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Old
02-06-2013, 01:59 PM
  #26
Coolburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
i agree with most of what you typed up except for a couple of things. Strachan should and will get more then 850k plus more. Either with the panthers or with another team. He has shown great confidence and poise with the puck. I think he gets a contract sort of like weaver - 1.1mil - 1.2mil x 2yrs - 1way. I would rather have him instead of weaver or jovo.

Ellerby will not sign another one year deal. I remember last year that tallon and co. were going to give ellerby a long shot and told him this is a make or break season. I also remember them riding him hard on his exit meeting last season. I think his agent will push for at least 2 + 3 years, this is his big rfa signing. the amount of games he has played should give tallon a good window to see where ellerby is ranked amongst the team + depth. He hasn't done anything that warrants him out of the lineup. I wouldn't mind having ellerby back on board, I feel he has alot of room to grow. If a very lopsided good trade proposal pops up with him in the mix then i say we should pull it! But I say we keep him and let him grow. I would like to sign him to a one year "prove your worth" contract, but his time is ticking.

Skille is just not worth it. He is another booth - without the scoring touch. I would rather have bergenheim or smithson back than skille. Too bad he is wrapped up in drama. Skille has all the tools to become something greater but he doesn't think the game the way he should. He has awesome speed + energy and provides that push around the net, but he doesn't make any of the players around him better + he does not finish chances. I still have hopes for him.

Resigning smithson wouldnt be a bad option. He could play wing as well, plus has good faceoff skills, if the center gets kicked out he can take it. He hits, skates hard and adds grit. Plays a solid quiet game. Him and matthias would be a good 4th line combo.

i don't think that upshall makes the team worse by any means. His contract is pretty bad I admit. He does provide grit and speed and he has the capablility to score when given the chance. If there is a trade option that makes us better then i say pull it!

The thing that I cannot wrap my head around is next year's center position.

Weiss (if he resigns,which I hope)
Shore
Goc
Matthias/Smithson?

Where do you think bjugs will fit in the equation? (that is if he makes the team of course) . Move goc down to the fourth line?

Weiss
Shore
Bjustad
Goc
Bjugstad will start the season in the AHL just like Shore did. It'll give him time to adjust like Shore did and then he can be brought up later. Also, Matthias has looked better on wing than he has at center (he's not very good in the faceoff circle from what I have seen).

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02-06-2013, 03:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Bjugstad will start the season in the AHL just like Shore did. It'll give him time to adjust like Shore did and then he can be brought up later. Also, Matthias has looked better on wing than he has at center (he's not very good in the faceoff circle from what I have seen).
Goc on the 4th line would be crazy. He's already a 2nd/3rd line center. I agree with you, Coolburn, with as much as I am eager to see Bjugstad with the cats, I think it's more likely that he plays a year in the AHL.

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02-06-2013, 03:39 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
i agree with most of what you typed up except for a couple of things. Strachan should and will get more then 850k plus more. Either with the panthers or with another team. He has shown great confidence and poise with the puck. I think he gets a contract sort of like weaver - 1.1mil - 1.2mil x 2yrs - 1way. I would rather have him instead of weaver or jovo.

Ellerby will not sign another one year deal. I remember last year that tallon and co. were going to give ellerby a long shot and told him this is a make or break season. I also remember them riding him hard on his exit meeting last season. I think his agent will push for at least 2 + 3 years, this is his big rfa signing. the amount of games he has played should give tallon a good window to see where ellerby is ranked amongst the team + depth. He hasn't done anything that warrants him out of the lineup. I wouldn't mind having ellerby back on board, I feel he has alot of room to grow. If a very lopsided good trade proposal pops up with him in the mix then i say we should pull it! But I say we keep him and let him grow. I would like to sign him to a one year "prove your worth" contract, but his time is ticking.

