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Are we....tanking!?

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Old
01-18-2013, 07:17 PM
  #76
Pi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Does anyone know exactly how the lottery balls are weighted 1-14? A playoff bubble team technically has a chance to draft MacKinnon or Jones
They are still weighted the same but the restriction of moving up only 5 spots has been changed.

So for example, if a 14th last placed team wins the lottery, they pick 1st, not 9th.

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01-18-2013, 08:07 PM
  #77
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No, it looks like they're giving some fresh faces opportunities to prove themselves, which makes sense in evaluation terms and also because those AHLers are already in mid season form.

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:09 PM
  #78
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realistically we only need to draft one more piece. The #1 C.

the #1 G wont be coming from a draft, most likely it'll come randomly or through trade.

so yea a part of me wnats to tank in a centre heavy draft.

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Old
01-18-2013, 08:21 PM
  #79
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I have this hunch that they might exceed expectations, but then I take a look at the defense and goalies and am reassured of the tank once again. Still, I can easily see them drafting in the 7-12 range.

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01-18-2013, 08:25 PM
  #80
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I bet the Leafs starter gets pulled tomorrow night.

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01-18-2013, 08:32 PM
  #81
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i believe in scrivens

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01-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
This is what I've been saying. Don't tank, let see what this completely unpredictable team can do, with a new coach and system.
That's exactly what is going happen. The team is going to try to win every game. As they should.

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01-18-2013, 09:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
That's exactly what is going happen. The team is going to try to win every game. As they should.
I think when people say we are tanking, they are talking by virtue of having a young inexperienced team; more-so than throwing games.

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01-18-2013, 10:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Everybody is so focused on we need to draft a 1st line center like MacKinnon.

When the real story is we simply need to get a premium asset out of the draft to add to our cupboard.

Boston drafted Kessel then traded him. We know that story.

LA drafted Schenn and were able to trade him for a 1st line center in Mike Richards who just happens to play as their 2nd line center.

If the Leafs draft someone like Jones or Drouin and they end being the real deal. That means as a result we could trade a Lupul or Gardiner or Kadri or Grabo to fill that 1st line center or it might even mean we now have the cap space to sign a Getzlaf or trade for an overpaid player like Vinny.
We already have the cap space to add luongo, perry, and getzlaf without dumping any important players such as lupul, kessel etc.

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01-18-2013, 10:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HFX902 View Post
Ive watched him play for 2 years and played against him. Honestly leaf nation would eat him up. in the last 10 games ive seen him make more mistakes than anything. also do nothing in the WRJs id rather see drouin.
1 bad tournament and now he sucks? OK then

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Old
01-18-2013, 10:44 PM
  #86
philer Bozel
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
why do i get the feeling the leafs are going to do a lot better than ppl are predicting ?
Have you felt like this in the past 5 years ? If so MacKinnon here we come

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01-18-2013, 10:52 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
Have you felt like this in the past 5 years ? If so MacKinnon here we come
Miracle, we take the cup this year. Oh yes I said it, we are going to win the cup and turn the world upside down.

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01-18-2013, 10:56 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by threeGo View Post
We already have the cap space to add luongo, perry, and getzlaf without dumping any important players such as lupul, kessel etc.
No way we could add Luongo, Perry and Getzlaf without losing anybody valuable to the team.

Having Grabo, Lupul, Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Luongo, Perry, Getzlaf all making anywhere between the low 4 million up to in the 7 millions isn't doable.

If we had to lose Grabo or Lupul to fit in a Perry or Getzlaf I'm all for it.

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01-18-2013, 11:03 PM
  #89
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I wish some people would look at the bigger picture before making statements like this.

I don't think a team ever purposefully tanks as this doesn't look good on a GM's track recored (i.e. Burke). All the fans and owners want to see is growth, especially with the youth movement that is going on with our line up. As long as the team doesn't regress, our team is on track to sustained success.

In a cap world youth and cap flexibility are essential to winning a cup and this is the path that management is going on. You can just hear it in Nonis's words.

Young players can fetch good players from teams facing problems with either their internal budget (Atlanta trading Kovalchuk) or cap (Philly trading Richards, Carter.. Chicago's sell off after their cup run). They also leave us in a great cap position, so free agency is an alternative route that the team can use if the trade market isn't satisfactory.

