HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are you happy with the Bishop deal?

View Poll Results: Are you happy with the Bishop deal?
yes 212 82.81%
no 44 17.19%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2013, 10:52 PM
  #1
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
Are you happy with the Bishop deal?

I for one thought we needed more out of the deal and get that top line forward. We have a lot of depth at all positions and I thought we could have made a pretty good package to acquire a top line forward with Bishop being the key piece in a trade. Going for a rookie who was surrounded by offensive minded players didn't really show Conacher's true value imo.

He has the opportunity to thrive on our team so I will give him the chance to succeed but nonetheless I thought we should have gotten more for Bishop.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 10:57 PM
  #2
HavlatMach9
streamable 3rah1
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 500
Yes. Lots of goalies are available this off season. Bishop would eventually test free agency knowing Lehner would take the back up role. If we could have packaged Bishop, then I think we already would have but reality I think was Bishop wasn't a guaranteed #1 and would have been a risk to give up something big for other teams.

I'd have been fine with a 2nd+ or a 1st and I think Conacher's value is roughly a 1st so I'm happy.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 10:58 PM
  #3
Patvolcom65
@Patvolcom65
 
Patvolcom65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New-Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
I for one thought we needed more out of the deal and get that top line forward. We have a lot of depth at all positions and I thought we could have made a pretty good package to acquire a top line forward with Bishop being the key piece in a trade. Going for a rookie who was surrounded by offensive minded players didn't really show Conacher's true value imo.

He has the opportunity to thrive on our team so I will give him the chance to succeed but nonetheless I thought we should have gotten more for Bishop.
I wouldnt have paid the price for a top line foward, which this year was quite high, see the Pommivile trade. Im happy with the trade Conacher while being surrounded by offensive minded players is capable of creating chances and bring energy as we needed.

Patvolcom65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:17 PM
  #4
Quo
...
 
Quo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamsterdam
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,524
vCash: 500
I think it was a very fair deal. Both players are in a very similar position in their respective careers.

Both have emerged this year as relatively sure-bet NHLers and have had early success.

Bishop was great but was a spare part here.

Conacher was also great in TB but they have T. Johnson in a similar role pushing for time.

Tampa got a good player with good potential at a need position and so did we.

The extra pick coming our way, I'd wager, is a product of other teams competing for Bishop's services. Bonus.

I am very happy with this deal but Conacher still has to follow through for the long-haul. Ditto for Bishop in TB. A fair deal.

Quo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:18 PM
  #5
KarlSen
EK65
 
KarlSen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,951
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
I for one thought we needed more out of the deal and get that top line forward. We have a lot of depth at all positions and I thought we could have made a pretty good package to acquire a top line forward with Bishop being the key piece in a trade. Going for a rookie who was surrounded by offensive minded players didn't really show Conacher's true value imo.

He has the opportunity to thrive on our team so I will give him the chance to succeed but nonetheless I thought we should have gotten more for Bishop.
Even the legendary Sam Pollock would have a tough time turning an unproven goalie obtained one season for a 2nd round pick into a proven top 6 forward. We saw Bishop's potential, but he is unproven as a #1 goalie over an extended period of time, and that is what would have been required to net the return.

KarlSen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:21 PM
  #6
Senacus Maximus
Underrated
 
Senacus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Where's the "too early to say" option. It's too early to say.

Senacus Maximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:27 PM
  #7
Caeldan
Moderator
Whippet Whisperer
 
Caeldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,532
vCash: 100
Too early to say. But my initial reaction was that it was an unnecessary move, and pulled away a strength.

We'll see though. Mostly I'm not familiar with Conacher, and of the opinion that we should have a full stable of goaltenders. So obviously that biases my opinion

Caeldan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:31 PM
  #8
KarlSen
EK65
 
KarlSen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,951
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
Too early to say. But my initial reaction was that it was an unnecessary move, and pulled away a strength.

We'll see though. Mostly I'm not familiar with Conacher, and of the opinion that we should have a full stable of goaltenders. So obviously that biases my opinion
I actually didn't think it was to early. While it lasted, the 3 goalie set-up was fine, but if extended it can turn corrosive very quickly. One of them had to go by the summer at the latest, and I don't think the return was going to get any better than it is now. IMHO 2 is a full stable of goaltenders, 3 is not, even if one is NHL ready but in the AHL.

KarlSen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:31 PM
  #9
Hale The Villain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,791
vCash: 500
We got a 23 year old top 6 forward/Calder candidate in return for a goalie with 36 NHL games under his belt, who we acquired for a 2nd round pick a year earlier.