Skille is just not worth it. He is another booth - without the scoring touch. I would rather have bergenheim or smithson back than skille. Too bad he is wrapped up in drama. Skille has all the tools to become something greater but he doesn't think the game the way he should. He has awesome speed + energy and provides that push around the net, but he doesn't make any of the players around him better + he does not finish chances. I still have hopes for him.

Resigning smithson wouldnt be a bad option. He could play wing as well, plus has good faceoff skills, if the center gets kicked out he can take it. He hits, skates hard and adds grit. Plays a solid quiet game. Him and matthias would be a good 4th line combo.

i don't think that upshall makes the team worse by any means. His contract is pretty bad I admit. He does provide grit and speed and he has the capablility to score when given the chance. If there is a trade option that makes us better then i say pull it!

The thing that I cannot wrap my head around is next year's center position.

Weiss (if he resigns,which I hope)
Shore
Goc
Matthias/Smithson?

Where do you think bjugs will fit in the equation? (that is if he makes the team of course) . Move goc down to the fourth line?

Weiss
Shore
Bjustad
Goc
That's why I'm so confused with some of the people that are so eager to trade Weiss. If he leaves in off season or is traded at deadline, we are bascially left with:

A career 2nd-3rd line Center in Goc
A career 3rd-4th line Center in Matthias
A one year Center in Shore or Huberdeau (depending on his growth)
And a rookie Center in Bjugstad

Does that concern most people?

Here's a list of UFA Centers at seasons' end:

Elias, Patrik C NJD 36 $6,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Getzlaf, Ryan C ANA 27 $5,325,000 2013 (UFA)
Ribeiro, Mike C WAS 32 $5,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Connolly, Tim C TOR 31 $4,750,000 2013 (UFA)
McDonald, Andy C STL 35 $4,700,000 2013 (UFA)
Antropov, Nik C WIN 32 $4,062,500 2013 (UFA)
Roy, Derek C DAL 29 $4,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Koivu, Saku C ANA 38 $3,800,000 2013 (UFA)
Cervenka, Roman C CGY 27 $3,775,000 2013 (UFA)
Lombardi, Matthew C PHX 30 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Cullen, Matt C MIN 36 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Zubrus, Dainius C NJD 34 $3,400,000 2013 (UFA)
Weiss, Stephen C FLA 29 $3,100,000 2013 (UFA)


PARROS!!!! CONVINCE GETZLAF TO COME TO FLORIDA if Weiss is gone next season.

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02-06-2013, 03:46 PM
  #29
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Bjugstad, Shore, and maybe even MacKinnon/Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm will all compete for the same spot in training camp. Shore has the inside track obviously, and a lot will depend on how he finishes out the season. Nothing is set in stone however. MacKinnon could play wing also. But we won't get MacKinnon, and we won't make the playoffs either, because the Panthers love to piss me off.

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02-06-2013, 03:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
That's why I'm so confused with some of the people that are so eager to trade Weiss. If he leaves in off season or is traded at deadline, we are bascially left with:

A career 2nd-3rd line Center in Goc
A career 3rd-4th line Center in Matthias
A one year Center in Shore or Huberdeau (depending on his growth)
And a rookie Center in Bjugstad

Does that concern most people?

Here's a list of UFA Centers at seasons' end:

Elias, Patrik C NJD 36 $6,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Getzlaf, Ryan C ANA 27 $5,325,000 2013 (UFA)
Ribeiro, Mike C WAS 32 $5,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Connolly, Tim C TOR 31 $4,750,000 2013 (UFA)
McDonald, Andy C STL 35 $4,700,000 2013 (UFA)
Antropov, Nik C WIN 32 $4,062,500 2013 (UFA)
Roy, Derek C DAL 29 $4,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Koivu, Saku C ANA 38 $3,800,000 2013 (UFA)
Cervenka, Roman C CGY 27 $3,775,000 2013 (UFA)
Lombardi, Matthew C PHX 30 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Cullen, Matt C MIN 36 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Zubrus, Dainius C NJD 34 $3,400,000 2013 (UFA)
Weiss, Stephen C FLA 29 $3,100,000 2013 (UFA)


PARROS!!!! CONVINCE GETZLAF TO COME TO FLORIDA if Weiss is gone next season.
Don't worry, Mystery Man X will walk onto the team in training camp and score 80 pts. next season while centering our top line. lol

No, but seriously, I agree with you it is a concern, however if we are out of the race at the trade deadline, it may be very tempting for Tallon to trade Weiss depending on the offers he gets(also if Weiss waives).

