HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

12'/13' Draft Thread: Something, Something... SETH JONES!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 12:02 PM
  #476
TheMadHatTrick
Registered User
 
TheMadHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
You've accidentally described Pierre McGuire...
Yeah, McGuire is definitely stalky. lol

TheMadHatTrick is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:02 PM
  #477
calcal798
Registered User
 
calcal798's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
It's not even about does he want to stay here.. The entire article focuses on what's best for the Maple Leafs, and I'm convinced if the trade is right he should be the first to go.
First the trade has to be right. I really, really doubt we will see someone offer something that is right for us (not saying I don't want to, just saying I doubt it happens).

calcal798 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:05 PM
  #478
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
First the trade has to be right. I really, really doubt we will see someone offer something that is right for us (not saying I don't want to, just saying I doubt it happens).
By right I mean Schwartz and a 1st rather than the "Read and a 1st" Maclean through out last night.

It's got to be a player that can be part of our core.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:07 PM
  #479
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
That stuff's for the trade thread.

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:10 PM
  #480
I am Canadian
Foreverly Hopeful
 
I am Canadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,641
vCash: 500
Anyone else here really want Sean Monahan?
I could see him going #5 which is where we will probably fall around

I am Canadian is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:10 PM
  #481
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
It's not even about does he want to stay here.. The entire article focuses on what's best for the Maple Leafs, and I'm convinced if the trade is right he should be the first to go.
That should be the case with any asset we own. Kessel, Rielly, Gardiner...even the first rounders we have. Asset management is about getting the best value for a player. If that player is better used bringing back an asset worth more to the team than the player being traded, then so be it.

That said, I highly doubt any Kessel trade serves this team better than Kessel.

theIceWookie is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:12 PM
  #482
Terrence
Registered User
 
Terrence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,209
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
If we're comparing Mats Sundin with a "couple of Norris trophies" type defender, I'll take Sundin 10/10.

If Nonis and co. deem Jones the BPA, they're going to trade the 1st pick. There's just no way they don't leave this draft with a forward (unless Jones falls to them).
You do realize there's only 11 defensemen in NHL history that have won 2 or more Norris trophies, right?

I'll take "a couple Norris trophies" over Sundin, all day.

Terrence is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:12 PM
  #483
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Canadian View Post
Anyone else here really want Sean Monahan?
I could see him going #5 which is where we will probably fall around
I like him, but he's in my secon tier of wants, and that tier is crowded.... Hahah

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:13 PM
  #484
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
By right I mean Schwartz and a 1st rather than the "Read and a 1st" Maclean through out last night.

It's got to be a player that can be part of our core.
No thanks. I'm not trading a four time 30 goal scoring forward who is only 25 (and thus easily fits into the future of this team) and just finished top 6 in the ENTIRE NHL for goals and points for a late first round pick (which is what the 1st will be) and an undersized prospect that has proven absolutely nothing at the pro level. That is a trade that makes absolutely no sense.

theIceWookie is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:14 PM
  #485
calcal798
Registered User
 
calcal798's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
By right I mean Schwartz and a 1st rather than the "Read and a 1st" Maclean through out last night.

It's got to be a player that can be part of our core.
I wouldn't do that.

Kessel's a top ten RW (maybe top 5) in the league, on a fair deal, coming off a top ten scoring season. I'd want more then that. Like I said, I really don't see the right deal coming along (as much as I'd like it). I think Kessel will stay, he said he likes it here. He'll get paid about 7-7.5 and be one of our core players.

If he can play solid defensively, I don't think anyone should complain about having him.

calcal798 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:14 PM
  #486
The Magic Man
With God given hands
 
The Magic Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That should be the case with any asset we own. Kessel, Rielly, Gardiner...even the first rounders we have. Asset management is about getting the best value for a player. If that player is better used bringing back an asset worth more to the team than the player being traded, then so be it.

That said, I highly doubt any Kessel trade serves this team better than Kessel.
Yep. And that's the point most miss. With a proper top line, Kessel is a top scorer in this league. But everyone is so enamoured with potential, they're blinded to actual real ability. We won't win a Kessel trade. The only reason we move him is if he says he wants out. Judging by the Lupul signing, we won't be moving him. I highly doubt it. We need to focus on adding to what we have, not tearing down and starting over.

