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Sam Gagner vs Kyle Turris

View Poll Results: Who will have a better season?
Sam Gagner 239 48.19%
Kyle Turris 257 51.81%
Voters: 496. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-19-2013, 02:56 AM
  #126
Puritania
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Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
I love this. Every Oilers fan (we remember you from the past discussions, and EK threads, or at least I do) is all "Gagner so much better AINEC, lol Turris sucks offensively and defensively". Sens fans are "It's pretty close, Gagner is more proven and good offensively, Turris is better defensively and will probably be better in the future since he has improved and Gagner stays the same"

Someone on the first page (I think) said "Gagner is so bad defensively he was leading his team in +/-" Which is hilarious seeing how Gagner was a +5, while Turris was +12. (Even though +/- doesn't equal defensive skill).

Both of them are young 50 point second line centers. One of them is more proven, one of them is more raw (as seen by Gagner's seemingly stagnant point production and Turris' improvement).

Also for random fact. Turris is better at winning games than Gagner, and that's what matters. Turris has made the playoffs, and scored in them, proving he can win games. Gagner has yet to make the playoffs, proving he cannot make his team win games. FACT.

Personally I wouldn't trade Turris for Gagner, nor would I expect Edmonton to want to trade Gagner for Turris. They are pretty comparable.
What a silly post.

Yes, every single Oilers fan is all "Gagner AINEC, lolz" while every single Sens fan is all "Well it's close and we are being very diplomatic and respectful in every single way." Great start there bud.

You realize that Gagner was on one of the worst teams in the league right? Don't you expect that his +/- would be lower than someone on a playoff team?

Why don't we let Turris crack 30 points before we call him a 50 pt player. Half of a prorated season isn't enough to make that case yet.

Your fourth paragraph is just downright nonsense. Cam Barker has made the playoffs, and scored in them, proving he can win games. John Tavares has yet to make the playoffs, proving he cannot make his team win games. FACT.

Do you think if Gagner and Turris switched places last year things would be much different? Would the Sens have missed the playoffs and Turris would have dragged the Oilers to the playoffs all by himself? Nonsense.

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01-19-2013, 03:10 AM
  #127
Benny FTW
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Gagner isn't a 50 point player either...

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01-19-2013, 03:12 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Gagner isn't a 50 point player either...
I'm ok with that statement. If Gagner isn't a 50 point player with 47, Turris isn't one either with 29 points in half a season.

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01-19-2013, 04:06 AM
  #129
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8 points smart guy.
You guys are so gullible it's adorable.

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01-19-2013, 04:58 AM
  #130
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You guys are so gullible it's adorable.
This is what I'm talking about. All this is, is just trolling. No need for that crap in a thread. All Sens/Oilers threads should be immediately locked upon creation.

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01-19-2013, 06:05 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
This is what I'm talking about. All this is, is just trolling. No need for that crap in a thread. All Sens/Oilers threads should be immediately locked upon creation.
Well, this discussion amounts to arguing about potential, which is pretty entertaining.

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01-19-2013, 09:26 AM
  #132
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Cant believe Gagner is winning this, I guess that 8 point game is still fresh in people's memories.

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01-19-2013, 11:45 AM
  #133
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Cant believe Gagner is winning this, I guess that 8 point game is still fresh in people's memories.
Yeah the career 145 point differential has nothing to do with it.

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01-19-2013, 11:47 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
This is what I'm talking about. All this is, is just trolling. No need for that crap in a thread. All Sens/Oilers threads should be immediately locked upon creation.
How dare people argue and bicker on a hockey forum!

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01-19-2013, 11:48 AM
  #135
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Yeah the career 145 point differential has nothing to do with it.
Oh well in that case then I guess Gagner is better then Couture and Sutter as well.

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01-19-2013, 11:52 AM
  #136
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How dare people argue and bicker on a hockey forum!
Nothing wrong with arguing. Are you saying bickering is a good thing?

How dare I want people to respect each other!

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01-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
Nothing wrong with arguing. Are you saying bickering is a good thing?

