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Meet #1 Replacement Player - Sidney Crosby

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Old
03-03-2005, 11:58 AM
  #26
Volcanologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Mr Jeff Carter , Mike Richards, have your agents call me next ..
Have you seen this thread?

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=132579

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03-03-2005, 11:59 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224
Crosby won't cross, the same as any player who thinks he has a legitimate shot at having an NHL career.
I dunno about this argument. If he thikns he has a legitimate shot at playing the NHL, isn't the owners not the NHLPA that need to want you to play there? And playing as a replacement would only make the owners like him more as a player.

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03-03-2005, 12:05 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
I dunno about this argument. If he thikns he has a legitimate shot at playing the NHL, isn't the owners not the NHLPA that need to want you to play there? And playing as a replacement would only make the owners like him more as a player.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Do you think that any team won't like him as a player if he doesn't become a replacement player? if so, that's absurd.

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03-03-2005, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
..."The Department of Labor and Immigration under Homeland Security have always said that if there is a labor dispute, they would freeze the process," Avirom said. "In other words, new people who want to play in a sport where they don't have visas, they won't get a visa while the dispute is going on."
Where would the bulk of prospective replacement players come from? The AHL, the ECHL etc... the players in those leagues that are foreign nationals already have the visas in place to play hockey.

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03-03-2005, 12:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Thanks

I am tired of fighing that battle with Flyers ..

Replacement players can be anyone and everyone that is not in the NHLPA currently ..

And US immigration laws suggest that a Canadian born player can't play in the USA during a labour dispute under Homeland security act .. put in place after 911 ..

Also Carter's agent has considered going to court to get his client ruled a UFA if not signed by June 1, 2005

Mr Daly is also a little misinformed as well as Jeff Carter signing with Philly is optional and not manditory ..and under the old CBA he would have re-entered the draft had he not signed, and NO CBA means NO DRAFT so again UFA ..

and the final clincher that the NHL does not see coming as they do not know Mr Goodenow master plan ..

First Mr. Goodenow will start off with this chaos as I suggest and endorse the Leafs Signing Crosby ..

Then as the NHL attempts to shove its CBA down his throat and open with replacements ..

Goodenow is going to send his little soildiers 3rd and 4th liners across his own Strike lines in order to get them the best deal they can for themselves .. These are the guys currently making under 700 K .. etc ..

Once it looks like the NHLPA is caving into Betttman and replacement players working ... he is going to play his Final Trump card ... he will never Accept a Cap with linkage IMO and then will then unleash Hell on the NHL by de-certifying the union ..

What this causes is that the "SO CALLED" CBA in place by the NHL to be null and void as it was bound to the NHLPA, which no longer exists ,including Mr Carters Rights..

This makes everyone of his Prize Clients Sakic and Brodeur and Sundin etc all instantly UFA's .. so every remaining member that has not crossed a picket line is FREE .. and watch now how the GM's try to contain themselves when Kovalchuk, Heatley, Iginla, Nash, Ovechkin, Carter, join the big boys on the UFA Market ..

Hard Cap .. not hardly ..

The reason he will decertify is that it will allow each one on the big money clients to Sue the NHL and get in anti-trust cases 3 times the difference ..

Check this out .. : http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=9941

"At the other end, the NHL Players' Association could potentially pull some good trump cards of its own - strike or decertification.
Under a strike scenario, the union simply won't accept the new work rules and walk out. They would gamble that fans wouldn't flock back into arenas to watch non-regulars dressed in NHL uniforms.

The other option is for NHLPA members voting to decertify the NHLPA as their representative body. That way, the new framework of the CBA would not be applicable to them. Simply put, you can't have new labour practices applying to members of a union if that union doesn't exist anymore.

This specific process will essentially fragment the union's former membership. Decertified players who think they can make better money under a new CBA could head back to work, while players who take a financial hit from the new CBA could sue the league under anti-trust laws. If 'Hockey Player X' made $9 million US under the old deal, and only $6 million US because of restrictions - whether it be a salary cap, luxury tax, or re-vamped salary arbitration - under a new deal, he could seek damages for as much as three times the difference. "

And I am not making this up either ..

The NBA and the NFL in particular followed this exact path ..

The NFL declared impasse in 1994-95 implemented its replacement players .. Joe Montana crossed the lines back then... but the NFLPA de-certified in the process and the NFL played for a while with no CBA in place as it was now voided .. Many Many NFL players filed anti-trust suits against the NFL .. once the US courts started awarding the Rewards and payouts in the millions 3 times what the player lost due to the NFL original inforced CBA .The NFL came crawling back and the NFLPA simply just formed a new Union again and the sides got a new CBA worked out that was very pleasing to the Players ..

