I think he'd be adding offense in gradually. .....
Another great post. Adding to what we did good in a short camp seems like a good idea.
In hindsight I am a little surprised Oates seemed to throw the full book at them. Seeing Sarge on 3 on 2s is what we were told would happen, but does anyone think that is what we lacked? Its Green that we need active but I think Yzerman got inside his head. While he did try for a breakaway last night, he has a long ways to go to be the way we need him to be for our team to excel. Even in our monster offensive years under Bruce, we were very dependent on him.
I wonder if a very cerebral guy like Oates knows all the players limitations (in a week, doubt it). I think he should keep things simple for now. Blah blah blah blah shoot Blah blah blah blah umbrella may be all some may hear.
I agree that George needs to purge yet he only seems interested in letting free agents walk. He never finds fault with any of his own picks. He seems to disdain roster trades, and only adds and purges pending UFAs for the most part.
Another great post. Adding to what we did good in a short camp seems like a good idea.
In hindsight I am a little surprised Oates seemed to throw the full book at them. Seeing Sarge on 3 on 2s is what we were told would happen, but does anyone think that is what we lacked? Its Green that we need active but I think Yzerman got inside his head. While he did try for a breakaway last night, he has a long ways to go to be the way we need him to be for our team to excel. Even in our monster offensive years under Bruce, we were very dependent on him.
I wonder if a very cerebral guy like Oates knows his players limitations (in a week, doubt it) and keeps things easy to understand. Blah blah blah blah shoot Blah blah blah blah umbrella may be all some may hear.
I agree that George needs to purge yet he only seems interested in letting free agents walk. He never finds fault with any of his own picks. He seems to disdain roster trades, and only adds and purges pending UFAs for the most part.
Usually cerebral guys like that find complex play second nature and expect the rest of the roster to do the same. When the roster struggles to be that high IQ they have a hard time dissecting how to fix. "What do you mean you couldn't make the no look pass there? It's so obvious". That's why most good superskilled players make bad coaches and most good coaches were bad players or players who were good in spite of stone hands and low hockey IQ. This holds true in pretty much every single sport.
Based on Oates little interview snippet they aired between the periods or whenever is also sounded like he's taking a pretty hands-off role. "It's their show, I'm just here to advise". I'm gonna give it more games but not really what I wanted to hear. We need much, much more than advising.
Another great post. Adding to what we did good in a short camp seems like a good idea.
In hindsight I am a little surprised Oates seemed to throw the full book at them. Seeing Sarge on 3 on 2s is what we were told would happen, but does anyone think that is what we lacked? Its Green that we need active but I think Yzerman got inside his head. While he did try for a breakaway last night, he has a long ways to go to be the way we need him to be for our team to excel. Even in our monster offensive years under Bruce, we were very dependent on him.
I wonder if a very cerebral guy like Oates knows all the players limitations (in a week, doubt it). I think he should keep things simple for now. Blah blah blah blah shoot Blah blah blah blah umbrella may be all some may hear.
I agree that George needs to purge yet he only seems interested in letting free agents walk. He never finds fault with any of his own picks. He seems to disdain roster trades, and only adds and purges pending UFAs for the most part.
Before Green... we tried that with Gonchar. Remember Cote? How bout Mironov? Maybe a Dman ought to play D first, and if you can get any offence outta them, view it as a plus. You'd think we'd learn this... but we never do.
Oates is cerebral? I recall pointing out when he reduced himself to perimeter shots during his last days here, and our opponents quit playing him closely. I posted the observation on the ESPN board... (a week later, Locker quoted me on it). Nobody thought it was particularly bright play on his part, especially our opponents. It was the beginning of the end of him in DC, and none too soon.
I guess I agree with Halpysback: he should have played Hunter's style for a week or 2, just to keep some cohesion. Not doing so led to the team quitting/slacking in the 3rd last night.
And now, instead of installing something new... the wrenches will be out, so we can fix the basics. I just don't see that as cerebral.
Vogel was the one that said Oates is the most cerebral guy he ever covered.
In Oates's defense, he may have been given a directive to dump the defensive shell game. Immediately. Fans may have been emailing Ted making it happen.
Coaches with no resume no experience I think are more likely to make concessions. While George plays dumb and says he had no idea how Dale would coach, if true I expect he learned and discussed with Oates beforehand what he was going to do.
Its funny Dale ignored his players one on one, and Oates may well do the opposite. Never talk to the team, only chat with players.
Why do we always do things to extremes.
All D even our slowest should jump into plays? If its all a secret plan to get Green out of his shellzrman, maybe it will work out in the end. Look dude, everyone is doing it.
Vogel was the one that said Oates is the most cerebral guy he ever covered.
In Oates's defense, he may have been given a directive to dump the defensive shell game. Immediately. Fans may have been emailing Ted making it happen.
Coaches with no resume no experience I think are more likely to make concessions. While George plays dumb and says he had no idea how Dale would coach, if true I expect he learned and discussed with Oates beforehand what he was going to do.
Its funny Dale ignored his players one on one, and Oates may well do the opposite. Never talk to the team, only chat with players.
