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Two points: Last night's ugly game and Lupul's new contract vs Benn's

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01-25-2013, 12:27 PM
  #1
Syn3rgetic
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Two points: Last night's ugly game and Lupul's new contract vs Benn's

1. Don't sweat it , one ugly loss is bad but it doesn't anything the doom gloom suggest. Scrivens isn't a bad goalie, Leafs are fine going forward. It's the same thing every time. One loss and It's end of the season. We could go for 10 wins in a row and people will still say stuff like, "they aren't banding together" relax guys. Take a chill Pill.Comment about the bad game but not the team doing something fundamentally wrong.


2. Benn's contract is identical to Lupul's. Who would you rather have? Who's more valuable to their respective teams? Let's leave Lupul's injuries alone for now.

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01-25-2013, 12:31 PM
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I think if the Leafs had Benn, he would certainly be a valuable core piece of the Leafs roster. The term and number is the same but the circumstances are different because one guy was an RFA while the other was an impending UFA. I feel certain enough to bet a large amount of money that if Benn were in Lupul's situation of being an upcoming FA, Dallas would had to have given more money (and possibly term) and if they didn't, he'd easily find it elsewhere in free agency.

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01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
1. Don't sweat it , one ugly loss is bad but it doesn't anything the doom gloom suggest. Scrivens isn't a bad goalie, Leafs are fine going forward. It's the same thing every time. One loss and It's end of the season. We could go for 10 wins in a row and people will still say stuff like, "they aren't banding together" relax guys. Take a chill Pill.Comment about the bad game but not the team doing something fundamentally wrong.


2. Benn's contract is identical to Lupul's. Who would you rather have? Who's more valuable to their respective teams? Let's leave Lupul's injuries alone for now.
2. Obviously Benn (at least in my opinion), but they are NOT comparable. JAMIE BENN >>>>>>>>RFA<<<<<<<<<
JOFFREY LUPUL >>>>>>>>>UFA<<<<<<<

when will people understand the difference?

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01-25-2013, 12:34 PM
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It's amazing how some people on these boards value RFA contracts and UFA contracts the same way.

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01-25-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafski View Post
2. Obviously Benn (at least in my opinion), but they are NOT comparable. JAMIE BENN >>>>>>>>RFA<<<<<<<<<
JOFFREY LUPUL >>>>>>>>>UFA<<<<<<<

when will people understand the difference?
they wont and never will

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01-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post


It's amazing how some people on these boards value RFA contracts and UFA contracts the same way.
Negotiating power is a foreign concept to most, it seems.

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01-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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Agree on point one. Other have pointed out the issue with point 2.

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01-25-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
1. Don't sweat it , one ugly loss is bad but it doesn't anything the doom gloom suggest. Scrivens isn't a bad goalie, Leafs are fine going forward. It's the same thing every time. One loss and It's end of the season. We could go for 10 wins in a row and people will still say stuff like, "they aren't banding together" relax guys. Take a chill Pill.Comment about the bad game but not the team doing something fundamentally wrong.


2. Benn's contract is identical to Lupul's. Who would you rather have? Who's more valuable to their respective teams? Let's leave Lupul's injuries alone for now.
Chlll Pill? We've been chilled out for 8 years! 8 years of excuses - 8 years oh "oh well get em next time"

No offence to anyone but one game/10 games/48 games it shouldn't matter. This team has been nothing short of an embarrassement over the last decade. Taking a single night off - a period off - a shift off should be completely unacceptable. I dont' care if we loose every game. But we gotta show some compete. We gotta show that losing is no longer acceptable. Last night was another classic example of the complacency that has plagued this team - simple plays - taking a body - clearing the front of crease winning battles along the boards. You don't need a team of All-Stars to do this. Any AHL scrub is capable of performing these duties.

Mistakes will happen - but when you see the same mistakes over and over year after year - something has to give

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01-25-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post


It's amazing how some people on these boards value RFA contracts and UFA contracts the same way.
Makes your head hurt doesn't it?

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01-25-2013, 12:56 PM
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You guys are missing the point here. I know Benn is RFA and Lupul is UFA.

What I'm trying to make as a point here is that they are both paid 5.25m/5 Years. The amount of money they receive is a benchmark to their value to their teams.

Of course I know UFAs and RFAs are signed and evaluated differently. But it's not like Lupul rights were in the hands of anyone else but the Leafs, same as Benn's only dance partner were the Stars.

Fact is, 5.25M is 5.25M, and they were both resigned to their own teams. Here, let me break it down for you guys. If Benn was a Leafs RFA, would you still sign them both to the same identical 5.25M/5 Years deal?

EDIT: and for argument's sake, let's leave out cap space and injuries for now.

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01-25-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
You guys are missing the point here. I know Benn is RFA and Lupul is UFA.

What I'm trying to make as a point here is that they are both paid 5.25m/5 Years. The amount of money they receive is a benchmark to their value to their teams.

Of course I know UFAs and RFAs are signed and evaluated differently. But it's not like Lupul rights were in the hands of anyone else but the Leafs, same as Benn's only dance partner were the Stars.

Fact is, 5.25M is 5.25M, and they were both resigned to their own teams. Here, let me break it down for you guys. If Benn was a Leafs RFA, would you still sign them both to the same identical 5.25M/5 Years deal?