How dare I want people to respect each other!
Then you don't know the definition of bickering.

Nothing wrong with arguing you say? Well bickering is a form of arguing, and has nothing to do with lack of respect for others.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bicke...ient=firefox-a

bick·er
/ˈbikər/
Verb

1)Argue about petty and trivial matters: "whenever the phone rings, they bicker over who must answer it".
2)(of water) Flow or fall with a gentle repetitive noise; patter: "the rain did beat and bicker".

Synonyms
wrangle - altercate - squabble - quarrel - argue

What i meant to say, and is fairly obvious by the word i used, was that arguing over petty and trivial matters is the norm on a hockey message forum.

Lack of respect is nowhere to be said by me...only added by you without reason.

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01-19-2013, 12:10 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Then you don't know the definition of bickering.

Nothing wrong with arguing you say? Well bickering is a form of arguing, and has nothing to do with lack of respect for others.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bicke...ient=firefox-a

bick·er
/ˈbikər/
Verb

1)Argue about petty and trivial matters: "whenever the phone rings, they bicker over who must answer it".
2)(of water) Flow or fall with a gentle repetitive noise; patter: "the rain did beat and bicker".

Synonyms
wrangle - altercate - squabble - quarrel - argue

What i meant to say, and is fairly obvious by the word i used, was that arguing over petty and trivial matters is the norm on a hockey message forum.

Lack of respect is nowhere to be said by me...only added by you without reason.
Without reason my ass, every Sens/Oiler thread turns into a flame war. I don't care what the norm is, I would rather have discussion than petty jabs. Linking a definition to antagonize someone is nothing other than a petty jab. This board should be better than that.

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01-19-2013, 12:50 PM
  #139
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This thread has jumped the shark.

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01-19-2013, 01:31 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
I love this. Every Oilers fan (we remember you from the past discussions, and EK threads, or at least I do) is all "Gagner so much better AINEC, lol Turris sucks offensively and defensively". Sens fans are "It's pretty close, Gagner is more proven and good offensively, Turris is better defensively and will probably be better in the future since he has improved and Gagner stays the same"

Someone on the first page (I think) said "Gagner is so bad defensively he was leading his team in +/-" Which is hilarious seeing how Gagner was a +5, while Turris was +12. (Even though +/- doesn't equal defensive skill).

Both of them are young 50 point second line centers. One of them is more proven, one of them is more raw (as seen by Gagner's seemingly stagnant point production and Turris' improvement).

Also for random fact. Turris is better at winning games than Gagner, and that's what matters. Turris has made the playoffs, and scored in them, proving he can win games. Gagner has yet to make the playoffs, proving he cannot make his team win games. FACT.

Personally I wouldn't trade Turris for Gagner, nor would I expect Edmonton to want to trade Gagner for Turris. They are pretty comparable.
I think you missed my post, where I said I liked both players.

I happen to like both teams. I'd love either or really.

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01-19-2013, 01:33 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
every Sens/Oiler thread turns into a flame war.
Why do you only blame Sens fans though? Because they dont have the same opinion as you?

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01-19-2013, 01:38 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Why do you only blame Sens fans though? Because they dont have the same opinion as you?
We do it too, I never said we don't. I just think you guys take it farther and harder than we do. I'd much rather both teams could be civil instead of at each others throats all the time.

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01-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
We do it too, I never said we don't. I just think you guys take it farther and harder than we do. I'd much rather both teams could be civil instead of at each others throats all the time.
Which makes me wonder why you click on the thread and then click on reply and then write a reply then click submit reply. You then rinse and repeat the previous processes several times. Then say you're dissapointed that every edmonton/ottawa thread turns into flame wars.

Why not avoid the threads if you KNOW it's going to happen and it bothers you so,so much that you think they should all be shut down immediately. Why participate?