Why do we always do things to extremes.
All D even our slowest should jump into plays? If its all a secret plan to get Green out of his shellzrman, maybe it will work out in the end. Look dude, everyone is doing it.
They say that people who are quiet by nature are thought to be wise, and solid, whether they actually are, or not.
Oates is certainly the quiet type.
For good or ill, he's the coach. Guess we'll see what happens.
Lets fire GMGM. One game. All because of one ****ing game.
Its funny, Burke got fired, then 7 years later the core he drafted brought the team to the Stanley Cup.
Lets go ahead, lets do it. I would love to have to do deal with when our new GM still doesn't have any deals to be made and can't draft worth **** vs the one who turned Varlamov who didn't want to re-sign into Forsberg and some how Tom Wilson is turning out to be very good(boy was I wrong). Hell look at Barber, he just didn't have a good streak in the WJC, he is doing great in the NCAA.
Ovechkin should go back to left wing, there wasn't a single thing that looked liked an advantage for him being a right winger.
You really think someone would say that based off of one game? I think that is stupid.
Maybe it based off of this team never meeting its expectations. This core has come up small so many times one game could be "The straw the broke the camels back"
Yes this is only one game. And there is still a lot of hockey to be played. As our "Young Guns" are being lead into battle by yet another rookie coach.
For me its to soon to tell anything. Hockey is a game of speed and reaction. And right now it looks like the guys are thinking and not just reacting.
Its another season and they start fresh but never with a clean slate.
Another great post. Adding to what we did good in a short camp seems like a good idea.
In hindsight I am a little surprised Oates seemed to throw the full book at them. Seeing Sarge on 3 on 2s is what we were told would happen, but does anyone think that is what we lacked? Its Green that we need active but I think Yzerman got inside his head. While he did try for a breakaway last night, he has a long ways to go to be the way we need him to be for our team to excel. Even in our monster offensive years under Bruce, we were very dependent on him.
I wonder if a very cerebral guy like Oates knows all the players limitations (in a week, doubt it). I think he should keep things simple for now. Blah blah blah blah shoot Blah blah blah blah umbrella may be all some may hear.
I agree that George needs to purge yet he only seems interested in letting free agents walk. He never finds fault with any of his own picks. He seems to disdain roster trades, and only adds and purges pending UFAs for the most part.
He will never be the guy everyone hopes he will be. His number were system based and we will never see them again. We should have sold high years ago. As soon as it was clear his game dropped way off as soon as he was banged up at all.
It should have been Mike Green at his peak for Ryan Getzlaf. Getzlaf is what this team has been missing for years. He is not a huge fighter. And he will never take on a heavy. But he sure would have jacked someone up after Nick took the elbow last season. Or Hillen getting trucked the other night.
The best we can hope for is some more t-shirts from Brooks saying how made he is.
for me i wasnt that bothered about the loss. anyone freaking out over 0-1 in the standings deserves a slap. what bothers me at this point is paying $10m for such little production from one player. especially when that money clearly needs to be spent elsewhere, namely on the back end. ovechkin is not dynamic, he's not creative, and obviously he's sure as hell not valuable in the other 2 zones. that's an awful lot of pressure on his physical game and wrist shot.
the defense...well, i'll fill my glass to the half-way point and hope the "system" kicks in and the guys understand it sooner than later. not overly confident tho.
He will never be the guy everyone hopes he will be....
His number were system based and we will never see them again. ...
Why do you think that is, did injuries take a toll? Was he a a flash in the pan? Scoring goals in 10 odd straight games is no random thing. Norris mentions... was everyone fooled?
His success may have been system based to some extent but it is a team game and everyone elses stats were padded too. Offensive talent doesn't just come and go. Paul Coffey didn't forget how to skate and shoot. No one does. But our team struggled mightily anytime he was out. He was a key cog.
I thought his issue was deciding he wanted to focus on defense. Bruce said he begged Green to bring the O again. The change IIRC was timed with his Yzerman snub. Much like Poti did when he came here, who said he was never an offensive guy, he was just asked to do it.
No one wants the soft in the D zone tag, the proverbial 4th forward. Maybe they decided they didn't want to get WHOOPED out of town.
We expect offense and but they both just turned the O switch off. Its the price we pay for heckling our own offensive D men over the years.
for me i wasnt that bothered about the loss. anyone freaking out over 0-1 in the standings deserves a slap. what bothers me at this point is paying $10m for such little production from one player.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I couldn't care less about one game especially new system/team/coach and all but regardless this team will go as their best players go so all the moaning and groaning about Schultz's 9 minutes makes little sense to me.
As Ovechkin, Backstrom, and to a lesser extent Green and Ribeiro go so will go the Caps. Too many are not seeing that forest for the trees IMO...
When we win tomorrow, can we laugh at all of this doom and gloom
Never have I seen so much flipping out over the first game of the season with a new coach, new system, new players, new positions for some players
It's unreal
There would be doom and gloom on this board following a Caps' Cup win. Sadly, I think the internet has tarnished fans' enjoyment of the game. But that is another post for a different thread.