The Magic Man is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:17 PM
  #487
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
Yep. And that's the point most miss. With a proper top line, Kessel is a top scorer in this league. But everyone is so enamoured with potential, they're blinded to actual real ability. We won't win a Kessel trade. The only reason we move him is if he says he wants out. Judging by the Lupul signing, we won't be moving him. I highly doubt it. We need to focus on adding to what we have, not tearing down and starting over.
Ehmen. Lol

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:18 PM
  #488
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
But let's not let this thread turn into a debate about trading Kessel.

Everyone rank your top 5 wingers...... GO!

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:22 PM
  #489
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Canadian View Post
Anyone else here really want Sean Monahan?
I could see him going #5 which is where we will probably fall around
I've seen him a few times, underwhelming each time. He's got a great shot though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That should be the case with any asset we own. Kessel, Rielly, Gardiner...even the first rounders we have. Asset management is about getting the best value for a player. If that player is better used bringing back an asset worth more to the team than the player being traded, then so be it.

That said, I highly doubt any Kessel trade serves this team better than Kessel.
Yes, but until we have to invest 7+ million in the others on a team that's destined for a bottom 10 finish, do we even entertain trade offers?

If we manage to bring in Halak and Getzlaf, Kessel is terrific here. But we don't have these pieces or anything that could replicate them in our system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrence View Post
You do realize there's only 11 defensemen in NHL history that have won 2 or more Norris trophies, right?

I'll take "a couple Norris trophies" over Sundin, all day.
I rest my case. Mats Sundin brought credibility and consistency to our team. Made free agents want to play here.

If Seth Jones is Rob Blake and Nathan Mackinnon is Alfredsson/Sundin, I want the later of the two.

Also, I understand how ridiculous it is to mention names like these and that Blake only one ONE Norris, but if it all goes right these are the caliber of players they could turn into.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:26 PM
  #490
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
Yep. And that's the point most miss. With a proper top line, Kessel is a top scorer in this league. But everyone is so enamoured with potential, they're blinded to actual real ability. We won't win a Kessel trade. The only reason we move him is if he says he wants out. Judging by the Lupul signing, we won't be moving him. I highly doubt it. We need to focus on adding to what we have, not tearing down and starting over.
And how do you want to go about this? Honest question. What's your idea on adding to Kessel/Lupul/Grabovski/Phaneuf/etc. How do we replace Bozak with this "proper" linemate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
But let's not let this thread turn into a debate about trading Kessel.

Everyone rank your top 5 wingers...... GO!
EDIT: MISREAD.

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:28 PM
  #491
The Winter Soldier
NHL PLAYOFFS
 
The Winter Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: China
Posts: 45,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
But let's not let this thread turn into a debate about trading Kessel.

Everyone rank your top 5 wingers...... GO!
Yes, agreed, let's get this thread back on track.

Like your number 1 prospect Mackinnon is just as stalky as players like Drouin or Mathew Dumba.. Could it be they are not Center's and not their size you were concerned about?

/Center obsession

The Winter Soldier is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #492
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
And how do you want to go about this? Honest question. What's your idea on adding to Kessel/Lupul/Grabovski/Phaneuf/etc. How do we replace Bozak with this "proper" linemate.

Sedin
Perry
Kane
Nash
Eberle

You can flip these players around and I wouldn't care, Kessel fits in with Neal/Parise as the next best.
No no, lol... I meant draft elligible wingers..

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #493
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I've seen him a few times, underwhelming each time. He's got a great shot though.


Yes, but until we have to invest 7+ million in the others on a team that's destined for a bottom 10 finish, do we even entertain trade offers?

If we manage to bring in Halak and Getzlaf, Kessel is terrific here. But we don't have these pieces or anything that could replicate them in our system.


I rest my case. Mats Sundin brought credibility and consistency to our team. Made free agents want to play here.

If Seth Jones is Rob Blake and Nathan Mackinnon is Alfredsson/Sundin, I want the later of the two.

Also, I understand how ridiculous it is to mention names like these and that Blake only one ONE Norris, but if it all goes right these are the caliber of players they could turn into.
So Kessel is useless without other players, thus it means we should just cut ties and hope we can find a better player with a late first round pick? That's idiotic. I don't even get what the point of the logic is. Rebuilding teams don't trade away young players who have shown incredible potential, and been their best player.

