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12'/13' Draft Thread: Something, Something... SETH JONES!

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01-28-2013, 09:07 PM
  #426
TheMadHatTrick
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Not really.
To me Doughty is already the noticeably better player and has the higher ceiling also. I could see Doughty winning 1-2 Norris's during his career and I dont think Seguin has that kind of potential (forward wise).
Stamkos or Doughty then?

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01-28-2013, 09:08 PM
  #427
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Stamkos or Doughty then?
Stamkos for me.

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01-28-2013, 09:11 PM
  #428
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Stamkos for me.
It'd be a tough choice for me. I have no idea who I'd chose.

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01-28-2013, 09:11 PM
  #429
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Doughty was sensationally dominant in the playoffs. His talent although at times inconsistent over last year and even the start of this season, when on form, is frightening.

A similar forward I believe would have to be one of the best players in the game to make me pause. I'd take him over the Sedins, pause at Kopitar and take Toews. That's where I'd rank him.

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01-28-2013, 09:12 PM
  #430
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Stamkos or Doughty then?
Prolly Stamkos but if this is in relation to the Jones/Mackinnon debate I dont see Mackinnon as good of a prospect as Stamkos was.

I just have a issue with some people comparing Jones to E Johnson and saying they would be hesitant in drafting Jones because of how Johnson has panned out (its totally unfair also to use this because Johnson had a serious knee injury that he missed significant time from, who knows how good he would have been if that never happened).

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01-28-2013, 09:13 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Outstanding logic.

What does the fact that E Johnson was drafted #1 overall, had a stellar rookie season that was followed by a knee injury that hes really never gotten fully back to form from have to do with Seth Jones?

Just because Erik Johnson hasnt lived up to expectations doesnt make Seth Jones anyless of a outstanding prospect.
It goes further than that.

Compare the best ranked/first picked defenseman to the best-ranked forward in the last ~10 years.

Quote:
2002 Draft:*
1. Rick Nash
2. Kari Lehtonen
3. Jay Bouwmeester

2004 Draft:
1. Alexander Ovechkin
2. Evgeni Malkin
3. Cam Barker

2005 Draft:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Bobby Ryan
3. Jack Johnson

2006 Draft:
1. Erik Johnson
2. Jordan Staal
3. Jonathan Toews
4. Nicklas Backstrom
5. Phil Kessel

2008 Draft:
1. Steven Stamkos
2. Drew Doughty

2009 Draft:*
1. John Tavares
2. Victor Hedman
3. Matt Duchene
I put an asterisk next to the years where there were serious discussion that a defenceman would go 1st Overall.

I'm not putting Seth Jones down, although the Johnson comparison probably did just that, but picking a defenceman that high is a gamble I don't want to take. And history proves that to be true.

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01-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Prolly Stamkos but if this is in relation to the Jones/Mackinnon debate I dont see Mackinnon as good of a prospect as Stamkos was.

I just have a issue with some people comparing Jones to E Johnson and saying they would be hesitant in drafting Jones because of how Johnson has panned out (its totally unfair also to use this because Johnson had a serious knee injury that he missed significant time from, who knows how good he would have been if that never happened).
I love Jones, and I would honestly take him over Mackinnon (partly because I think Mackinnon will be a winger). But if Jones just had more of a meanstreak or nastiness to his game like Pronger there would be zero question in my mind. At his size with his skill, skating, and hockey IQ, if he only had that nastiness he would have absolutely everything.

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01-28-2013, 09:19 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
It goes further than that.

Compare the best ranked/first picked defenseman to the best-ranked forward in the last ~10 years.



I put an asterisk next to the years where there were serious discussion that a defenceman would go 1st Overall.

I'm not putting Seth Jones down, although the Johnson comparison probably did just that, but picking a defenceman that high is a gamble I don't want to take. And history proves that to be true.
Sure but you have to take that stuff in context and also evaluate who the best prospect in the draft is and for me if thats a defensemen then I take him first regardless of past history. What happened in the past has no bearing on what kind of player Seth Jones will develop into seeing hes the only one who controls that destiny. I would also easily argue that Jones natural skillset (size, speed, frame, skills) is just as good or better then almost any defensemen selected in awhile.

I could understand preferring Mackinnon over Jones but I wouldnt lose sleep on selecting Jones because of previous highly rated Dmen selected that high. Doughty turned out awesome and I would say Jones has every bit of a chance to become that type of player and even better.

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01-28-2013, 09:20 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
I love Jones, and I would honestly take him over Mackinnon (partly because I think Mackinnon will be a winger). But if Jones just had more of a meanstreak or nastiness to his game like Pronger there would be zero question in my mind. At his size with his skill, skating, and hockey IQ, if he only had that nastiness he would have absolutely everything.
Sure but then you'd have basically the best defensemen prospect of all time.

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01-28-2013, 10:09 PM
  #435
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Still Mackinnon for me. Skates like the wind, good hands, good vision and good release. Star center in the making.

Jones is more risk and if both players hit their ceiling, it does not justify the reward. He's easily my two spot.

1) Mac
2) Jones
3)Drouin
4) Barkov
5) Lindholm

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01-28-2013, 11:23 PM
  #436
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Fantasy draft question. You can have one of two players on the current Leafs: Drew Doughty or Tyler Seguin. Would you consider them roughly equal talents relative to position? Which one would you rather have?
Seguin. Doughty is highly overrated.

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01-28-2013, 11:26 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
It goes further than that.