During this youth movement it wouldn't be unusual for the team to struggle in a year like this. Draft picks will only add to the pipeline that we have built as Burke has built a sold foundation (just think about our prospect pool at the start of the last lockout). By the end of this draft we should be in an even better position.

We won't end up with a top 10 pick because we are trying to lose. We will end up with a top 10 pick because we are trying to win with a group of unproven players that we have developed and are continuing to develop. If we make the playoffs, even better. With trust in the scouting department we'd have no problem with a pick in the 15-30 range if that meant we made the playoffs. This is all in long-term plan, one which does not include losing.

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01-18-2013, 11:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
I wish some people would look at the bigger picture before making statements like this.

I don't think a team ever purposefully tanks as this doesn't look good on a GM's track recored (i.e. Burke). All the fans and owners want to see is growth, especially with the youth movement that is going on with our line up. As long as the team doesn't regress, our team is on track to sustained success.

In a cap world youth and cap flexibility are essential to winning a cup and this is the path that management is going on. You can just hear it in Nonis's words.

Young players can fetch good players from teams facing problems with either their internal budget (Atlanta trading Kovalchuk) or cap (Philly trading Richards, Carter.. Chicago's sell off after their cup run). They also leave us in a great cap position, so free agency is an alternative route that the team can use if the trade market isn't satisfactory.

During this youth movement it wouldn't be unusual for the team to struggle in a year like this. Draft picks will only add to the pipeline that we have built as Burke has built a sold foundation (just think about our prospect pool at the start of the last lockout). By the end of this draft we should be in an even better position.

We won't end up with a top 10 pick because we are trying to lose. We will end up with a top 10 pick because we are trying to win with a group of unproven players that we have developed and are continuing to develop. If we make the playoffs, even better. With trust in the scouting department we'd have no problem with a pick in the 15-30 range if that meant we made the playoffs. This is all in long-term plan, one which does not include losing.
Designed to fail by management as players want to win of course. It's really quite easy. Put an unproven goalie in net, toss in a bunch of goons and kids and let em have at it.

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01-18-2013, 11:15 PM
  #91
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[QUOTE=Ricky Bobby;57821339]No way we could add Luongo, Perry and Getzlaf without losing anybody valuable to the team.

Having Grabo, Lupul, Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Luongo, Perry, Getzlaf all making anywhere between the low 4 million up to in the 7 millions isn't doable.

JVR - Getz (8 mil) - Perry(8 mil)
Lupul - Grabo - Kessel
Kadri - Bozak - Kulemin
Komarov - McClement - Frattin

Phaneuf - Reilly
Gardiner - Gunnarsson
Holzer - Kostka

Luongo
Scrivens

With the buyouts

64.89... just over the cap without raises. Lupul or JVR would have to be traded. Need Grabo down the middle.

Not saying it's going to happen, just trying to highlight the amount of capspace that we have.


Last edited by LEAFSIN4: 01-18-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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01-18-2013, 11:18 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
Designed to fail by management as players want to win of course. It's really quite easy. Put an unproven goalie in net, toss in a bunch of goons and kids and let em have at it.
But what I am trying to say is we are not putting in an unproven goalie and a bunch of kids because we want to lose this year, or next year. We are putting them in because we want to win. We want them to get better and contribute to the team. Only way we can get this done is by letting them play and making adjustments wherever we need to. It may take time and we may lose, but at the end of the day we want to win. Tanking is purposefully losing... we are not purposefully losing.


Last edited by LEAFSIN4: 01-19-2013 at 12:05 AM.
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Old
01-18-2013, 11:22 PM
  #93
Ricky Bobby
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[QUOTE=superleafsfan;57822039]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
No way we could add Luongo, Perry and Getzlaf without losing anybody valuable to the team.

Having Grabo, Lupul, Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Luongo, Perry, Getzlaf all making anywhere between the low 4 million up to in the 7 millions isn't doable.

JVR - Getz (8 mil) - Perry(8 mil)
Lupul - Grabo - Kessel
Kadri - Bozak - Kulemin
Komarov - McClement - Frattin

Phaneuf - Reilly
Gardiner - Gunnarsson
Holzer - Kostka

Luongo
Scrivens

With the buyouts

64.89... just over the cap.

Not saying it's going to happen, just trying to highlight the amount of capspace that we have.
Teams carry 23 man rosters not 20.

