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Old
01-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #126
clefty
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Obviously he's failed to win out against the competition. What else are we supposed to do, carry nine defensemen?

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01-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
letang-depres
morrow-maata
bortuzzo-doublion (however you speel it)


what do we do with the 47 other first rnd dman we drafted in the first round? the 2nd pairing is basically pick any 2 dman.
Maatta and Dumoulin. No 'B'.

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Old
01-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
letang-depres
morrow-maata
bortuzzo-doublion (however you speel it)


what do we do with the 47 other first rnd dman we drafted in the first round? the 2nd pairing is basically pick any 2 dman.
The love child of Dumoulin and Bouillon?

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:06 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
question.

where do you see the D in 2-4 years from now?

lets say we only have letang and depres and you have 4 spots open. honestly did you draft all these 1st rnd dman for a bottom pairing role?
Not sure how they'd pair up but something like this:

Letang
Despres
Harrington
Morrow
Dumoulin
Bort

Very close:
Pouliot
Maatta

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:14 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Pretty surprised they kept Despres up after his performance in the scrimmage. I guess they feel it's his time and one of the others had to be waived to clear room. I thought it would be Lovejoy but it was Strait. I don't think it will matter much since both guys are pretty far down the totem pole and aren't likely to play much.
One scrimmage does not a full evaluation make.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:18 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't know if you mean me, in particular, but I've never advocated taking the BPA if it means all defensemen, all the time. In fact, I'd probably draft a winger in Round 1 every year with Crosby and Malkin on the roster...until we land a 60-goal man or 100-point man on either flank.
I wasn't targeting anyone. Just the common trends on these boards. It's just kinda funny is all.

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01-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #132
GermanTitov
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ill start off with "in shero we trust" but i have to say im frustrated. just looking into the future i see a need for 3 top six forwards and one guy to fill the role (bennett). and like 10 top 4 defenseman with at most 2 spots open (in the next few years)

love the kunitz-crosby-dupuis line but those 2 wingers are 33-34 years old.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:44 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
ill start off with "in shero we trust" but i have to say im frustrated. just looking into the future i see a need for 3 top six forwards and one guy to fill the role (bennett). and like 10 top 4 defenseman with at most 2 spots open (in the next few years)

love the kunitz-crosby-dupuis line but those 2 wingers are 33-34 years old.
...Neal?

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:54 PM
  #134
GermanTitov
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
...Neal?



im saying in say 2 years youll have crosby malkin neal, then a need for 3 top six forwards well 2 really if bennett pans out. with no one else in the system besides bennett to fill a top 6 role. top 6 dont come cheap they will most likely to have to be prospects and its a shame we dont have any in the system besides bennett. im not counting tangradi, i dont believe in the guy. maybe a 3rd line guy IMO

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:56 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
ill start off with "in shero we trust" but i have to say im frustrated. just looking into the future i see a need for 3 top six forwards and one guy to fill the role (bennett). and like 10 top 4 defenseman with at most 2 spots open (in the next few years)

love the kunitz-crosby-dupuis line but those 2 wingers are 33-34 years old.
How did we get Neal and Kunitz? Not saying it's a given that we'll trade a few Dmen for wingers but it isn't like we're stuck with these guys. It's not as dire as you seem to think

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01-17-2013, 05:56 PM
  #136
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What is going to happen with Ruopp? He's like the forgotten d-man.

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Old
01-17-2013, 05:58 PM
  #137
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What is going to happen with Ruopp? He's like the forgotten d-man.
Simple. We are going to ice 12 defensemen and 6 forwards.

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01-17-2013, 06:00 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
What is going to happen with Ruopp? He's like the forgotten d-man.
he made it into my poll.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:02 PM
  #139
GermanTitov
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
How did we get Neal and Kunitz? Not saying it's a given that we'll trade a few Dmen for wingers but it isn't like we're stuck with these guys. It's not as dire as you seem to think


i hear ya, but those guys came with a 3 million dollar cap hit. itd be nice to have some in the system who can produce for a few years at 500-800k especially with a lower cap under the new CBA. at this point shero can trade his Dman for the forwards he should have drafted in the first place lol. seriously though id feel alot better if shero started drafting some forwards.