Compare the best ranked/first picked defenseman to the best-ranked forward in the last ~10 years.



I put an asterisk next to the years where there were serious discussion that a defenceman would go 1st Overall.

I'm not putting Seth Jones down, although the Johnson comparison probably did just that, but picking a defenceman that high is a gamble I don't want to take. And history proves that to be true.
No, history proves that this was the case in the past. History is not enough to say that Jones will be a bust. History can't even accurately predict Jones' future.

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01-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Seguin. Doughty is highly overrated.


plz explain

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:53 PM
  #439
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plz explain
My biggest issue is he is so frigging inconsistent. There are times he looks dominant, but there are many other times he looks pedestrian. A true elite dman just doesn't have that issue. I'm just not a huge fan. And for fantasy purposes, this is absolutely killer. Plus playing on a team that has a difficult time scoring, this is going to limit his offensive upside.

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01-29-2013, 02:25 AM
  #440
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My preferences:

1. Nathan MacKinnon (C)
2. Seth Jones (D)
3. Elias Lindholm (C)
4. Jonathan Drouin (LW)
5. Aleksander Barkov (C)
6. Sean Monahan (C)
7. Valeri Nichushkin (C/LW)
8. Rasmus Ristolainen (D)
9. Hunter Shinkaruk (C/RW)
10. Max Domi (C/LW)

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01-29-2013, 03:23 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
Stamkos or Doughty then?
Stamkos without thinking twice.

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01-29-2013, 06:34 AM
  #442
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Spoken like a true Barkov fan, I remember you from the Barkov thread on the main board!
Well he needs some more love around here, since you especially seem to outright loathe him, for no good reason.

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01-29-2013, 06:41 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
It goes further than that.

Compare the best ranked/first picked defenseman to the best-ranked forward in the last ~10 years.



I put an asterisk next to the years where there were serious discussion that a defenceman would go 1st Overall.

I'm not putting Seth Jones down, although the Johnson comparison probably did just that, but picking a defenceman that high is a gamble I don't want to take. And history proves that to be true.
Not only that but typically they take longer to develop.

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01-29-2013, 06:43 AM
  #444
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No, history proves that this was the case in the past. History is not enough to say that Jones will be a bust. History can't even accurately predict Jones' future.
That's not what he said. He said picking a dman first is a gamble which it is.

These 2 are close in terms of ranking so I take the forward every single time

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01-29-2013, 09:21 AM
  #445
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I've got to say I am quite shocked that there are Maple Leaf fans out there who would support Rielly/Jones in back to back drafts as opposed to Rielly/Mackinnon.

You can talk about BPA all you want, but at the end of the day teams don't pass up #1 C's with all star potential for a D who is likely to be marginally better than the rest of the D chosen in the draft. We only see one or two and then on rare occasions 3/4 #1 C's out of a draft.

Yet ironically there are about 6 or 7 teams who think they drafted a dynamic type Dman in last years draft. Us included.

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01-29-2013, 10:27 AM
  #446
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Well he needs some more love around here, since you especially seem to outright loathe him, for no good reason.
He's says that as though it's something to be embarrassed about. I never understand this guys arrogance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I've got to say I am quite shocked that there are Maple Leaf fans out there who would support Rielly/Jones in back to back drafts as opposed to Rielly/Mackinnon.

You can talk about BPA all you want, but at the end of the day teams don't pass up #1 C's with all star potential for a D who is likely to be marginally better than the rest of the D chosen in the draft. We only see one or two and then on rare occasions 3/4 #1 C's out of a draft.

Yet ironically there are about 6 or 7 teams who think they drafted a dynamic type Dman in last years draft. Us included.
The last few games have shown we are desperate for a #2D with a very solid D game. With all the talent Rielly has, defense isn't really one of them.

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01-29-2013, 10:32 AM
  #447
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The last few games have shown we are desperate for a #2D with a very solid D game. With all the talent Rielly has, defense isn't really one of them.
We've also shown that our top line is completely non-existent due to only have one capable player on it.

Interesting..

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01-29-2013, 10:47 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I've got to say I am quite shocked that there are Maple Leaf fans out there who would support Rielly/Jones in back to back drafts as opposed to Rielly/Mackinnon.

You can talk about BPA all you want, but at the end of the day teams don't pass up #1 C's with all star potential for a D who is likely to be marginally better than the rest of the D chosen in the draft. We only see one or two and then on rare occasions 3/4 #1 C's out of a draft.

Yet ironically there are about 6 or 7 teams who think they drafted a dynamic type Dman in last years draft. Us included.

You are basing this statement on previous drafts? Seth Jones certainly projects to be more than just "marginally better than the rest of the D".

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01-29-2013, 10:50 AM
  #449
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Let's face it when it comes to the top players in the draft we're not so solid at any position that we can say "oh yeah, don't need him." Could a top notch dman help improve the defence? I'd say yeah. Could adding serious talent on the top line help improve our attack and put less pressure on the D? Also yes.

This time around will try not to get too focused on one guy or position. Last time got a bit surprised with the Rielly pick when really it was the right move to make. If we suck enough to have a shot at some of the top picks will just try to enjoy that since clearly the losing that would get us there wouldn't be pleasant.

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01-29-2013, 10:52 AM
  #450
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From the looks of things (twitter, etc), the Ruperts seem pretty tight with Max Domi.

I'd love to be able to draft him if we are somehow in position to do so. (Acquiring another first, or if we miraculously make the playoffs, etc.)

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