It just goes beyond any logic for a rebuild.

Edit: Post is a little harsh. I just struggle mightily with understanding the logic of trading Kessel. Not any issue with the posters that exhibit said logic.


Last edited by theIceWookie: 01-29-2013 at 12:39 PM.
theIceWookie is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #494
Epictetus
Moderator
YNWA
 
Epictetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,529
vCash: 511
A Good read. Very relevant here.

The Problem of Induction:

The problem of induction is the philosophical question of whether inductive reasoning leads to knowledge understood in the classic philosophical sense, since it focuses on the lack of justification for either:

1) Generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class (for example, the inference that "all swans we have seen are white, and therefore all swans are white", before the discovery of black swans)

OR

2) Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the Principle of Uniformity of Nature.

Epictetus is online now  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:33 PM
  #495
The Winter Soldier
NHL PLAYOFFS
 
The Winter Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: China
Posts: 45,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
I've seen him a few times, underwhelming each time. He's got a great shot though.


Yes, but until we have to invest 7+ million in the others on a team that's destined for a bottom 10 finish, do we even entertain trade offers?

If we manage to bring in Halak and Getzlaf, Kessel is terrific here. But we don't have these pieces or anything that could replicate them in our system.

I rest my case. Mats Sundin brought credibility and consistency to our team. Made free agents want to play here.

If Seth Jones is Rob Blake and Nathan Mackinnon is Alfredsson/Sundin, I want the later of the two.

Also, I understand how ridiculous it is to mention names like these and that Blake only one ONE Norris, but if it all goes right these are the caliber of players they could turn into.
Why stop at one, I want both Blake and Alfredsson.

Blake is better this draft though.

The Winter Soldier is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #496
ErnieLeafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
A Good read. Very relevant here.

The Problem of Induction:

The problem of induction is the philosophical question of whether inductive reasoning leads to knowledge understood in the classic philosophical sense, since it focuses on the lack of justification for either:

1) Generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class (for example, the inference that "all swans we have seen are white, and therefore all swans are white", before the discovery of black swans)

OR

2) Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the Principle of Uniformity of Nature.
Williams, Popper, and Hume... Oh my!

Well played, sir.

ErnieLeafs is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:37 PM
  #497
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
No no, lol... I meant draft elligible wingers..
Aha wow.

Drouin
Shinkaruk
Burakovsky
Erne
Mantha

Anth93 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:38 PM
  #498
The Winter Soldier
NHL PLAYOFFS
 
The Winter Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: China
Posts: 45,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
A Good read. Very relevant here.

The Problem of Induction:

The problem of induction is the philosophical question of whether inductive reasoning leads to knowledge understood in the classic philosophical sense, since it focuses on the lack of justification for either:

1) Generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class (for example, the inference that "all swans we have seen are white, and therefore all swans are white", before the discovery of black swans)

OR

2) Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the Principle of Uniformity of Nature.
You mean this isn't a Best Center available thread?

The Winter Soldier is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:41 PM
  #499
KlattNazty
Registered User
 
KlattNazty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
I still really want to move some pieces to get into that 10-14 spot and take Nurse / Ristolainen. Like badly. Such a glaring need on defence for a mobile shutdown guy.

EDIT: This would be a simply incredible draft to reshape the franchise. We have some moveable and valuable pieces, really think it could be an avenue worth exploring.

Still not a fan of the lupul signing at this point, more so for timing than for anything else.

KlattNazty is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 12:42 PM
  #500
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
So Kessel is useless without other players, thus it means we should just cut ties and hope we can find a better player with a late first round pick? That's idiotic. I don't even get what the point of the logic is. Rebuilding teams don't trade away young players who have shown incredible potential, and been their best player.

It just goes beyond any logic for a rebuild.
You're either ignoring or not thinking about the most important point. If we trade Kessel we're bringing in valuable assets AND securing a very good pick in a very good draft. I said we need to find a goalie and linemate for Kessel. If Kessel decides he'd rather win (god forbid) and doesn't want to resign here next year, we lost an extra playoff run of value out of him.

Teams will part with good players for him now, but next year when he's up for free agency? Who knows what he'll bring, but probably much less.

The logic is that for the "RIGHT" trade and for the purpose of a proper rebuild. I'll trade him.

Anth93 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.