnon for awhile, but I'm just realizing that Jones fills our bigger need atm. That said, I'm thrilled to get anybody in the top 6, and after that there are about 5 or 6 players that I'm very excited about...I'm pretty optimistic we'll have a nice pick again...

My current top 10, and an NHL player style comparison (feel free to dispute my comparison)

1. Jones: Pietrangelo
2. Mackinnon: Sittler
3. Drouin: Giroux
4. Barkov: Sundin
5. Monahan: B Richards???
6. Lindhom: Backstrom
7. Nichushkin: Nash
8. Ristolainen: Seabrook
9. Pulock: Macinness
10: Nurse: Pronger (poor man's)

Sundinisagod is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:13 PM
  #268
Epictetus
Moderator
Create yourself.
 
Epictetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,713
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
No actually I intentionally left off Jones.

We wouldn't take him first overall and almost certainly would be trading Gardiner or Rielly if we did draft him.

WE NEED A FORWARD. WE ALL KNOW IT.
You intentionally left off the best player (considered by many scouts) because you believe the Leafs need a forward, and so would be happy taking ANY other top 10 forward over the best player (considered by many scouts).

Fantastic.

I don't believe you can even prove why the Leafs need a forward, rather than a d-man. If you can, I would love to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I just don't see it.

If we have the first pick and don't take Mackinnon, our franchise will watch a another #1 C get away. Seth Jones is special, but Mackinnon could have a chance to become the most marketable player in the game here in Toronto. Think about it.
Even accepting this premise (which I don't), why is Mackinnon more marketable than Jones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Lol at pretending that taking Mackinnon over Jones is due to "need".

We're talking about Tyler Seguin/Jonathan Toews/Steven Stamkos/John Tavares.

Vs.

A young Chris Pronger.

Who do you take?

EDIT: This is if Jones actually becomes what he's supposed to unlike many #1 ranked dmen.
The Leafs need defense, and Jones is head and shoulders the best player at his position. You acquire as much talent, regardless of position, and then when you think you can fill in the necessary spots, you trade excess talent.

It's not complicated to understand. This is basic strategy (or should be) of any GM.

So Jones won't become a #1 d-man (or there is risk), but MacKinnon does not have any risk because previous centers panned out? Look at Tyler Seguin/Jonathan Toews/Steven Stamkos/John Tavares!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
If MacK is on the board when we pick, you might as well put the order in for your jersey. He WILL be a Leaf.
This is a classic case where convention corrupts the masses.

If only we listened to Socrates centuries ago!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I'd love for the Leafs to get Jones if he has a high chance of reaching his upside.

If the Leafs got Jones and he turned out to be Erik Johnson, the fans would be heartbroken for a decade.
Jones =\= Johnson.

Completely different players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Scouts' lists don't matter to teams. They have their own lists, and their own needs in mind. Mackenzie, Button, Sonier, whoever; can rank them any way they please, but that really doesn't have an effect on how a team picks.

Plain and simple, if MacK is on the board, welcome the best player we've had in this town since Sundin, and maybe on of the most important players to this franchise in the modern era.
So, let me get this straight.

1) Teams can have their own lists. So, the Leafs can have their own list.

2) Yet...MacKinnon is a Leaf for sure?

3) Why can't the Leafs see Jones as above MacKinnon? You just said teams can have their own lists.

What am I missing here?

Epictetus is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:15 PM
  #269
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I'd love for the Leafs to get Jones if he has a high chance of reaching his upside.

If the Leafs got Jones and he turned out to be Erik Johnson, the fans would be heartbroken for a decade.
Jones is not Johnson, he is going to make an impact right away and for years to come. Shutdown D man, that controls the game, is a leader(not Phaneuf type leader) with above average offensive skills and size. The hockey lack of IQ questions some tried to lay on him were totally baseless, he has more than proven himself to be above average in all areas of his game at the Worlds and at the prospects game. Top prospect with a bullet in this draft IMO.