History has a way of repeating itself and on the Fan 590 yesterday .. On the Bob McCowan show they had an Anti-trust lawyer that is employed by Sports Illistrated on that said Goodenow may already have been in contact with the same lawyers that won the NFL players their rewards .. to help him and his players should they need their services.. and the labour lawyer said this was Goodenow best play ..


Last edited by Mess: 03-03-2005 at 12:52 PM.
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Old
03-03-2005, 12:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnigan
Just one small point, and I don't think you are going to like it, but I am a Hab fan.
Thats okay .. I will not hold that against you .. Just that you used the Nashville example ..

However the habs might me in a great position .. in fact .. They may not get Crosby but .. a player like Steve Bernier unsigned by SJ could be good replace player and the Habs could go after a couple of top ranked French Canadian players in the Q as Replacement players like ... Alex Bourret & Guillaume Latendresse..for example

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03-03-2005, 01:21 PM
  #32
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ACC1224: Crosby may be the best exmaple of that, but I don' tsee why a young player would want to side with the NHLPA when they know its the owners they will have to play for sooner or later.

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03-03-2005, 01:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
ACC1224: Crosby may be the best exmaple of that, but I don' tsee why a young player would want to side with the NHLPA when they know its the owners they will have to play for sooner or later.
but it's the players they have to play with sooner or later

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03-03-2005, 01:29 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
ACC1224: Crosby may be the best exmaple of that, but I don' tsee why a young player would want to side with the NHLPA when they know its the owners they will have to play for sooner or later.
you don't play for an owner you play for your Coach and teammates.

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03-03-2005, 01:36 PM
  #35
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But the owner's sign the pay cheques. They are the ones the player's ultimatly have to come back to if they want to play in the NHL. I don't see why a young player would side against them before they ever get their foot in the door.

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03-03-2005, 01:39 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
But the owner's sign the pay cheques. They are the ones the player's ultimatly have to come back to if they want to play in the NHL. I don't see why a young player would side against them before they ever get their foot in the door.
because they are going to be part of a union that is in a dispute with the owners. They aren't going to become part of the "owners club", they will be union members, along side of the current players locked out.

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03-03-2005, 01:40 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
But the owner's sign the pay cheques. They are the ones the player's ultimatly have to come back to if they want to play in the NHL. I don't see why a young player would side against them before they ever get their foot in the door.
do you think any player who has a legitimate shot at making the NHL will be blackballed by owners for not being a replacement player?

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Old
03-03-2005, 01:49 PM
  #38
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ACC1224: Depends on the player, which is why Crosby is a bad example of that. But lets say Ian White is in that position, if he doesn't go and play when the Leafs ask him he may make managment mad at him and that could hurt his career.

I'm not saying they are going to be blackballed, but it doesn't help them to side against the people they want to start paying them a lot of money very soon.

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03-03-2005, 01:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
But the owner's sign the pay cheques. They are the ones the player's ultimatly have to come back to if they want to play in the NHL. I don't see why a young player would side against them before they ever get their foot in the door.
Peer pressure could be a factor here. Every time I have started a new job I have had to join a Union. You have to follow the will of this Union despite your personal beliefs on an issue. If you are not a part of the union the owners of the company can walk all over you. I am not saying that they will, but they might.

I am certain that everyone agrees that eventually most of those locked out NHL players will resume play in the NHL. These players may not allow any "replacement players" who remain in the NHL the oppertunity to join their union Not being able to join the players Union would not be in the best interests of the replacement players.


There is also the fact that as it stands now, no current player agents will represent replacement players.

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Old
03-03-2005, 02:02 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
ACC1224: Depends on the player, which is why Crosby is a bad example of that. But lets say Ian White is in that position, if he doesn't go and play when the Leafs ask him he may make managment mad at him and that could hurt his career.

I'm not saying they are going to be blackballed, but it doesn't help them to side against the people they want to start paying them a lot of money very soon.
the thread is about Crosby crossing over

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03-03-2005, 02:05 PM
  #41
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There is also the fact that as it stands now, no current player agents will represent replacement players.
I agree with everything except this. When asked what he would do if Crosby crossed, his agent said he could no say.

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Old
03-03-2005, 02:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
I agree with everything except this. When asked what he would do if Crosby crossed, his agent said he could no say.
The NHL needs Crosby to win the Replacement player war though ..

If the NHL goes to replacements only 2 outcomes possible .. either the experiment fails or succeeds based on Fans and attendace ..