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Old
02-06-2013, 03:56 PM
  #31
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As far as buyouts go, I would use both on Upshall and Clemmer this summer. Upshall is a nice guy and all and he once was a good hockey player but we can use a better winger on the 3rd line next season and he's too injury prone. Whether they are freak injuries or not, doesn't matter. the dude gets injured every single season. We could also use some more size up front.

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02-11-2013, 12:40 AM
  #32
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Didn't know where else to post this so I figured I'd drop it here....

Of the bottom 23 players in the NHL for +/-, we have 5 of them on our roster:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...lusMinus&pg=23

Kuba: -8
Fleischmann: -8
Weiss: -7
Campbell: -7
Versteeg: -6

This is an incredibly alarming statistic. This is basically our first line.

Maybe it's time we consider breaking all 3 of them up? Flash is the only one scoring and it's not because of fantastic plays made by Weiss of Steeger. Normally I would be against it but those stats are alarming to say the least. Do they even play defense?

EDIT:And for Kovalev being such a "defensive liability", he's only sitting at a -2. I know that stats don't tell all, but when your team is a combined -76 through 11 games, -2 sounds pretty damn sweet.

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02-11-2013, 12:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Didn't know where else to post this so I figured I'd drop it here....

Of the bottom 23 players in the NHL for +/-, we have 5 of them on our roster:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...lusMinus&pg=23

This is an incredibly alarming statistic. This is basically our first line.

Maybe it's time we consider breaking all 3 of them up? Flash is the only one scoring and it's not because of fantastic plays made by Weiss of Steeger. Normally I would be against it but those stats are alarming to say the least. Do they even play defense?
I guess you can factor in that Weiss was playing hurt some of the time and Versteeg was out for a bit, but even when all three of them are there and healthy, something just seems out of sync. At least for me, they've been the least noticeable line on the ice when they should be the most. I'd say if things don't work out with them in the three games this week, try possible secondary combinations with other lines.

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Old
02-11-2013, 12:13 PM
  #34
CanadianPanther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Didn't know where else to post this so I figured I'd drop it here....

Of the bottom 23 players in the NHL for +/-, we have 5 of them on our roster:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...lusMinus&pg=23

Kuba: -8
Fleischmann: -8
Weiss: -7
Campbell: -7
Versteeg: -6

This is an incredibly alarming statistic. This is basically our first line.

Maybe it's time we consider breaking all 3 of them up? Flash is the only one scoring and it's not because of fantastic plays made by Weiss of Steeger. Normally I would be against it but those stats are alarming to say the least. Do they even play defense?

EDIT:And for Kovalev being such a "defensive liability", he's only sitting at a -2. I know that stats don't tell all, but when your team is a combined -76 through 11 games, -2 sounds pretty damn sweet.
Totally agree with all you said. This team has the ability to beat playoff contenders in 3-2, 6-3 and 5-1 decisions, battle hard for those one goal win games of 3-2, 4-3 while also battling back from down 3-1 twice and win..........BUT..........also lose games 4-0,4-1,7-1,5-2 and 5-0.

The fact is 5 of our 6 losses this season are by 3 goals or more. Our confidence gets depleted very quickly when down by 2 goals and then other times we can battle back and show resilience. I don't understand it all, we were well known for losing in OT more than anyone else last year or the team that barely squeaks out wins.