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01-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by xking23 View Post
I love this. Every Oilers fan (we remember you from the past discussions, and EK threads, or at least I do) is all "Gagner so much better AINEC, lol Turris sucks offensively and defensively". Sens fans are "It's pretty close, Gagner is more proven and good offensively, Turris is better defensively and will probably be better in the future since he has improved and Gagner stays the same"

Someone on the first page (I think) said "Gagner is so bad defensively he was leading his team in +/-" Which is hilarious seeing how Gagner was a +5, while Turris was +12. (Even though +/- doesn't equal defensive skill).

Both of them are young 50 point second line centers. One of them is more proven, one of them is more raw (as seen by Gagner's seemingly stagnant point production and Turris' improvement).

Also for random fact. Turris is better at winning games than Gagner, and that's what matters. Turris has made the playoffs, and scored in them, proving he can win games. Gagner has yet to make the playoffs, proving he cannot make his team win games. FACT.

Personally I wouldn't trade Turris for Gagner, nor would I expect Edmonton to want to trade Gagner for Turris. They are pretty comparable.
If that was said it was by very few. I recall at the time of Turris' deal to Ottawa two things.

1. Many Ottawa fans being very disapointed in giving up a future Norris winner in Rundblad as Turris was just mediocre. In a week or two though he was thought of as a future star and Rundblad a bum. Turris of course we were all told has higher potential, after all he was the forward taken immediatly ahead of Gagner 5 years ago, so he must be better?

2. Many Oiler fans saying Gagner is much more established and has a far greater track record of success, therefore it ought to reason he's most likely worth more in a trade and the guy who it's much easier to make an argument for being better based on facts. Many Oiler fans still felt Turris has some upside, in fact i'm sure some even preffered him. I myself a Gagner supporter even proposed a deal for Turris while he was still in Phoenix.

Also why do "Oiler fans" or any fans get lumped together like that? It seems "Oiler fans" is by defenition whatever group of the fan base you disagree with or can attribute extreme statements to. Why? What about all the other Oiler fans? Why do we all have the same opinion according to you? You know that's not true right?

I find your Turris comments hilarious. That is not what "Sens" fans are saying, if we use the same logic you applied to "Oiler fans". Also how is Turris better defensively? You know they played almost the exact same level of competition right? They had a very similar zonestart ratio. Turris was +12 on a playoff team with Alfredsson as his running mate, Gagner broke even with lesser mates on a far worse team (which you oddly don't seem to understand how that affects +/-). You also should know that Gagner is in fact getting better defensively (gasp improvement!), he has not stayed the same (what nonsense). David Staples does an error stat (far from perfect but it's interesting) and Gagner has consistently improved. His +/- has consistently improved depite the team remaining poor. Also his production in terms of ppg is generally trending upwards despite less PP time, not that it matters much development is not always linear look at the Sedins, but yet he's not improving according to you. Anyone suggesting Gagner hasn't been improving is full of ****, even his most ardent haters on HFoil will tell you in the past few seasons Gagner has improved in all of these areas:

Strength
Speed
Defense

It's not even debatable.

Turris BTW is not a 50 point center, he had 49 games of solid production for the first time ever. Not only does that equal 48 points prorated, compared to Gagner's prorated production of 51 points, it's far and away his best sample size. Gagner has averaged a ppg better than that in nearly every season of his career (his sophmore/19 year old season being the only exception). If we took a stretch of the best 49 games for Gagner we'd get a ppg far far better than what Turris put up last season. Also you seem to love the idea that Turris is improving (apparently improvement can only be offensively and must be linear, who knew?) but you do know he seemed to be rather stagnant until being acquired by Ottawa right? That means that Turris only started "improving" 1 year ago, and if that's the case why is it too late for Gagner to do the same? If Turris can "improve" sooooo late in his career (really both players are so young improvment is likely for 2-5 years), why can't Gagner?

Turris is better at winning games is such a poor argument you really should be embarrassed. Yes it's Sam Gagner's fault that the Oilers are awful. You know that up until last season Sam Gagner could have been on his ELC still had he taken the route more travelled. Lets not pretend Sam Gagner is at the stage of his career where he should be propelling teams to winning records. Lets not also pretend that Turris was anything other than a supporting player on an Ottawa team who had numerous players outperorm him, and showed promise before he ever arrived. Neither player is the primary reason for their team's success or lack of it, only a fool would think otherwise.

