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Sam Gagner vs Kyle Turris

View Poll Results: Who will have a better season?
Sam Gagner 239 48.19%
Kyle Turris 257 51.81%
Voters: 496. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:12 PM
  #426
ATdaisuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
So you're in the minority. The majority of people think you're wrong.

I don't need to hear your whining about stats. The fact is most people who watch hockey with their eyes think turris is better.

You, watching the statline, think gagner is better.

Try watching turris before you argue against the majority. Maybe you're trying to be a hipster and go against the grain?

Turris has more untapped potential as well.

In before "but the majority of people thought the earth was flat...and they were wrong"
hey, i'm a sens fan too, but saying "we're right because the majority of people agree with us" is just as bad as saying "gagner will be better than turris this season because he has put up more points in the past." don't appeal to the majority to prove your point, you're whipping out logical fallacies.

edit: it's not only you, there have been quite a few sens fans who have said that in this thread. my spidy senses are also tingling with other parts of your post. you're not attacking the truthfulness of his argument...
didn't see the bolded, but what i'm saying is true.

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02-12-2013, 02:38 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by ATdaisuki View Post
hey, i'm a sens fan too, but saying "we're right because the majority of people agree with us" is just as bad as saying "gagner will be better than turris this season because he has put up more points in the past." don't appeal to the majority to prove your point, you're whipping out logical fallacies.

edit: it's not only you, there have been quite a few sens fans who have said that in this thread. my spidy senses are also tingling with other parts of your post. you're not attacking the truthfulness of his argument...
didn't see the bolded, but what i'm saying is true.
Of course it is!

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02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Of course it is!
want me to walk you through it logically, or are you okay?

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02-12-2013, 03:30 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by ATdaisuki View Post
want me to walk you through it logically, or are you okay?
Why should you have to do that?

And, i'm fine, thanks. How are you?

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02-12-2013, 03:56 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
So you're in the minority. The majority of people think you're wrong.

I don't need to hear your whining about stats. The fact is most people who watch hockey with their eyes think turris is better.

You, watching the statline, think gagner is better.

Try watching turris before you argue against the majority. Maybe you're trying to be a hipster and go against the grain?

Turris has more untapped potential as well.

In before "but the majority of people thought the earth was flat...and they were wrong"
You think i care if im in the minority.......... on HF? lol
Hipster? no the hipster thing to do atm is to pick Turris as he is the new fresh shiny toy, getting compared to a proven 40pt player and getting better as he is exceeding everyone's expectations this season.

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02-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Roooney View Post
What's been wrong with Turris as Ottawas number 1 center since Spezza went down? And Gagner as a number 1 center? A number one center would produce despite their line mates.
2 points in a lackluster performance by the team as the 1st line center against Columbus, that btw was the first opportunity of the season he was on the 1st line.

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02-12-2013, 04:17 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Jordan Godberle View Post
2 points in a lackluster performance by the team as the 1st line center against Columbus, that btw was the first opportunity of the season he was on the 1st line.
Okay Gagner plays a game where the oilers didnt manage a shot for 23 minutes or something ridiculous and come away with a 2-1 win against the Columbus blue jackets and it proves to you that he is competent? A game where he was 3rd among centers in ice time. But Turris who has played well in the absence of Spezza, I'm sure you are aware of this. Hasn't proven to you that he is capable of filling a number one role?

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03-05-2013, 01:40 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by TheSilfverBullet View Post
Can't wait to bring up this debate again in a few months.

Turris scores 40 points this season if healthy (68 point pace for full 82 game season). It's actually hilarious seeing so many people think Gagner is God's gift to mother Earth. Kyle Turris is probably the most under-rated player on the Sens roster and it'll show this season.
Bump bump

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03-05-2013, 02:21 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Bump bump
Turris is playing solid hockey. The entire team isn't scoring so meh on points, but still leading the team (and an injured Dman is leading in goals). Leading active forwards on TOI, while playing first line center for an injury filled team in the playoffs.

Gagner is playing well. Leading the team in points, just behind in goals (much like Turris). Playing 2nd line (more like 1b) center and doing fine, except team isn't in the playoffs.