If you listen to any expert in hockey, not the HF boards ones. LOL He has separated himself from Mackinnon since the beginning of the year. Can't see any team passing on a talent like Seth. This includes MO and Nonis if he were available.

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #270
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,457
vCash: 50
Also, to the people saying that MacKinnon is not ranked #1:

Ryan Nugent Hopkins wasn't a consensus #1 in his draft year but there is little doubt now that he's the best player from that draft.

I think the Leafs needs to do what is best for them. If that means Seth Jones, then pick him. If it means MacKinnon then pick him.

If the Leafs somehow end up picking 1st, we're not going to draft based on the ISS rankings, we're going to draft based on our teams composition and who fits best on this team.

Pi is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #271
Sundinisagod
.........
 
Sundinisagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 9,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
If MacK is on the board when we pick, you might as well put the order in for your jersey. He WILL be a Leaf.
Leafs will pick who they believe to be BPA, just like last year. We have no idea who the Leafs think is BPA, but if they have Jones at number 1 they will draft him over Mackinnon. You really seem fixated on team needs, I am too but we have needs everywhere...especially on the defensive end.

Sundinisagod is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:19 PM
  #272
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think our team needs Seth Jones more than Nathan Mackinnon. I think a hulking, 2-way rh defender to play with Rielly would benefit our team more than upgrading on Bozak/Grabo in the top 6...especially with Kadri starting to look like what we had hoped for all along.

I've been sold on Jones over Mackinnon for awhile, but I'm just realizing that Jones fills our bigger need atm. That said, I'm thrilled to get anybody in the top 6, and after that there are about 5 or 6 players that I'm very excited about...I'm pretty optimistic we'll have a nice pick again...

My current top 10, and an NHL player style comparison (feel free to dispute my comparison)

1. Jones: Pietrangelo
2. Mackinnon: Sittler
3. Drouin: Giroux
4. Barkov: Sundin
5. Monahan: B Richards???
6. Lindhom: Backstrom
7. Nichushkin: Nash
8. Ristolainen: Seabrook
9. Pulock: Macinness
10: Nurse: Pronger (poor man's)
You are one of the bright ones my friend, watching Dion go at it alone is painful, Jones will be better than Dion in a short time. And this impacts our team's chances of competing 10 fold.

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:22 PM
  #273
The Naz
With God given hands
 
The Naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Jones is #1 on most if not all professional scouting lists right now, not Mackinnon.
I still think the best lists are the ones we will never see. Pro scouts are paid more then ISS etc, no?

I'm not adverse to Jones at all. If they deem him #1, then I'm excited for that. But I don't think we will see the leafs there. I think we will be 5-10. If we are bad enough for 1st overall, then we have to go BPA, and even consider moving my favourite, Dion.

The Naz is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:22 PM
  #274
The Mentalist
A Hockey Mentalist
 
The Mentalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 36,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Leafs will pick who they believe to be BPA, just like last year. We have no idea who the Leafs think is BPA, but if they have Jones at number 1 they will draft him over Mackinnon. You really seem fixated on team needs, I am too but we have needs everywhere...especially on the defensive end.
Yep, nailed it again. Fixation on need when we need a franchise D, lord knows it is evident with Kostka and Dion that past 2 games is an even greater need than a C.

When Jones is the player some are proposing to pass on, you really have to question the sanity of some.

Jones prospects come a long once a decade and we will pass on him to pick a supposed need?

The Mentalist is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #275
Rare Jewel
Patience
 
Rare Jewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Leaf Land
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
If MacK is on the board when we pick, you might as well put the order in for your jersey. He WILL be a Leaf.
Well he's gone in the first two picks, And if by some chance we did end up with the first pick and we're the team that has to make that choice then you go BPA like always.

Right now Jones is my #1. He was dominant at the WJC and is no doubt ready for the NHL right now. Size, Speed, Guile. He's the complete package.

Mackinnon on the other hand is 11 months younger than Jones so there still could that much more upside. One of my few problems with Nate is I think given his style I think he may end up being a winger down the line.

Rare Jewel is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.