Gunnarson, Lupul, Kadri, Bozak will all be looking for raises. Not huge raises but even half a million each is 2 million plus the 3 guys you forget at lets say 700K each for a total of 4.1 million difference between our calculations.

That D is also scary bad. Two AHLers in Kostka and Holzer plus a rookie in Rielly.

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Old
01-18-2013, 11:29 PM
  #94
thewave
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
But what I am trying to say is we are not putting in an unproven goalie and a bunch of kids because we want to lose this year, or next year. We are putting them in because we want to win. We want them to get better and contribute to the team. Only way we can get this done is by letting them play and making adjustments wherever we need to. It may take time and we may lose, but at the end of the day we want to win. Tanking is purposefully losing... we are not purposefully losing.
The Leafs problem is they have to many of the same guy. They are all at the same level so you have the infamous log jam. Only now are we starting to see what I would term real prospects. Rielly, Finn, Percy etc. coming in the future. Biggs and Ashton may be ok guys like that. The rest are sort of just 3rd/4th line types or just falling short of 2nd line.

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Old
01-18-2013, 11:46 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by HFX902 View Post
Ive watched him play for 2 years and played against him. Honestly leaf nation would eat him up. in the last 10 games ive seen him make more mistakes than anything. also do nothing in the WRJs id rather see drouin.
I've watched him and drouin a ton and it's close. MacKinnon is overhyped for sure but I'd still pick him. He has lots of learning to do and Drouin has a more complete game but MacKinnon will excel (Drouin was invisible at Top prospects and he was trying hard). At the moment it's really a coin toss between those two and I'd ****ing freak out if the Leafs got either one of them. Nate almost played better before he had Drouin as a linemate. Last year the puck was always going his way and now it's going to Drouin continually; i couldn't imagine a 5 goal game for MacKinnon this year. Drouin sets the plays and gets alot of assists but more often then not the more impressive assists and goals go to MacKinnon. It's like Crosby/Malkin redux.

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Old
01-19-2013, 12:17 AM
  #96
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Players like Crosby, Stamkos and Toews were all acquired through the draft and not via trade. That is the ONLY way to get your franchise players! No team trades these guys. Also, they were not drafted 20th overall or any of that, they go 1st overall!

If the Leafs are not getting a top 3 pick then your not getting that player! Plain and simple.

The Leafs need to do what Edmonton did and just TANK it for a few years and get their Crosby and Malkin.

The ONLY way to build a Championship team is through the draft. So start now!

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Old
01-19-2013, 12:42 AM
  #97
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I honestly think that we'll be better off with a young, hungry Kadri and a scrappy Komarov than a lazy Connolly and ineffective Lombardi. I don't see these moves as tanking moves, I see them as no brainer moves that make us better now AND give our prospects important experience for the future.

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Old
01-19-2013, 12:45 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Players like Crosby, Stamkos and Toews were all acquired through the draft and not via trade. That is the ONLY way to get your franchise players! No team trades these guys. Also, they were not drafted 20th overall or any of that, they go 1st overall!

If the Leafs are not getting a top 3 pick then your not getting that player! Plain and simple.

The Leafs need to do what Edmonton did and just TANK it for a few years and get their Crosby and Malkin.

The ONLY way to build a Championship team is through the draft. So start now!
I agree 100%

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01-19-2013, 12:55 AM
  #99
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Players like Crosby, Stamkos and Toews were all acquired through the draft and not via trade. That is the ONLY way to get your franchise players! No team trades these guys. Also, they were not drafted 20th overall or any of that, they go 1st overall!

If the Leafs are not getting a top 3 pick then your not getting that player! Plain and simple.

The Leafs need to do what Edmonton did and just TANK it for a few years and get their Crosby and Malkin.

The ONLY way to build a Championship team is through the draft. So start now!
the draft is not the only way.

of NYR core richards nash gaborik callahan staal and lundquivst only half of it was drafted.

Same can be said for LA Richards carter stoll brown doughty kopitar quick little more then half there sure but still huge parts of that were not drafted.

carolina Staal Staal Semin Ruutu skinner pitkenan ward less then half of that core was drafted

panthers almost none of that core was drafted weiss yes

the draft is great but the only way? that is wrong

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Old
01-19-2013, 01:00 AM
  #100
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This is Nonnis cleaning up Burke's mess. it's nothing to get excited over

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