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03-05-2013, 02:32 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
Turris is playing solid hockey. The entire team isn't scoring so meh on points, but still leading the team (and an injured Dman is leading in goals). Leading active forwards on TOI, while playing first line center for an injury filled team in the playoffs.

Gagner is playing well. Leading the team in points, just behind in goals (much like Turris). Playing 2nd line (more like 1b) center and doing fine, except team isn't in the playoffs.
Funny thing is why I bumped his post , is that Gagner is looking like the one to post over 40 points this season and Turris will not come close, also Gagner has been killing penalty's this season as well with same sh ice time a games as Turris and been on for one pp goal against. Gagner has out produced Turris every year of their Careers up to date , and the original op ? who will have a better season Gagner is winning hands down so far as in personal play. Goes to show how underated Gagner really is. And no slight to Turris.And midway through their draft years Gagner was ranked 3rd Turris 6th as a lot of fans pointed to this as Turris had better upside (taken 3rd). 6 years later it is looking like Gagner has the better upside.And bolded Gagner has 20 pts in 49 gf or 41% of Oilers offense Turris 13 for 49 or 25% of teams offense one has played 1st line C majority of season other 2nd line C


Last edited by Oiltankjob Fail: 03-05-2013 at 02:49 AM.
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03-05-2013, 03:25 AM
  #436
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Out of the 2007 draft members having breakout years (Voracek, JVR, Gagner) Turris isn't in the same offensive realm this year.

Voracek 23 games 25 points
Van Riemsdyk 23 games 17 points
Gagner 21 games 20 points

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Old
03-05-2013, 03:28 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Out of the 2007 draft members having breakout years (Voracek, JVR, Gagner) Turris isn't in the same offensive realm this year.

Voracek 23 games 25 points
Van Riemsdyk 23 games 17 points
Gagner 21 games 20 points
Check out their teams and who they play with as well. I doubt any of them would have the same pace if they replaced Turris on the Sens. There is absolutely no transition in this lineup.


Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 03-05-2013 at 05:39 AM.
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Old
03-05-2013, 08:49 AM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Out of the 2007 draft members having breakout years (Voracek, JVR, Gagner) Turris isn't in the same offensive realm this year.

Voracek 23 games 25 points
Van Riemsdyk 23 games 17 points
Gagner 21 games 20 points
You should take into account all the injuries the Sens are dealing have. Turris doesn't exactly have a lot to work with.

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03-05-2013, 01:02 PM
  #439
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hey, shocker! this thread got bumped!

let's see:

Turris is playing first line minutes in the toughest division in the league and while he's not putting up a lot of points - he's playing against the oppositions top lines and doing a fine job of it.

Gagner is playing 2nd line minutes in the weakest division in the league and while he's putting up a lot of points - he's still allowing more points scored against weaker opposition.

Ottawa currently has a playoff spot and is 6 pts ahead of the 9th place team.

Edmonton is currently 14th and 4 pts behind 8th.

do i even need to mention Ottawa's injuries?

anyway, it's clear that Turris is the one making more of an impact on his team.

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03-05-2013, 01:30 PM
  #440
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Turris making more of an impact to his team?

Gagner is one of the most underappreciated players in the league. Even if the Sens had Spezza, Michalek and Karlsson healthy, there is no guarantee he'd be matching Gagner's season so far. Fact is Turris has NEVER out produced Gagner, yet he continues to be ranked ahead of him. I think it's a little ridiculous. It's been 6 years since the 2007 draft, guys. We can stop rating off of potential.

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03-05-2013, 01:30 PM
  #441
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Turris is far more important, but Gags is btr

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03-05-2013, 01:38 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Turris making more of an impact to his team?

Gagner is one of the most underappreciated players in the league. Even if the Sens had Spezza, Michalek and Karlsson healthy, there is no guarantee he'd be matching Gagner's season so far. Fact is Turris has NEVER out produced Gagner, yet he continues to be ranked ahead of him. I think it's a little ridiculous. It's been 6 years since the 2007 draft, guys. We can stop rating off of potential.
this is the problem with some Oil fans - you base everything off of points. look at the division the Sens are playing in and look at the playoff spot they currently have.

it's great and dandy that Gagner has all these points, but it has NO IMPACT on his team. the Oilers are currently 14th in their division.