Murray did good.

Hale The Villain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:35 PM
  #10
Ed Wood
Registered User
 
Ed Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,427
vCash: 500
I would have liked to trade Anderson and go with a Bishop/Lehner duo but, having said that, Conacher is a more enticing return than I expected. Lehner had nothing more to prove in the minors and you can't horde three NHL capable goalies when you need help elsewhere. I'm satisfied.

Ed Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:35 PM
  #11
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
I think Bishop would have helped us more than Conacher. Yes, the goalie pool in the off season would be deep but I think for our future Conacher will just be good. For some reason I see him having the same potential as Andrew Cogliano.

It is too early but I guess that is why we pay BM the big bucks.

I just see him right now as a player who was in the right place at the right time to get the points he has thus far in his brief time in the NHL. Not that his points were lucky but that he was part of a system with good players. I was hoping for a return of someone who was a sure thing and not a wait and see.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:36 PM
  #12
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 30,643
vCash: 500
Lol, stylizer. You never disappoint.

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:36 PM
  #13
danishh
Registered User
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YOW
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,913
vCash: 50
yeah, i'm happy.

- Bishop was gone in the offseason at the latest.
- Bishop would have got a late first at the most in the offseason.
- We got a player with similar trade value, but NOW, not some pick we have to wait 3 years for.


yes, conacher has his flaws (size, defensive play), but he's going to help us for 2-3 years immediately while some draft pick we would've got in the summer would still be developing.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:42 PM
  #14
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
yeah, i'm happy.

- Bishop was gone in the offseason at the latest.
- Bishop would have got a late first at the most in the offseason.
- We got a player with similar trade value, but NOW, not some pick we have to wait 3 years for.


yes, conacher has his flaws (size, defensive play), but he's going to help us for 2-3 years immediately while some draft pick we would've got in the summer would still be developing.
There is still a chance we have to wait three years for him to develop. He could be the second coming of Bobby Butler? Great potential but....

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:42 PM
  #15
Quo
...
 
Quo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamsterdam
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
I think Bishop would have helped us more than Conacher. Yes, the goalie pool in the off season would be deep but I think for our future Conacher will just be good. For some reason I see him having the same potential as Andrew Cogliano.

It is too early but I guess that is why we pay BM the big bucks.

I just see him right now as a player who was in the right place at the right time to get the points he has thus far in his brief time in the NHL. Not that his points were lucky but that he was part of a system with good players. I was hoping for a return of someone who was a sure thing and not a wait and see.
Is that because you think Bishop is a sure thing to be a bonafide #1 in the NHL? I love him as a player but I don't think he's there yet. He could get there. Same way Conacher has a chance to become a bonafide top 6. It's no sure thing on either side.

Bishop gets a chance to grab the #1 position in TB. Conacher gets a chance to grow as part of our core.

Quo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:44 PM
  #16
costermonger
sans classe
 
costermonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,899
vCash: 500
I think the only way Bishop + nets us a legit top-line talent is if the + is at least Zibanejad or Silfverberg and I'd be unwilling to deal those kinds of players at this point. I think Conacher is a very fair return for Bishop because while neither player is proven, both show signs of great things to come and both TB and Ottawa dealt something they had plenty of for something they needed.

If Bishop and Lehner could've split time in the AHL then maybe keeping him would've been an option, but I think making Lehner a full-time AHLer simply due to waiver ineligibility runs a real risk of him getting jaded and asking to be dealt. And I'd have a hell of time getting upset with him for it - after all, the organization would be playing the "it's just business" card with him, he'd be stupid not to play it right back.

In this situation you've got to deal one of them, or risk one or more of them losing value and forcing your hand later. I love Bishop but he's the easy choice.

costermonger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:44 PM
  #17
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lol, stylizer. You never disappoint.
Why is everyone so sure of every deal the sens make?

Mr. Skepticism is just trying to keep it real.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:45 PM
  #18
Curtinho
Spero Meliora
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,336
vCash: 500
I'm ok with the deal. I liked Bishop a lot (I remember getting flak for suggesting it might not be wrong to keep him over Lehner).

With that said, I think it is a good return given the market and what Conacher could potentially provide for this team.

Curtinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:51 PM
  #19
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,056
vCash: 500
Look at the Pomenville trade If we moved bishop for a similar player were probably looking at

Ben Bishop
Shane Prince
First round draft pick
Second round draft pick

Plus if you listen to Murray and what he looks for in players Conacher just fits that mold perfectly.

