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Sam Gagner vs Kyle Turris

View Poll Results: Who will have a better season?
Sam Gagner 239 48.19%
Kyle Turris 257 51.81%
Voters: 496. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:34 PM
  #326
Micklebot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dss97 View Post
Please re-read my post.

He was better last year, and that wasn't the point of my post.
I read your post, it was clear. I didn't argue that Gagner is improving aspects of his game (faceoffs included) because I agree. You did however say that Gagner is better right now at faceoffs. I think that is a stretch. If Turris had the same % of faceoff wins as Gagner last year, he would have won 6 more faceoffs than he did. 6. Not really a wide margin is it. It would be more acurate to say they are fairly equal in that regard.

You standing by your stance that Gagner is currently better is purely opinion, not really backed up by anything. The difference between last year them is statistically insignificant.

So when you put forth a statement that one player is definitively better than another in some facet in a thread about which player will have the bigger impact, and I see it as dubious, I'll call it out.

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:04 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Justin Schultz: 22 years old - 5 points.
Roman Josi: 22 years old - 16 points.

Yes, your argument that Kyle Turris will be a better player than Sam Gagner in the future is instantly bolstered by the fact that Justin Schultz has fewer career points than Roman Josi. Congratulations, you've just turned a gongshow thread into the worst argument I've ever seen on HFBoards
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
why even make proposals for Subban if he's such a headache? Oilers feeling generous in wanting to take our problems now?
Please don't turn a Turris/Gagner argument into a Subban thread. No one cares.

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #328
The Waffler
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Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post

Yes, your argument that Kyle Turris will be a better player than Sam Gagner in the future is instantly bolstered by the fact that Justin Schultz has fewer career points than Roman Josi. Congratulations, you've just turned a gongshow thread into the worst argument I've ever seen on HFBoards


Please don't turn a Turris/Gagner argument into a Subban thread. No one cares.
Stats.

Don't.

Lie.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:10 PM
  #329
Yeah15
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Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
Stats.

Don't.

Lie.
Yeah, because those statistics have everything to do with the argument at hand...
As another posted mentioned afterwards, that is a beyond feeble argument, because even though Gagner has more career points, he also has a higher career pt/gm average than Turris. Do you still not understand? So yeah, to quote an extremely d-bag post:

"Stats.

Don't.

Lie."

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:12 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post
Please don't turn a Turris/Gagner argument into a Subban thread. No one cares.
not the point. it was a counter argument to someone saying Gagner was better than Turris in every category; which begs the question why so many Oil fans are trying to get rid of Gagner in the rumor thread.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:17 PM
  #331
Yeah15
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
not the point. it was a counter argument to someone saying Gagner than Turris and every category; which begs the question why so many Oil fans are trying to get rid of Gagner in the rumor thread.
Because despite Gagner's skill, the Oilers would likely be better off with at least one big top 2 center. Obviously RNH is not going to be leaving town before Gagner, and it's also quite obvious that Gagner would not be a good fit on a third line. Therefore, some fans believe that it would be wise for the Oilers to deal Gagner away for help on the blueline if they were able to attain a big 2nd line center. You do realize that a player doesn't have to be struggling/worthless to be traded, right? Talented players do get traded when management believes it's for the overall betterment of the team. You've already mentioned in this thread that these Oiler fans are trying to get the moon for Gagner in proposals. Is that not a telling sign enough for you? They're not trying to trade him for scraps, they obviously feel that Gagner is worth quite a bit, completely voiding your argument that Oilers fans are simply "trying to get rid" of him.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:17 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
If you just look at stats, you answer like this. If you've seen his development, you would understand. Gagner has plateau'd. Turris is getting better.
This is perhaps the most ironic statement in the history of HF....

It's not easy bein' brown i guess...

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:19 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Some friendly advice. Stats of the past mean little when comparing 2 very young players. All you talk about is stats...which leads me to believe you don't watch sens games. You watch the highlights at night or in the morning and surf NHL.com stats. Gagners scored more goals in his career so he must have a better shot,right?
C'mon now. I'm the guy who posted a "good post" and i can tell you it's completely unreasonable to think stats are not going to be the focal point of an argument. It's an objective source and derived from the actual events, they are literally the most impactfull source one can cite in defense of their position.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:26 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post
Because despite Gagner's skill, the Oilers would likely be better off with at least one big top 2 center. Obviously RNH is not going to be leaving town before Gagner, and it's also quite obvious that Gagner would not be a good fit on a third line. Therefore, some fans believe that it would be wise for the Oilers to deal Gagner away for help on the blueline if they were able to attain a big 2nd line center. You do realize that a player doesn't have to be struggling/worthless to be traded, right? Talented players do get traded when management believes it's for the overall betterment of the team. You've already mentioned in this thread that these Oiler fans are trying to get the moon for Gagner in proposals. Is that not a telling sign enough for you? They're not trying to trade him for scraps, they obviously feel that Gagner is worth quite a bit, completely voiding your argument that Oilers fans are simply "trying to get rid" of him.
no, it's only telling how most fans have unrealistic demands and think their scraps could get them star players. while Gagner does have some value - seeing people think they could get Subban, Benn or O'Reilly is just funny.