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01-17-2013, 06:26 PM
  #140
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hopefully shero can pull off some magic


Last edited by GermanTitov: 01-17-2013 at 06:29 PM. Reason: wrong post
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Old
01-17-2013, 06:47 PM
  #141
SEALBound
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Easy:

Letang-Crosby-Bennett
Despres-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Sutter-Tangradi
Pouliot-Vitale-Adams

Orpik-Niskanen
Maatta-Harrington
Bortuzzo-Dumoulin

MAF
Zatkoff

Pretty close, imho. This has to be what Shero and DB have been thinking drafting all these dmen.

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Old
01-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #142
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Maybe they're going to use these guys as trade bait?

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:00 PM
  #143
GermanTitov
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Maybe they're going to use these guys as trade bait?
so either shero will trade for the guys he should have drafted in the first place or they will come with a high cap hit. maybe not a HIGH cap hit but 3 times as much as an entry level cap hit.

trade bait is all well in good but normally a 2-4 million dollar hit comes back in return instead of not have to worry about it and plugging in pedigree in your system. which we dont have besides bennet

it just doesnt make sense to have this many 1st and 2nd rnd dman and only 1 forward.....only 1!

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:33 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I won't lose my mind either way, but I have to admit this is one hell of a post. I think this is where the frustration stems from.

Great call.
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Yup that is my issue with this as well. It doesn't matter if he's just a depth dman now. We used a 3rd round pick and spent years developing him and just when it's time to reap the benefits, we put him on waivers. This is likely to continue happening in the next few years.

Plus, Strait may not be flashy but he's very dependable so he's the perfect number 6-7 guy to have. Lovejoy may be a better PMD and have more offensive instincts, but has defensive warts and takes chances that you don't want your depth guys taking (or I wouldn't). So in the scheme of things, it's not a big deal if we lose him, but it's the philosophy of it that puzzles me.
Yeah, it's not the end of the world, but it should call into question why the Pens would even bother drafting the Straits and Samuelssons of the world in the early rounds if they're just going to scatter them to the 4 winds - regardless of how they develop - in favour of marginal vets like Lovejoy who don't even address any of our needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Obviously he's failed to win out against the competition. What else are we supposed to do, carry nine defensemen?
Most advocated trading Lovejoy.

Another soft-ish PMD is really the last thing the Pens should be adding to the blueline. Strait has progressed as well as we could have wanted since draft day and had shown himself a good shutdown defenseman at every previous level, so waiving him considering the needs of our team - before he had a chance to get his feet wet in the NHL - seems a waste.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:38 PM
  #145
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Maybe they're going to use these guys as trade bait?
The problem is they don't have much value until they actually pan out at the NHL level. People point out the Kunitz and Neal acquisitions, but those aren't quite comparable. Whitney was one season removed from a 40-point season, and only two seasons removed from a 59-point season. Goligoski has 37 points the previous year, and already had 31 points in the 60 games before the trade to Dallas. In both cases, the defensemen we traded to land Kunitz and Neal were already established NHL defensemen.

This is why I'm still skeptical when people point to our deep prospect pool of defenseman and say "we'll just trade them like we did Whitney or Goligoski" whenever someone mentions a hole in our top six winger position, because before than can happen, those prospects will actually have to make the NHL first, and establish themselves as legitimate NHL players, not just good prospects.

Having guys like Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, Maatta, etc. is great for our system and could potentially be trade assets ... if they pan out. But until they prove they're living up to their potential, they're not worth anything close to what Whitney or Goligoski were at the time those two were traded.