Do you not understand how contridictory your last sentence was in comparison to everything you wrote before it. Are you for real?


Last edited by Eskimo44: 01-19-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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Old
01-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
What a silly post.

Yes, every single Oilers fan is all "Gagner AINEC, lolz" while every single Sens fan is all "Well it's close and we are being very diplomatic and respectful in every single way." Great start there bud.

You realize that Gagner was on one of the worst teams in the league right? Don't you expect that his +/- would be lower than someone on a playoff team?

Why don't we let Turris crack 30 points before we call him a 50 pt player. Half of a prorated season isn't enough to make that case yet.

Your fourth paragraph is just downright nonsense. Cam Barker has made the playoffs, and scored in them, proving he can win games. John Tavares has yet to make the playoffs, proving he cannot make his team win games. FACT.

Do you think if Gagner and Turris switched places last year things would be much different? Would the Sens have missed the playoffs and Turris would have dragged the Oilers to the playoffs all by himself? Nonsense.
You actually wrote far less but this may have been everybit as effective as what i had to say. That was one hell of a doozy post.

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01-19-2013, 02:37 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Oh well in that case then I guess Gagner is better then Couture and Sutter as well.


I won't even bother to rebutt this it's so utterly ignorant and shortsighted.

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01-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Which makes me wonder why you click on the thread and then click on reply and then write a reply then click submit reply. You then rinse and repeat the previous processes several times. Then say you're dissapointed that every edmonton/ottawa thread turns into flame wars.

Why not avoid the threads if you KNOW it's going to happen and it bothers you so,so much that you think they should all be shut down immediately. Why participate?
Yes being an agent for change of the better, what a terrible thing. You are right when you believe something is wrong you ought to just stand idly by and do your best to remain ignorant to it. Ignorance is bliss after all right?

But seriously, opposition to the things we disagree with is paramount to the establishment of a better culture. If you feel something is wrong part of being a man, part of having courage, is saying something to try and make it better. Your attitude is defeatist. Believing you can make a difference is essential to doing so, as is articulating that belief. To believe something can't be made better, or that we shouldn't try, is to all but eliminate the possibility of making it better.

The principality of such an attitude has led to many a terrible things. Even though we like to think things like these forums are irrelevent to our lives, our character is reflected in the things we write and believe, and if this is the standard of character we think we ought to embrace (one of indifference, one of defeat/acceptance) then we are going to be in a lot of trouble when real problems arise and when those problems require courage to oppose. Never accept a standard of intolerance just out of convinence, it's called being a coward.


Last edited by Eskimo44: 01-19-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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01-19-2013, 03:26 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Yes being an agent for change of the better, what a terrible thing. You are right when you believe something is wrong you ought to just stand idly by and do your best to remain ignorant to it. Ignorance is bliss after all right?

But seriously, opposition to the things we disagree with is paramount to the establishment of a better culture. If you feel something is wrong part of being a man, part of having courage, is saying something to try and make it better. Your attitude is defeatist. Believing you can make a difference is essential to doing so, as is articulating that belief. To believe something can't be made better, or that we shouldn't try, is to all but eliminate the possibility of making it better.

The principality of such an attitude has led to many a terrible things. Even though we like to think things like these forums are irrelevent to our lives, our character is reflected in the things we write and believe, and if this is the standard of character we think we ought to embrace (one of indifference, one of defeat/acceptance) then we are going to be in a lot of trouble when real problems arise and when those problems require courage to oppose. Never accept a standard of intolerance just out of convinence, it's called being a coward.
I don't see anything wrong with what's going on. That's why i'm not doing anything about it. Not because i'm a defeatist. Sorry bud. But great story.

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01-19-2013, 05:20 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Which makes me wonder why you click on the thread and then click on reply and then write a reply then click submit reply. You then rinse and repeat the previous processes several times. Then say you're dissapointed that every edmonton/ottawa thread turns into flame wars.

