The trouble is, sometimes highly skilled players might cheat out of the zone or lose their man defensively, especially when they're learning the game. I don't think AV has any patience for that.
We saw an example of this last year. Vigneault was clearly never comfortable with...you know who, and felt better replacing him with a player like Pahlsson.
In that case, I think the cautious approach hurt the team's chances to win.
AV had nothing to do with trading the prodigy or the acquisition of Pahlsson. Last I heard GMs make the roster decisions and coaches make the lineup decisions. Gillis is the one who sent down Schroeder and kept Ebbett and he would be the one to trade the prodigy and bring in the aging vet.
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.
Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.
Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?
My only complaint, and it's a big one, is that AV is slow to react to swings in a playoff series. We've never overcome a squirt of adversity with him at the helm.
AV had nothing to do with trading the prodigy or the acquisition of Pahlsson. Last I heard GMs make the roster decisions and coaches make the lineup decisions. Gillis is the one who sent down Schroeder and kept Ebbett and he would be the one to trade the prodigy and bring in the aging vet.
I disagree. Vigneault has a great deal of input into personnel decisions, and without revisiting the events leading up to last year's trade deadline, let's just say the writing was on the wall. And Vigneault was holding the pen.
Clearly, the bucks stops wih Gillis, and he's the one making the final call, but let's not kid ourselves. Vigneault was right there in the war room. (Tossing a football, if I recall.)
The trouble is, sometimes highly skilled players might cheat out of the zone or lose their man defensively, especially when they're learning the game. I don't think AV has any patience for that.
We saw an example of this last year. Vigneault was clearly never comfortable with...you know who, and felt better replacing him with a player like Pahlsson.
In that case, I think the cautious approach hurt the team's chances to win.
You hit the nail right on the friggin' head. This is particularly true when you fall behind - you need those players who can put the puck in the net, regardless of their defensive deficiencies.
Although I have to come clean - I never liked this player, too much feeling of entitlement. I just like your concept which by the way another example of was Shirokov.
Last edited by Outside99: 01-18-2013 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: come clean
Can I post some young players who have received great chances under AV and have flourished?
Raymond
Tanev
Schneider
Hodgson (who it can be argued did not even deserve his chance when he got it)
Weise
Even Grabner got a decent shot, he just had brutal training camps and never made the team outta camp.
Not to mention Bieksa, Edler, Rypien, Burrows, even Kesler was pretty young when AV took over. Hodgson was given a great opportunity as well and Kassian is getting his shot this year. Shirokov is probably the one player that deserved more of a shot than he got. Schroeder is going to get his shot this year, it's just a matter of asset management. Gillis doesn't want to waive a defenseman yet.
Its not that he dislikes offense, its just that he likes defense a little more.
yeah, he's a wuss. tries to play it too safe. HOLD THE LEAD HOLD THE LEAD. don't try to score! now do that for 1.5 periods against a potent offense! that chicago series still drives me mad. that was a couple years ago though. he's changed it up a bit. I'm sure MG would have told him to pack his bags if he didn't try to change his philosophy a bit, but it still won't leave AV.
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!
Anyways AV probably has a different view and that is probably why Ebbett most likely has the job. We better win tomorrow.
I like shroeder, but come on, you want your coach fired because he wouldn't dress a prospect who may or may not become a successful NHLer? Its not like he is sitting a 21 year old crosby, who would most definitely be the face of the franchise for the next 15 years.
I dont think hes opposed to young players, i think his style is give priority to consistent players and players hes familiar with. Eventually if they are consistent and play within his guidelines they win him over.
The person who said he is risk adverse hit the nail on the head, not always a bad thing, and sometimes i like it. He is not the type of guy though to give young star a top spot though. It would have been interesting to see how he handled schultz.
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!
I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that Schroeder got sent back down when AV said that off ice matters could be the deciding point.
It's just such BS when they preach that you'll make and play on the team if you earn a spot. And then completely throw that out the window when a prospect like Schroeder outplays a bunch less deserving players ( Barker, Vandameer,volpatti, and even Ebbett
We need a new coach because clearly Schroeder deserves the Spot on the 2nd line more than Ebbett. If AV does not bring back Schroeder then we need to fire him cause I mean like Raymond and Schroeder they did it all against the Sedins and Burrows last night. Add Kassian with them he can defend them. All I can say is I am shocked. Anyways AV probably has no confidence in Schroeder. And if SCHROEDER IF YOU ARE READING THIS WE ARE 100% WITH YOU!
I know it's a shocking concept, but the young guys have to earn their ice time. How do they do that when AV is the coach? You make damn sure that your defensive game is acceptable. AV will always be a coach who expects his players to be defensively responsible first and foremost. I have no problem with that and I have no problem with prospects taking longer to develop that and make our team. They are better players for having that extra development time.
I know it's a shocking concept, but the young guys have to earn their ice time. How do they do that when AV is the coach? You make damn sure that your defensive game is acceptable. AV will always be a coach who expects his players to be defensively responsible first and foremost. I have no problem with that and I have no problem with prospects taking longer to develop that and make our team. They are better players for having that extra development time.
See Detroit for a great example of this. And I think their record speaks for itself.
I disagree. Vigneault has a great deal of input into personnel decisions, and without revisiting the events leading up to last year's trade deadline, let's just say the writing was on the wall. And Vigneault was holding the pen.
Clearly, the bucks stops wih Gillis, and he's the one making the final call, but let's not kid ourselves. Vigneault was right there in the war room. (Tossing a football, if I recall.)
Well we are going to have to disagree because I doubt that AV has much to do with trades or most personnel decisions. Coaches coach who the GM gives him. Now a smart GM will try and give the coach players that he feels will work well with the coach and his systems but ultimately if Gillis wanted Schroeder instead of Ebbett to start the season then Schroeder would be here and Ebbet would be on waivers.
A smart coach will coach who the GM gives him because his job depends on it.
I like shroeder, but come on, you want your coach fired because he wouldn't dress a prospect who may or may not become a successful NHLer? Its not like he is sitting a 21 year old crosby, who would most definitely be the face of the franchise for the next 15 years.
I get what you are saying but don't you think it would be time for a coaching change soon? I mean look at other teams they get turned around take LA and St. Louis anyways best of the luck to Ebbett but I really wanted to see what Schroeder could do.