I asked before in another thread if people would adopt:

Flash - Shore - Huberdeau
Steeger - Weiss - Mueller

as our top two lines. We have a really tough part of the schedule ahead of us with games against:

Washington (has the confidence of beating us 5-0 on Saturday)
Montreal (has beat us 4-1 early on with several injuries, Habs have cooled off a bit)
Lightning (same situation as Montreal, team has cooled off a bit but beat us 5-2)
Toronto (Hit and miss team LOADED with toughness who grinds out wins)

Then 4 games against Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo who play skilled games full of intimidation capped off with 5 straight divisional games. These next 13 games will complete half of the season. If we are not hovering around .500 at this point or within 8-10 points of the division lead, this season will be a step back in the plan Tallon has for us.

We need this win against Washington tomorrow night, a 4-7-1 record with a 1/4 of the games finished is not a fair snapshot of what this team COULD BE.

I STILL BELIEVE AND STILL SEE RED, GO PANTHERS!!

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02-11-2013, 12:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Totally agree with all you said. This team has the ability to beat playoff contenders in 3-2, 6-3 and 5-1 decisions, battle hard for those one goal win games of 3-2, 4-3 while also battling back from down 3-1 twice and win..........BUT..........also lose games 4-0,4-1,7-1,5-2 and 5-0.

The fact is 5 of our 6 losses this season are by 3 goals or more. Our confidence gets depleted very quickly when down by 2 goals and then other times we can battle back and show resilience. I don't understand it all, we were well known for losing in OT more than anyone else last year or the team that barely squeaks out wins.

I asked before in another thread if people would adopt:

Flash - Shore - Huberdeau
Steeger - Weiss - Mueller


as our top two lines. We have a really tough part of the schedule ahead of us with games against:

Washington (has the confidence of beating us 5-0 on Saturday)
Montreal (has beat us 4-1 early on with several injuries, Habs have cooled off a bit)
Lightning (same situation as Montreal, team has cooled off a bit but beat us 5-2)
Toronto (Hit and miss team LOADED with toughness who grinds out wins)

Then 4 games against Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo who play skilled games full of intimidation capped off with 5 straight divisional games. These next 13 games will complete half of the season. If we are not hovering around .500 at this point or within 8-10 points of the division lead, this season will be a step back in the plan Tallon has for us.

We need this win against Washington tomorrow night, a 4-7-1 record with a 1/4 of the games finished is not a fair snapshot of what this team COULD BE.

I STILL BELIEVE AND STILL SEE RED, GO PANTHERS!!
Don't Flash and Huby play LW? Steeger and Mueller play RW? I tend to think of Flash and Huby as playmakers too. Steeger and Mueller are more the goalscorers. Well, Steeger is supposed to be, at least.

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02-11-2013, 12:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
Don't Flash and Huby play LW? Steeger and Mueller play RW? I tend to think of Flash and Huby as playmakers too. Steeger and Mueller are more the goalscorers. Well, Steeger is supposed to be, at least.
Ya the wingers shoot the same but the Center is the opposite:

Flash and Huberdeau are Lefties, Shore is a rightie
Steeger and Mueller are Righties, Weiss is a leftie.

Either way you look at it, players have to adapt, even Ovechkin has switched playing wings and in no way am I saying it's working but at some point you have to try new line rotations which Dineen has been lately. We haven't found "CONSISTENT CHEMISTRY". It's just like rotating the tires on your car right?

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02-11-2013, 12:43 PM
  #37
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It sucks from what i can tell from a quarter of the way through it looks like were not much better than .500 club once again stuck in that grey zone between playoffs and top draft pick; although people are saying this is a deep draft.

The question I ultimately have is when will we have the summer of the marian hossa addition? When will be the summer we shell out the big money to bring in the offensive star power needed to supplant and help out our young core of players that will help this team improve next season?

This summer will be interesting because many teams have to shed salary to be cap compliant. I just dont know if we will ever have that star forward acquisition this team needs so desperately.

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02-11-2013, 12:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
It sucks from what i can tell from a quarter of the way through it looks like were not much better than .500 club once again stuck in that grey zone between playoffs and top draft pick; although people are saying this is a deep draft.