funny how no one makes proposals to get Gagner out of Edmonton. that might be a little more telling.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:27 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dss97 View Post
If I've learned anything as an Oiler fan on HF, it's that pro-rated stats are irrelevant.
No doubt, especially in regards to Gagner.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:32 PM
  #336
Yeah15
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
no, it's only telling how most fans have unrealistic demands and think their scraps could get them star players. while Gagner does have some value - seeing people think they could get Subban, Benn or O'Reilly is just funny.

funny how no one makes proposals to get Gagner out of Edmonton. that might be a little more telling.
You're really stretching this. I highly doubt any non-troll Oilers fan has ever stated they could get Subban, Benn or O'Reilly for Gagner. Regardless, what those fans feel his value is worth has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, so I don't see why you ignore the majority of my post, and then argue this.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:53 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post
You're really stretching this. I highly doubt any non-troll Oilers fan has ever stated they could get Subban, Benn or O'Reilly for Gagner. Regardless, what those fans feel his value is worth has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, so I don't see why you ignore the majority of my post, and then argue this.
yes, i'm clearly the one strething this. let's face it, people never try to trade in scraps for something much better - ever.

they're the same fans you mention saying that they hold Gagner as having a lot of value - but now they're irrelevant. fancy.

by the way, i didn't ignore the majority of your post. i agreed with it. i believe the Oilers need help in the back end before they ever bother bolstering their center position.

facepalm away.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:56 PM
  #338
Yeah15
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
yes, i'm clearly the one strething this. let's face it, people never try to trade in scraps for something much better - ever.

they're the same fans you mention saying that they hold Gagner as having a lot of value - but now they're irrelevant. fancy.

by the way, i didn't ignore the majority of your post. i agreed with it. i believe the Oilers need help in the back end before they ever bother bolstering their center position.

facepalm away.
I'll say it again, what certain Oilers fans have to say about Gagner being worth in a completely different thread has nothing to do with this argument. I mentioned these fans because you had mentioned them, I only mentioned this to prove the point that your argument was actually working against itself. I never said myself that I believed they were correct in any way, mainly because it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:06 PM
  #339
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Voted Gagner, and I have no idea why, because it's easily Turris.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:10 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah15 View Post
I'll say it again, what certain Oilers fans have to say about Gagner being worth in a completely different thread has nothing to do with this argument. I mentioned these fans because you had mentioned them, I only mentioned this to prove the point that your argument was actually working against itself. I never said myself that I believed they were correct in any way, mainly because it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.
you're forgetting one thing, though: most of the arguments on this thread have nothing to do with what the OP asked.

i don't reckon seeing you say anything when people were comparing stats. which is funny, because the fact that a lot of Oil fans want to trade away Gagner for something better makes for a much better argument than comparing stats or who has the better linemates. things that have nothing to do with what the OP asked.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:28 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Applying that logic, Justin Schultz is one of the worst defencemen in his draft class.
Because he stayed and finished college? Yeah ok

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #342
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imagine a Gagner-Spezza duo, they would be 1-2 in scoring today.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:37 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
imagine a Gagner-Spezza duo, they would be 1-2 in scoring today.
Impressive seeing how Turris is outscoring Spezza and Gagner...

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:41 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
imagine a Gagner-Spezza duo, they would be 1-2 in scoring today.
Huh?

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:43 PM
  #345
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Turris looks like he could be a 2nd line center on a winning team.

I'm not sure Gagner gets the center gig on a team that could contend.

Not insinuating Ottawa is a contender. Turris isn't a reason they aren't though. Not sure the Oilers can say the same despite the fact there are more holes.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:03 AM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
Impressive seeing how Turris is outscoring Spezza and Gagner...
Actually... Sam Gagner has the same amount of points in 1 less game than Turris.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:48 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Actually... Sam Gagner has the same amount of points in 1 less game than Turris.
Not when I typed that. But yes, so currently Gagner and Turris have 7 points compared to Spezza's 5. Makes no difference that neither would be 1 and 2 in scoring.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:50 AM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimo44 View Post
actually... Sam gagner has the same amount of points in 1 less game than turris.
stats don't lie bro.

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:13 AM
  #349
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lol! Are Oilers fans still at this? Turris is better, get over it, let the thread die already...

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:17 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
lol! Are Oilers fans still at this? Turris is better, get over it, let the thread die already...
Gagner has the same amount of points in one less game.. Better PP/G

Your opinion is invalid because...

"Stats.

Don't.

Lie."



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