Why not avoid the threads if you KNOW it's going to happen and it bothers you so,so much that you think they should all be shut down immediately. Why participate?
Because I like discussing my team? Avoiding threads because people are awful on the internet is not something I will do. I'd rather try to appeal to sensibility than let the threads go to ****.

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01-19-2013, 05:34 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
SNIP

Do you not understand how contridictory your last sentence was in comparison to everything you wrote before it. Are you for real?
Okay first off, actually surprised my post got so many critics. Makes me realize that sticking a is very important otherwise people think bringing up playoff games and points is a legitimate point.

Okay so, to everyone. Read the last sentence, actually what I think.

Read the first few pages, read the first post (initial opinion post) of each fan groups people. It does (except for a few) consist of the Oiler fans that posted saying "Turris is bad and Gagner is better (or Gagner AINEC [And It's Not Even Close])" the exceptions being, with Gagner's line mates he can have a giant year.

Ottawa fans are saying "I like Turris more, Gagner has a better record though, but I think Turris can improve to be better this season", the exception being Mandyknowsall.

In fact here are some of the posts im talking about

Edmonton fan responses

Quote:
Should easily be Gagner but this is HF we're talking
Quote:
But Turris has "DAT DRAFT PEDIGREE YO"
Quote:
lol I hate Gagner but I'd take him over Kyle Freakin' Turris every time.

But go ahead guys, keep your no dimensional 20 point player. Let me know when he hits 30 points in a season.
Quote:
Turris hasnt done anything , other then be drafted higher, for him to be ranked above Gagner at this point.
Quote:
Kyle Turris is as much of a shutown centre as Ryan Smyth is a starting goaltender. Trying to associate him with Martin Hanzal doesn't help your nonsense.
Notice a trend in them. They are all talking more about Turris than Gagner. And yes there are good ones from less annoying fans. But those aren't the ones I'm talking about. Edmonton fans (all those quoted I am 99% sure they are Oiler fans) are talking more about the player they do not see regularly than the one they do. You want to vote for Gagner talk about him and his positives instead of anothers negitives.

Now the sens fans.
Quote:
Turris, not biased at all.
Quote:
I think Turris will be better. But I've got my homer glasses on. Even if I take them off, I think there is still a slight edge to Turris, just based on how he got continually better throughout last season AND really worked his butt off this year to put weight on, and what not.
Quote:
Turris isn't in pheonix anymore. At times he showed how good of a player he can be in Ottawa. just needs to work on consistency and its not like Sam gagner is mr. Consistency.
Quote:
No that's not it.


He's better on the ice, where it actually counts.
Quote:
29 points in 49 games with Ottawa. Its very hard to believe that Turris could have put up 1 more point in more 33 games.


Your next comment really shows how much you've actually watch Turris since he has come to Ottawa, he is one of the best 2 way forwards on the team, I'm glad you guys get so offended that anyone could possibly think that the players are close though, its makes me laugh.
Quote:
For wanting to get rid of Gagner is every trade proposal, Oil fans are sure defensive about him.

As for the poll, its close. Edge to Turris for his 2 way game.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67
See something here. They are all why Turris is better, instead of why Gagner is worse. Even if an Oiler fan says "Gagner is better offensively, defensively and looks better" that sounds much more respectful and dignified than "Turris sucks offensively, can't play D and looks like a disfigured gorilla after being run over by a train."

You see the difference. No not every Oiler fan is of the "hate turris" bandwagon. And not every Sens fan is of the "class and maturity" but god damn it, it seems like more sens fans are talking about the player they see than the Oilers who are trashing the player they don't.

And no this isn't every response, because there is a thread for rereading old responses. But it seems to me that in their first posts (which is what I tried to get, 1 post from each fan on the first 2 pages) the Oilers spend more time talking about Turris' weaknesses than Gagner's strengths while Sens fans talking about Turris and pretty much only Turris.

Now this is probably going to be taken out of context and read in the wrong tone. So I don't know why I am doing this...

OH and Turris scored so NANNYNANNYBOOBOO WE WIN LOLOLOL (if you need this than I actually feel bad for you)

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