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01-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #101
Badger Mayhew
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I agree. I don't believe Nonis is the man for the job. It's great you guys are all in love with him. I too believe he is just another puppet for the new owners. Burke was an experiment, one that bit owners in the a$$ due to his demeanor. They gave him all the power and didn't like what happened in the end. Nonis will have to go through a bunch of red tape to get anything approved, hence his making it sufficently clear that he is going to be "patient"
Maybe if Burke had to go through "red tape" he wouldn't have moronic moves like the Kessel trade.

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01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
  #102
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You're one of those fans that loves the quick fix, the Connolly's and Lombardi's that make you good but not good enough to either make the playoffs or get a good pick, you love mediocrity don't ya.
Yea, the worst type of fan. They always have something to say but obviously don't watch the games.

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01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
  #103
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Don't get me wrong. I don't think Lombardi or Connolly are franchise players but replacing them with even more marginal players is not a good idea either. Gettting rid of them to make space under the cap to sign a player that will help the team for 5 years or so makes sense but I think the motivation is just to save money, not make the team better.
I don't think it's a money issue at all.

I think it's about prospect development.

If the kid's pan out, great.

If not, then we tank and get to draft another kid that will hopefully pan out.

Win-win scenario really.

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01-17-2013, 06:58 PM
  #104
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Well it just stops now cause you think it should? It obviously needs to continue whether you think it's been too long or not.
You really don't want to understand me do you? We tanked for 7 years but traded away two 1st round picks. Tell me how this makes sense? The only thing that did was to delay the rebuild. If the plan right now is to REALLY rebuild Nonis can show us his cards by trading Kessel/Lupul and getting some good picks. That's what I mean by not seeing the "plan". Waiving Connolly is not a plan and neither is a 4th round pick for Lombardy. That's pocket change, irrelevant.

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01-17-2013, 06:59 PM
  #105
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This article brought tears to my eyes.
adjust meds now

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01-17-2013, 06:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I don't think it's a money issue at all.

I think it's about prospect development.

If the kid's pan out, great.

If not, then we tank and get to draft another kid that will hopefully pan out.

Win-win scenario really.
I agree about giving the kids some ice time. But its not clear that's the plan yet. I guess we have to wait.

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01-17-2013, 07:01 PM
  #107
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Yea, the worst type of fan. They always have something to say but obviously don't watch the games.
Sorry, I watch the games, all the games. We can disagree though.

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01-17-2013, 07:03 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
You really don't want to understand me do you? We tanked for 7 years but traded away two 1st round picks. Tell me how this makes sense? The only thing that did was to delay the rebuild. If the plan right now is to REALLY rebuild Nonis can show us his cards by trading Kessel/Lupul and getting some good picks. That's what I mean by not seeing the "plan". Waiving Connolly is not a plan and neither is a 4th round pick for Lombardy. That's pocket change, irrelevant.
Well the kids are coming, Kadri was drafted back in 09 and is just now getting his shot. I'm not sure trading Lupul would be smart we need some sort of veteran presence on the club, Kessel on the other hand..it depends on what he's asking for. He has to improve the defensive side of his game like Kadri did.

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01-17-2013, 07:05 PM
  #109
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Maybe if Burke had to go through "red tape" he wouldn't have moronic moves like the Kessel trade.
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.

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01-17-2013, 07:05 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Well we can keep our first round pick this time...for starters.

Something we have a nasty habit of NOT doing when we miss the playoffs.
It's shocking that Burke didn't understand that a successful tank invovled keeping your picks .

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01-17-2013, 07:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.
His job is to know.

That's why he is a GM.

To know better than us.

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01-17-2013, 07:11 PM
  #112
DougGilmour93
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His job is to know.

That's why he is a GM.

To know better than us.
So now a prerequsite to being a GM is being psychic?

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01-17-2013, 07:11 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.
Kessel is a very good player that being said with the benefit of hindsight ofcourse it was a bad decision. It doesn't take a genius to see that. Did we make the playoffs? Is next season the last we have him under contract? It's possible he'll be gone and what will we have for 2 firsts and a very high 2nd? Nada zip not one playoff appearance no players and we blew 25 million. Today right now you don't think that was a moronic move?


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01-17-2013, 07:13 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.
Unforntunatly both of you were wrong and it cost the Leafs dearly . The difference between you and Burke however is he gets paid to evaluate the team and in the end his mistake cost him his job .

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01-17-2013, 07:13 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
So now a prerequsite to being a GM is being psychic?
Being able to assess the talent of your team and to speculate on it's ability compared to the rest of the league is a prerequisite, yes, absolutely.