The human brain is still learning how to process the internet, and learning how to interact on it. You may be a message board vet but we are collectively cave men here, thinking doing so is largely anonymous. You can become something other that you are here.
The internet has given us a place to complain. Face to face, your friends would tell you to shut up. I am fine with finding faults for the sake of discussion, but I just like balanced posts. And people.
If the team looks like this come April then worry. Teams go through pretty big changes over the course of the season. Especially coming off a lockout those changes will be more pronounced.
New coach, new system, new positions, new players, all with less then one week of practice. Remember at the start of last seasons strong start we were destined for the cup all while Colarados first round pick was looking to be a late one. Things change, give it time. Sure it's not a good sign how we did against Tampa but in the end it could easily mean nothing
Why do you think that is, did injuries take a toll? Was he a a flash in the pan? Scoring goals in 10 odd straight games is no random thing. Norris mentions... was everyone fooled?
His success may have been system based to some extent but it is a team game and everyone elses stats were padded too. Offensive talent doesn't just come and go. Paul Coffey didn't forget how to skate and shoot. No one does. But our team struggled mightily anytime he was out. He was a key cog.
I thought his issue was deciding he wanted to focus on defense. Bruce said he begged Green to bring the O again. The change IIRC was timed with his Yzerman snub. Much like Poti did when he came here, who said he was never an offensive guy, he was just asked to do it.
No one wants the soft in the D zone tag, the proverbial 4th forward. Maybe they decided they didn't want to get WHOOPED out of town.
We expect offense and but they both just turned the O switch off. Its the price we pay for heckling our own offensive D men over the years.
Randy,
I won't speak in absolutes, as I sure some did heckle. But for the most part, I disagree with you: Washington fans have not spent the last 10 years heckling our offenceive D-man.
The fan-base has been extremely patient... we've continued to expand our presence: we've provided record sales numbers for the team.
From memory, I recall the pre-game pronouncements of Joe B, swelling with pride as we approached, and passed, 100 straight sell-outs.
The fans... have more done their jobs, and been more than patient.
And, it wasn't easy. As noted, despite the half-dozen different coaches we've supported, the players we choose follow the same skill-set, year after year. Much like watching all your tv shows with the same actors starring in each show, show after show... and year after year.
We're all familiar with Einstein's quote about performing the same actions and expecting different results.
That aside, let's not blame the fans, or deride them for wanting better. This has been going on for a very long time.
I won't speak in absolutes, as I sure some did heckle. But for the most part, I disagree with you: Washington fans have not spent the last 10 years heckling our offenceive D-man.
The fan-base has been extremely patient... we've continued to expand our presence: we've provided record sales numbers for the team.
/QUOTE]
Fyi, these are all absolutes. Even when you say, "I won't speak in absolutes."
We live in a world of facts. It is perfectly appropriate for you to speak in absolutes. In fact, it is the only appropriate way to speak about anything. To speak in non-absolutes is to speak gibberish.
As I see it, the Caps organization has painted itself into a corner. The have dedicated themselves to build a competitive team year after year but not a championship team.
The experience at a Washington Capitals game is, or was for awhile, a flashy and exciting one. We were awesome offensively. We have nice lights and audio in the building. But the focus is on how the team will play in the market (ticket sales, merch sales) and not how the team will win the championship. It's as if Ted and the gang think that luck is the critical element in winning the Cup. Not only luck, of course. He knows you have to build a competitive enough team to make the playoffs. But after that, this organization doesn't seem to have a vision. It's just: 'Make the playoffs, and hope for the best!"
I won't speak in absolutes, as I sure some did heckle. But for the most part, I disagree with you: Washington fans have not spent the last 10 years heckling our offenceive D-man.
The fan-base has been extremely patient... we've continued to expand our presence: we've provided record sales numbers for the team.
/QUOTE]
Fyi, these are all absolutes. Even when you say, "I won't speak in absolutes."
We live in a world of facts. It is perfectly appropriate for you to speak in absolutes. In fact, it is the only appropriate way to speak about anything. To speak in non-absolutes is to speak gibberish.
Dynamic absolutes.... we were discussing the static: that ALL or even a majority heckle our offenceive D-man.
When we win tomorrow, can we laugh at all of this doom and gloom
Never have I seen so much flipping out over the first game of the season with a new coach, new system, new players, new positions for some players
It's unreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgroban
There would be doom and gloom on this board following a Caps' Cup win. Sadly, I think the internet has tarnished fans' enjoyment of the game. But that is another post for a different thread.
Agreed on all counts.
People need to calm down. It's no different than Toronto fans planning their Cup parade every year they have a hot start and win 3 of their first 4.
It's the same syndrome that brings you the "this game is over" posts in the first or second period of games in the GDT.
BT what's your best guess on why Mike Green doesn't show much interest in offense the past 2 or 3 years?
Fans were whooping Brendan Witt less than 10 years ago. It has largely become politically incorrect to be inappropriate at hockey games, massively so compared to 25 years ago.
I am not saying Green is worried about our fans hazing him, but I think he has heard others talking about his game and he decided to not be our 4th forward. The way anyone hears everything now? on the internet. 20 years ago, they heard it at the arena.