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01-17-2013, 07:44 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Easy:

Letang-Crosby-Bennett
Despres-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Sutter-Tangradi
Pouliot-Vitale-Adams

Orpik-Niskanen
Maatta-Harrington
Bortuzzo-Dumoulin

MAF
Zatkoff

Pretty close, imho. This has to be what Shero and DB have been thinking drafting all these dmen.
We still have enough D to fill WBS and Wheeling. Why not? Let's do this.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:50 PM
  #147
Bennett Brauer
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The problem is they don't have much value until they actually pan out at the NHL level. People point out the Kunitz and Neal acquisitions, but those aren't quite comparable. Whitney was one season removed from a 40-point season, and only two seasons removed from a 59-point season. Goligoski has 37 points the previous year, and already had 31 points in the 60 games before the trade to Dallas. In both cases, the defensemen we traded to land Kunitz and Neal were already established NHL defensemen.

This is why I'm still skeptical when people point to our deep prospect pool of defenseman and say "we'll just trade them like we did Whitney or Goligoski" whenever someone mentions a hole in our top six winger position, because before than can happen, those prospects will actually have to make the NHL first, and establish themselves as legitimate NHL players, not just good prospects.

Having guys like Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, Maatta, etc. is great for our system and could potentially be trade assets ... if they pan out. But until they prove they're living up to their potential, they're not worth anything close to what Whitney or Goligoski were at the time those two were traded.
I agree but here's the thing.

I understand that the D prospects won't get you a solid return unless they pan out. But the exact same thing can be said about a winger prospect. The Penguins draft these defensemen, but they don't think about them being busts, they draft them thinking they will be good NHL defensemen.

It's too early to say they can be traded for established wingers, but the mindset right now is, these guys will develop in the organization and expectations are high.

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01-17-2013, 07:56 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post

This is why I'm still skeptical when people point to our deep prospect pool of defenseman and say "we'll just trade them like we did Whitney or Goligoski" whenever someone mentions a hole in our top six winger position, because before than can happen, those prospects will actually have to make the NHL first, and establish themselves as legitimate NHL players, not just good prospects.

.
That's what gets me. Only chance to get real value for these guys is to trade them after they have established themselves as NHL-caliber players. If you trade them as prospects, you're going to need a team in a rebuild that has a good, likely older, wing they're willing to move or you're going to have to settle for trading the d-man for a lesser player or take a chance on a younger guy.

Ryan Whitney was drafted in 2002 and turned into a winger in 2009.
Goligoski was drafted in 2004 and turned into a winger in 2011.

This idea of "welp, we have so many d prospects we'll just trade for forwards down the line" is the ultimate slow play. There are too many teams in the league for a team that is trying to trade a good forward to settle on getting a d prospect rather than a actual young, in the NHL d-man.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:56 PM
  #149
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Bennett looks like a lock for the top 6 next season if he can stay healthy and bulk up a bit. I'm confident Tangradi will pan out this season. I think we'll be able to find someone to fill in on Sid's RW this postseason. Beyond this season, we're set.

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:58 PM
  #150
clefty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Most advocated trading Lovejoy.

Another soft-ish PMD is really the last thing the Pens should be adding to the blueline. Strait has progressed as well as we could have wanted since draft day and had shown himself a good shutdown defenseman at every previous level, so waiving him considering the needs of our team - before he had a chance to get his feet wet in the NHL - seems a waste.
Everyone in the league has a Ben Lovejoy on their roster, there has to be almost no market for a guy like him. It is funny though when you see people rag on him incessantly about being terrible, then assume suitors are lining up to give us stuff for him.

Strait's been rather poor in the AHL, and obviously didn't have a good enough week to either jump Lovejoy or a win a battle with Bortuzzo. He'd be on the roster if he was good enough.

Really have a hard time with the progression argument given his sub standard AHL performances this season. He should be shutting that league down by now if he was progressing as well as possible.

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