ECHL might work in the USA deep south as fans would not know any better in general being new more naive fans ..

However big market cities NY and Tor and Philly are going to need name players to fool diehard fans out of their money ..

Can you think of a better player .. other then Gretzky coming out of retirement to play for Phoenix perhaps ..

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03-03-2005, 03:03 PM
  #43
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Christ: Have you heard the sound bite where they ask Crosby's agent if he'd drop Crosby as a client if he decides to play as a replacment in the NHL? No agent of a star player would dump their meal ticket.

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Old
03-03-2005, 03:18 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ
Peer pressure could be a factor here. Every time I have started a new job I have had to join a Union. You have to follow the will of this Union despite your personal beliefs on an issue. If you are not a part of the union the owners of the company can walk all over you. I am not saying that they will, but they might.

I am certain that everyone agrees that eventually most of those locked out NHL players will resume play in the NHL. These players may not allow any "replacement players" who remain in the NHL the oppertunity to join their union Not being able to join the players Union would not be in the best interests of the replacement players.


There is also the fact that as it stands now, no current player agents will represent replacement players.
I guess that depends on how you interpret that .. If a current member of the 700+ NHLPA members want to cross and have his agent negotiate his replacement deal that is one thing ..

but in the case of Crosby ... he is not a union member or even have his rights owned by a NHL team ..

I think that threat was intended to keep the current NHLPA members and agents in line ..

CHL kids are a different story indeed .. IMO

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03-03-2005, 07:45 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emillie
ACC1224: Depends on the player, which is why Crosby is a bad example of that. But lets say Ian White is in that position, if he doesn't go and play when the Leafs ask him he may make managment mad at him and that could hurt his career.

I'm not saying they are going to be blackballed, but it doesn't help them to side against the people they want to start paying them a lot of money very soon.

Good point about Ian White.

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Old
03-03-2005, 08:02 PM
  #46
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ok, even if Toronto was able to sign Crosby as a replacement player, what would happen to him after a new CBA was reached?

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03-03-2005, 08:42 PM
  #47
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I haven't read every post and maybe this has been mentioned already.
If Crosby were to play during the NHL labor dispute i guarantee you he would be punished physically every shift he played for a long long time once the NHLPA members resumed their careers.The members that stood their ground would hammer him relentlesly.That would be tough for him to withstand as he's not a very big boy.

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03-03-2005, 08:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by leaflover
I haven't read every post and maybe this has been mentioned already.
If Crosby were to play during the NHL labor dispute i guarantee you he would be punished physically every shift he played for a long long time once the NHLPA members resumed their careers.The members that stood their ground would hammer him relentlesly.That would be tough for him to withstand as he's not a very big boy.
It's pretty clear Crosby can hold his own, he has proven that at every stage. He can dish em out with the best of them too...he just picks his spots.

And if those players are going to try and hammer him, they are not going to have much of a career. After a few lengthy suspensions, that will fade real fast.

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03-03-2005, 09:12 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
It's pretty clear Crosby can hold his own, he has proven that at every stage. He can dish em out with the best of them too...he just picks his spots.

And if those players are going to try and hammer him, they are not going to have much of a career. After a few lengthy suspensions, that will fade real fast.
Not sure what you mean.
He's never faced the big bruisers that patrol NHL ice.
And as far as suspensions go,body checking is still legal.

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03-03-2005, 09:27 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Why would be be a Hab .. He is not French Canadian .. he was born in Newfoundland .. Just becasue he is a Hab fan .. .
Uh, first of all, Sidney Crosby was not born in Newfoundland, and to ask why he would be a Hab is just silly. He's made it quite clear whenever he's been asked that he's a rabid supporter of the Montreal Canadiens, his father was a Montreal Canadien draft pick himself and to suggest that he wouldn't sign there if he were an UFA is just puzzling. Of course he would. If you were a UFA and a sought after player would you not sign with the Leafs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Montreal lost lots of money last season and needed a US owner Gillett to save them .. You think they can compete with MLSE money ..
Montreal lost lots last year? What does that have to do with Crosby? How much did they lose? And here' s the big question - what on earth does the nationality of their owner have to do with anything? How bizarre is pointing out their owner is American? What is that supposed to prove?

But funniest of all is saying how could they compte with MLSE money... Umm, do you even understand what a salary cap is? Give your head a shake - obvioulsy all signing bonus count towards the cap! Otherwise ever single big market team would load their contracts with fat signing bonuses and the complexion of the league wouldn't change at all. Duh.

That is beyond obvious and the fact that it needs to be pointed out is troubling. But then again, you think that Jeff Carter is on his way to Toronto too! LMAO!

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