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03-05-2013, 01:44 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
do i even need to mention Ottawa's injuries?
Actually you kind of do since that is the only reason Turris is playing first line minutes... you make him out to be the guy who outplayed Spezza... as it is he is doing absolutely nothing with the extra time to drive offense... if stopping goals (a dubious claim anyway) is what he is good at... that makes him a third liner not a second or first... there is no argument to be had

Anyway... doesn't really matter... you can try and spin and nitpick the situations any way you like... Coyotes fans tried it too... we heard the same tired stuff trotted out... ooh one day he will be good ooh but his coach mishandled him ooh he scored a couple playoff goals he has intangibles

But the only numbers that matter career vs. career are these:

Sam Gagner- 387 GP, 240 pts (0.62 PPG)
Kyle Turris- 209 GP, 88 pts (0.42 PPG)

Gagner has out-played Turris in every season since 2007... both on an age vs. age basis and head-to-head... you can continue to trot out half-baked excuses... but actual numbers and facts will be thrown back in your faces... it's just sad at this point on the part of Sens fans... and I expect it from whatever fan base gets Turris next when you tire of him always almost breaking out...

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03-05-2013, 01:45 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
it's great and dandy that Gagner has all these points, but it has NO IMPACT on his team.


You are priceless... apparently it's up to you who has an impact and what points matter... sorry you're not that important...get over yourself

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03-05-2013, 01:46 PM
  #445
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I don't really understand how being more important to your team is relevant. So if Gagner plays for the Sens, he's more important? Do Sens fans vote for him?

Considering the Oilers are a team that relies on it's offense to win games and Gagner is one of only two forwards not having trouble producing on a consistent bases, and he's been the team's best center, you could make the argument that Gagner is more important to his team. Turris has played 2 more games and has 7 less points...and his team is still in the playoffs.

The Sens are 4-5-2 when Turris doesn't score. The Oilers are 0-4-0 when Gagner doesn't score...and yes. Gagner has only been held off the score sheet 4 times in 21 games this season.

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03-05-2013, 01:49 PM
  #446
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
this is the problem with some Oil fans - you base everything off of points. look at the division the Sens are playing in and look at the playoff spot they currently have.

it's great and dandy that Gagner has all these points, but it has NO IMPACT on his team. the Oilers are currently 14th in their division.
This is just terrible logic. Gagner has been our most consistent player. Out of the 20 games he's played, only 4 of them he hasn't had a point in. We've only had 6 divisional games so far, so that can be completely shot down.

You talk about Oilers fans looking at points, but then you look at standings and base your reasoning off of that? Give me a break. If Gagner wasn't playing so well I wonder where this team would be right now. On one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, Gagner being at almost PPG is unbelievably impressive.

I'm highly doubting that Turris is carrying Ottawa right now. I would have to give that to Anderson and Bishop. I think you know this as well.

This is like me saying Weber should have had the Norris last year because if you don't look at points, Weber has made more of an impact to his team being higher in the Standings and his all around game being stronger than Karlsson's.

Try again. Gagner has pulled away from Turris the past few years and this year even more so.

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03-05-2013, 01:50 PM
  #447
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good lord. you guys are thick.

listen, completely ignore everything i said and enjoy the season.

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03-05-2013, 01:51 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
good lord. you guys are thick.

listen, completely ignore everything i said and enjoy the season.
You're saying Gagner's stats are useless because the Oilers aren't winning

For the record. The Oilers are 8-5-4 when Gagner does score.

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03-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
good lord. you guys are thick.

listen, completely ignore everything i said and enjoy the season.
You want to try and give a reasoning as you did and then you won't even back it up? Weak.

You should've expected a few responses like that.

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03-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
You want to try and give a reasoning as you did and then you won't even back it up? Weak.

You should've expected a few responses like that.
read my, 'hey, shocker! this thread got bumped! post.

it's all there. there's nothing more to add.

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