BK201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:57 PM
  #20
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
89's size seems to weigh on me a little. Seeing as Latendresse is not a long term solution for that top line forward I am just wondering how this guy will add to our offense. Points are one thing but contributing in the other aspects of the game are another. Is he really the one dimensional player that we need? I think his ceiling is not so high. There comes a point when his size becomes a factor. Now, if he is one of those generational players where size doesn't matter like a St. Louis, Theo Fleury, or Danny Briere, then cool, but I'm not sure he is one of those. Time will tell.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #21
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 30,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Why is everyone so sure of every deal the sens make?

Mr. Skepticism is just trying to keep it real.
Lol, it's not that man. This trade is brought up very early. Conacher hasn't been as productive lately while Bishop was playing lights out.

This thread doesn't take into consideration that Conacher was brilliant in his rookie year last year in the A winning MVP only to do so as 4th player ever. Also came in this year and is 2nd in points as a rookie facing a very difficult class.

Conacher could be that top-line forward for us scoring 60-70 points. You aren't giving Conacher enough credit.

Also, goalies don't have much value and even if they did and you wish to package them for star forward, who would you have done it for this year?

Ryan, Eriksson are the ones to come to mind that could be available yet they don't need Bish as center piece, they are set in goal.

You can't hold onto Bish cause Lehner wants the job next year and is deserving so the only options were to make a trade for a young budding forward or package for a trade up in the deadline.

Murray tried going after Yandle(Big name player) but price was way too high for players this deadline, like someone pointed out.

He settled for the next best thing and I think it was just as good an option as any.

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2013, 12:01 AM
  #22
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 30,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
89's size seems to weigh on me a little. Seeing as Latendresse is not a long term solution for that top line forward I am just wondering how this guy will add to our offense. Points are one thing but contributing in the other aspects of the game are another. Is he really the one dimensional player that we need? I think his ceiling is not so high. There comes a point when his size becomes a factor. Now, if he is one of those generational players where size doesn't matter like a St. Louis, Theo Fleury, or Danny Briere, then cool, but I'm not sure he is one of those. Time will tell.
I think Conacher perfectly slots into our core top 6 moving forward.

Centers:
Spezza
Turris

Wingers:
TRADE/UFA
Silfverberg
Conacher
Michalek

Would be an amazing number 3 winger on the team, imo. Could be pushed to 4th.

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2013, 12:03 AM
  #23
costermonger
sans classe
 
costermonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kitchener, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,899
vCash: 500
Aside from the value goalies generally have (less than an 'equivalent' skater), people really do need to remember that a lot of pretty damn good goalies in the league these days. The trade market for a guy like Bishop was definitely not 29 teams.

costermonger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2013, 12:09 AM
  #24
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lol, it's not that man. This trade is brought up very early. Conacher hasn't been as productive lately while Bishop was playing lights out.

This thread doesn't take into consideration that Conacher was brilliant in his rookie year last year in the A winning MVP only to do so as 4th player ever. Also came in this year and is 2nd in points as a rookie facing a very difficult class.

Conacher could be that top-line forward for us scoring 60-70 points. You aren't giving Conacher enough credit.

Also, goalies don't have much value and even if they did and you wish to package them for star forward, who would you have done it for this year?

Ryan, Eriksson are the ones to come to mind that could be available yet they don't need Bish as center piece, they are set in goal.

You can't hold onto Bish cause Lehner wants the job next year and is deserving so the only options were to make a trade for a young budding forward or package for a trade up in the deadline.

Murray tried going after Yandle(Big name player) but price was way too high for players this deadline, like someone pointed out.

He settled for the next best thing and I think it was just as good an option as any.
Being an MVP in the A is not so rosey for some (see Corey Locke)

St. Louis has shown he can make you look very good as long as you are on his line some of the time.

For a young team Conacher is a great piece but for assuring a top line threat, not so sure. that's all.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2013, 12:14 AM
  #25
FolignoQuantumLeap
Its a trap
 
FolignoQuantumLeap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,645
vCash: 500
Absolutely. Conacher maybe not pan out as a consistent top 6 guy but he's got a ton of heart and skill and unfortunately only one goalie can play and we have two better goalies than Bishop. Plus we got ourselves a lottery ticket in June. Like in the Vermette/Leclaire deal, that pick could very well be the best asset in trade.

FolignoQuantumLeap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.