EDIT: and for argument's sake, let's leave out cap space and injuries for now.
Lupul CHOSE to sign with the Leafs. He could just as easily have walked this season.

Benn had no choice at all.

It was the Stars, or a trade if the deal couldn't be reached, or he had to hope that someone will offer sheet him for huge money.

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01-25-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
1. Don't sweat it , one ugly loss is bad but it doesn't anything the doom gloom suggest. Scrivens isn't a bad goalie, Leafs are fine going forward. It's the same thing every time. One loss and It's end of the season. We could go for 10 wins in a row and people will still say stuff like, "they aren't banding together" relax guys. Take a chill Pill.Comment about the bad game but not the team doing something fundamentally wrong.


2. Benn's contract is identical to Lupul's. Who would you rather have? Who's more valuable to their respective teams? Let's leave Lupul's injuries alone for now.
Not even close, Benn is a rising young star and a Centre which have more value than Wingers. Lupul has spent half the time on the injury list and this contract will be no different.

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01-25-2013, 01:13 PM
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Not even close, Benn is a rising young star and a Centre which have more value than Wingers. Lupul has spent half the time on the injury list and this contract will be no different.
Finally, an actual opinion.

I'd like to state that I agree. But in my opinion, is 5M the going price for bread and butter first liners nowadays? Especially with the lowering cap in the coming season, I find that a bit ridiculous. Lupul should have been around 4M and Benn maybe 4.5 if you ask me.

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01-25-2013, 01:22 PM
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Benn is an RFA, Lupul a UFA.

If Benn was UFA, he'd be getting a helluva lot more than $5m.

You cannot compare their contracts.

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01-25-2013, 01:37 PM
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Benn is an RFA, Lupul a UFA.

If Benn was UFA, he'd be getting a helluva lot more than $5m.

You cannot compare their contracts.
I couldn't care less about ufa or rfa, the best player is Benn and that's who I want on my team. Their will be 30 year old wingers coming off of injury shortened seasons for far less than 5.5 with the Salary Cap dropping. 26.5 for Lupul is incompetence personified, a gross signing that mirrors many others over the last seven years.

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01-25-2013, 01:40 PM
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Comparing Benn to Lupul is apples to oranges.

RFA <> UFA

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01-25-2013, 01:49 PM
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When Matt Carle gets 5.5, 5.25 for Lupul is a steal.

I can't fathom why you are comparing the two players. Of course Benn is better. Would there be anyone who would disagree?

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01-25-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn3rgetic View Post
Finally, an actual opinion.

I'd like to state that I agree. But in my opinion, is 5M the going price for bread and butter first liners nowadays? Especially with the lowering cap in the coming season, I find that a bit ridiculous. Lupul should have been around 4M and Benn maybe 4.5 if you ask me.
You mean finally an opinion that ignores facts and is on par what what you think.

These are not comparable, Apples to Coffee Cups

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01-25-2013, 02:00 PM
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zeke
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2012 Top UFA Contracts:

Parise: $7.6/13yr
Suter: $7.6/13yr
Semin: $7.0/1yr
Carle: $5.5/6yr
Doan: $5.3/4yr
Wideman: $5.3/5yr
Garrison: $4.6/6yr

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01-25-2013, 02:02 PM
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The reason people are pointing out the difference between RFA and UFA contracts is because the RFA contracts are negotiated with a lot less leverage compared to UFA contracts.

That means that Benn is worth a lot more than Lupul, but GM Nieuwendyk got Benn signed at a big discount because of the RFA status.

So if your question is, would you rather have a UFA LW making $5.25M or a RFA C making $5.25M, the obvious choice is always to take Benn. He is a franchise player. Lupul is decent, and not overpaid at $5.25M, but Benn's next contract is going to be $7M+ and Lupul most likely will be looking at pay decreases. There is no actual similarity between the two contracts or players.

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01-25-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Keeping it Blue View Post
When Matt Carle gets 5.5, 5.25 for Lupul is a steal.

I can't fathom why you are comparing the two players. Of course Benn is better. Would there be anyone who would disagree?
This, +1 FTW

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01-25-2013, 02:08 PM
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Not even close, Benn is a rising young star and a Centre which have more value than Wingers. Lupul has spent half the time on the injury list and this contract will be no different.
Jamie Benn

2011-12 (71 GP)
2/29/2012 - Missed 6 games (leg injury).
2/18/2012 - Leg injury, day-to-day.
1/25/2012 - Missed 5 games (appendectomy).
1/22/2012 - Appendectomy, injured reserve.
1/16/2012 - Appendectomy, sidelined indefinitely.

2010-11 (69 GP)
2/22/2011 - Missed 10 games (shoulder injury).
2/03/2011 - Shoulder injury, injured reserve.
1/26/2011 - Undisclosed, day-to-day.
10/21/2010 - Missed 3 games (concussion).
10/14/2010 - Concussion, day-to-day.

He'll see a lot more wear and tear before all is said and done.

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01-25-2013, 02:40 PM
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Benn's RFA, Lupul's UFA.

Gonna take more money to ply out those UFA years of Loops.

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