And this has always been the case for any GM in any sport.

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01-17-2013, 07:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.
Look. There is no doubt Kessel is a star player. A real sniper. The question is was it premature for Burke to trade two first round picks to get Kessel. The answer is yes ONLY and ONLY if Kessel does not walk after his current contract. I think it is quite possible he walks. Although this is in hindsight, trading two first round picks for a superstar when you are one player away from being cup contenders make sense. Trading two first rounders and not making the playoffs by a mile for several years is utterly unacceptable.

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01-17-2013, 07:17 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Being able to assess the talent of your team and to speculate on it's ability compared to the rest of the league is a prerequisite, yes, absolutely.

And this has always been the case for any GM in any sport.
Exactly. Burky completely failed in properly evaluating his team. He was much moe than 1 Phil Kessel away from contending. Wasted two 1st round picks. The cleanup Nonis is doing right now can't fix that aside giving some of our prospects some ice time in the NHL. Some may benefit from that and be with us for some time.

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01-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
How was it a moronic move? You don't believe Kessel is a STAR player and a YOUNG one at that? At the time Burke had idea that our first 1st round pick would have been 2nd overall. He had no way of knowing. I assume he thought the players he was icing were capable of playing better and getting results. I know I thought the same as well.
No one can predict the future accurately, but you need to have some idea about it. At least as a NHL GM. Burke totally blew it giving away those picks. He had to understand that NHL doesn't work like NBA where a player can entirely change the team's outcome. For that to be fair deal, those two first rounders had to be low 20s at best.

Even Crosby himself couldn't have propelled that roster to playoffs. So, he screwed it up big time there. No doubt about it.

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01-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
So now a prerequsite to being a GM is being psychic?
I guess in your opinion a GM should never get fired because he's never accountable for his moves because he's not a psychic ?

You're either trolling or you're seriously butthurt over Burkes firing . Either way it doesn't matter because Lord Burke isn't coming back regardless of how much people try to spin his record here .

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01-17-2013, 07:22 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
No one can predict the future accurately, but you need to have some idea about it. At least as a NHL GM. Burke totally blew it giving away those picks. He had to understand that NHL doesn't work like NBA where a player can entirely change the team's outcome. For that to be fair deal, those two first rounders had to be low 20s at best.

Even Crosby himself couldn't have propelled that roster to playoffs. So, he screwed it up big time there. No doubt about it.
Very well said.

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01-17-2013, 07:24 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I guess in your opinion a GM should never get fired because he's never accountable for his moves because he's not a psychic ?

You're either trolling or you're seriously butthurt over Burkes firing . Either way it doesn't matter because Lord Burke isn't coming back regardless of how much people try to spin his record here .
I agree.

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01-17-2013, 07:25 PM
  #122
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I wish I had a proper opinion on Kessel. I think that if he improved his stats by another 10-15% people would be raving over Burke's trade.

I don't mind him here at all. But at the same time, I don't think having Seguin and Knight would have made much of a difference to this club either. The person that wins the trade is the team that got the best player. That has yet to pan out.

That said, if we let Kessel walk for nothing, I'm going to be extremely disappointed in the team.

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01-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #123
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Kessel is a very good player that being said with the benefit of hindsight ofcourse it was a bad decision. Does take a genius to see that. Did we make the playoffs? Is next season the last we have him under contract for? It's possble he'll be gone and what will we have for 2 firsts and a very high 2nd? Nada zip not one playoff appearance no players and we blew 25 million. Today right now you don't think that was a moronic move?
I think we'll get a great return for Kessel. If some how Kessel was able to walk away for nothing than that would be Nonis's moronic move.

If Nonis gets wind that Kessel isn't happy and he isn't going to re-up with us than we can deal him at this years deadline in April, or, at the draft, or during the offseason. We just can't deal him after the start of the new season, that's my understanding.

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01-17-2013, 07:28 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I think we'll get a great return for Kessel. If some how Kessel was able to walk away for nothing than that would be Nonis's moronic move.

If Nonis gets wind that Kessel isn't happy and he isn't going to re-up with us than we can deal him at this years deadline in April, or, at the draft, or during the offseason. We just can't deal him after the start of the new season, that's my understanding.
That is correct.

The precise day we can begin negotiating a contract with Kessel is the day his NMC kicks in.

Meaning, Kessel decides his own fate.

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01-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #125
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I'd only be okay with keeping Kessel if we get a 1C to play beside him.

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