The question I ultimately have is when will we have the summer of the marian hossa addition? When will be the summer we shell out the big money to bring in the offensive star power needed to supplant and help out our young core of players that will help this team improve next season?

This summer will be interesting because many teams have to shed salary to be cap compliant. I just dont know if we will ever have that star forward acquisition this team needs so desperately.
Been saying for a while now, Tallon should seriously consider going after Getzlaf even if he's asking for $7 million a season. This team is being built for the next 3-5 years and most times in sports, you have to spend money to make it. LA and Chicago are the two teams we COULD BE. Both built through the draft and added the right pieces in trades or FA signing and ended up Champions after years as "bubble teams". Our ownership group should realize this sooner than later.

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02-11-2013, 01:11 PM
  #39
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Been saying for a while now, Tallon should seriously consider going after Getzlaf even if he's asking for $7 million a season. This team is being built for the next 3-5 years and most times in sports, you have to spend money to make it. LA and Chicago are the two teams we COULD BE. Both built through the draft and added the right pieces in trades or FA signing and ended up Champions after years as "bubble teams". Our ownership group should realize this sooner than later.
I think its a dollar and cents thing. I just dont think our ownership has the money needed to pay the big time superstar yet.

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02-11-2013, 01:22 PM
  #40
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Tallon has a 5 year plan. What year in his Blackhawks reign did he bring in Hossa? Technically year 4? He's building a foundation right now. Let's see where we're at 2014-2015.

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02-11-2013, 01:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Been saying for a while now, Tallon should seriously consider going after Getzlaf even if he's asking for $7 million a season. This team is being built for the next 3-5 years and most times in sports, you have to spend money to make it. LA and Chicago are the two teams we COULD BE. Both built through the draft and added the right pieces in trades or FA signing and ended up Champions after years as "bubble teams". Our ownership group should realize this sooner than later.
Thing is that when Tallon built Chicago, he did it mostly via the draft and then 3 big trades (Sharp, then Havlat & Ladd) before they spent in free agency. In 07-08 when they missed the playoffs, Tallon had Kane as an 18 yr old putting up 72 pts, Sharp was putting up 62 pts, and Toews had 54 pts as a 19 yr old so he was able to trade for Havlat and then also trade Ruutu for Ladd. That set the stage for adding Campbell the following yr in free agency and led to them making the playoffs. The yr after was when they added Hossa but that wasnt Tallon's doing (he would've kept Havlat instead of signing Hossa, smarter move looking back IMO).

Tallon has already made a couple of trades to boost us like he did in Chicago (Campbell & Versteeg) and is probably going to wait to make another big trade. I also think the team probably feels like they are still one youngster away (most likely Bjugstad) from being ready to spend big money via free agency. So expecting them to spend money on a Getzlaf-type free agent right now isnt the right timing.

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02-11-2013, 01:31 PM
  #42
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Tallon has a 5 year plan. What year in his Blackhawks reign did he bring in Hossa? Technically year 4? He's building a foundation right now. Let's see where we're at 2014-2015.
what year are we in of this rebuild? 3?

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02-11-2013, 01:55 PM
  #43
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what year are we in of this rebuild? 3?
Tallon was hired on May 17, 2010 so ya we're creeping up on year 3. I know it's a dollar and cents thing with ownership but we traded to get Campbell who's at a $7million cap hit, I'd only want TWO of those contracts on a team, one D in Campbell and one F in Getzlaf or some other #1 center. I'd love it if we could keep Weiss under $5.5 million and sign Getz at no more than $7million a year.

The large contracts could work with all the young prospects coming up who aren't $3 million plus cap hits like Petrovic, Robak, Howden, Bjugstad and Markstrom. I'm tired of waiting for the next year to happen, Tallon needs a plan for the Weiss situation come April 3rd. A repeat of what Bouwmeester did to us would have me lose confidence in Tallon.


Last edited by CanadianPanther: 02-11-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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02-11-2013, 02:19 PM
  #44
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Tallon was hired on May 17, 2010 so ya we're creeping up on year 3. I know it's a dollar and cents thing with ownership but we traded to get Campbell who's at a $7million cap hit, I'd only want TWO of those contracts on a team, one D in Campbell and one F in Getzlaf or some other #1 center. I'd love it if we could keep Weiss under $5.5 million and sign Getz at no more than $7million a year.

The large contracts could work with all the young prospects coming up who aren't $3 million plus cap hits like Petrovic, Robak, Howden, Bjugstad and Markstrom. I'm tired of waiting for the next year to happen, Tallon needs a plan for the Weiss situation come April 3rd. A repeat of what Bouwmeester did to us would have me lose confidence in Tallon.
Plus, we have a lot of money wasted in Jovo, Kuba, and Upshall. That's 11 million that when it comes off the books could be put to better use.

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02-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #45
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Plus, we have a lot of money wasted in Jovo, Kuba, and Upshall. That's 11 million that when it comes off the books could be put to better use.
Couldn't agree more.

That is a first line forward plus a solid 2nd/3rd line scorer to add to this team. All of that money is so wasted right now. At the rate we are going this season I'd rather see one of the AHL kids up than watch Kuba fight the puck all night.

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02-11-2013, 02:31 PM
  #46
RainingRats
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Couldn't agree more.

That is a first line forward plus a solid 2nd/3rd line scorer to add to this team. All of that money is so wasted right now. At the rate we are going this season I'd rather see one of the AHL kids up than watch Kuba fight the puck all night.
Exactly, that's a first line forward in there at least. Other money will go to filling in the two d-spots, imo.

I think Kuba has been playing better with less minutes. He's expensive for what he brings.

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02-11-2013, 03:19 PM
  #47
Erick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
Couldn't agree more.

That is a first line forward plus a solid 2nd/3rd line scorer to add to this team. All of that money is so wasted right now. At the rate we are going this season I'd rather see one of the AHL kids up than watch Kuba fight the puck all night.
For what it's worth, that makes no sense considering your comments about Shore the other night.

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:32 PM
  #48
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Hossa was brought in after Kane and Toews were already established young stars and Chicago was on the verge of competing for a Cup. When Huberdeau, Bjugstad, and Gudbranson are ready to lead this team in 2-3 years I expect to see that big forward brought in from outside, if not before that. It's definitely not gonna be this summer though.

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02-11-2013, 11:35 PM
  #49
FrolikFan67
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i think getzlaf definitely resigns with anaheim imo, our amnesty buyouts will probably be used on jovo and upshall, and kuba will stay here this season, and most likely next season as well (or dealt at next years deadline), its only a 2-year deal and can still be a veteran presence on the backend, im fine with kuba-weaver as our 3rd line next season. players to keep would be huberdeau, flash, versteeg, bjugstad, those are the core guys right now id like to keep, would love to keep goc and bergy as well, but the other 4 are the safest, everyone else anything can happen, even weiss. itll be interesting to see what happens at center for us. we have weiss, bjugstad, shore (if he continues to impress and earns a spot), goc, and non of those guys would be playing on the 4th. with no weiss,we'd have goc along with a rookie and a sophomore, so unless we sign someone else to anchor the 1st for the time being in fa that would still give us 4 centers. goc may be the odd man out, but id really hate to see him go, i love how complete he is and his price alone makes him an asset. good on the faceoffs, good pker, nice hands, vision, little scoring touch, great defensively, and at only 1.7per he's like the perfect 3rd line center, he was one of my favorite players last year along with bergy.

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Old
02-12-2013, 09:57 AM
  #50
Laus723
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New defense pairings according to Goldie:

@goldieonice: #FlaPanthers switch d pairings Kuba-Campbell, Kulikov-Weaver, Gudbranson-Strachan.

I like Guds with Soup, but they gave up a few the last game. Hope Kuba can keep up with Soup, but maybe his experience will help with Campbell's rushes and such.

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