huh... P.K. was brought in for the P.O... he played 2 reg. season games for us in his first year, we sure didnt learn how to win enough reg. season games to make the PO because of him.
No need to reach that far, no one is saying Subban sucks.
I don't want to get involved in the argument but you're omitting PK's rookie season where he logged quite a bit of ice time, scored 14 goals and helped the habs finish 6th without Markov. Markov only played 7 games that season. He also scored that big goal in game 7 against the booins to get the game to OT. But no one stepped up...
I don't support tanking. I don't want to give Subban a lesson... This is a bad team, with or without Subban. It's just a question of degrees of bad.
PK is 23 and will get better. But this lockout and holding out crap is slowing his development. It does have an impact on the long term future of the team.
I don't want to get involved in the argument but you're omitting PK's rookie season where he logged quite a bit of ice time, scored 14 goals and helped the habs finish 6th without Markov. Markov only played 7 games that season. He also scored that big goal in game 7 against the booins to get the game to OT. But no one stepped up...
you're speaking of the game 7 we ended up losing or another game 7 ?
no one stepped up and it was somewhat expected, we had to play 60 years old Hamrlik and Gill in OT of a game 7 where they logged quite a few minutes already.
think you need to put some thought into what impact means, sure Subban is better that Dykhius or Traverse were, but so is MaB... would you consider MaB an impact player simply cause he's better than those two ?
definitely not... but since Subban is young and spectacular...
easy, lots of peeps are claiming he should be paid like the impact player he is.
thing is, he is NOT an impact player (yet).
Your definition of impact is subjective at best. If a guy logs top 20 minutes in the NHL as a dman, then you have to consider him an impact player. If a guy is an integral component of one of the best PK in the league, you have to consider him an impact player. Regardless of how well his team does.
But the real truth here is that you can't expect a 22 year old to be the huge hall of fame difference maker that will turn the tide. Almost no one can do that. However, Subban has shown that he might have the potential to end up being that guy in the future. And teams jump at the chance to sign these type of players to long term deals following their ELCs (Eberle, Myers, Carlson, Hall, etc). The guys I just mentionned haven't been "impact players" for their team but got long term deals out of their ELC. Why is that ? Maybe Bergevin should think a little on why...
think you need to put some thought into what impact means, sure Subban is better that Dykhius or Traverse were, but so is MaB... would you consider MaB an impact player simply cause he's better than those two ?
This makes no sense to me. I don't know where you're going with this.
easy, lots of peeps are claiming he should be paid like the impact player he is.
thing is, he is NOT an impact player (yet).
People are advocating him to be paid as the top tier d-man that he is. This whole "he's not an impact player" argument is a really weak way of trying to lower his value to the club.
People are advocating him to be paid as the top tier d-man that he is. This whole "he's not an impact player" argument is a really weak way of trying to lower his value to the club.
I don't think the "impact player" argument would make a lot of sense to a judge in a arbitration case.
Your definition of impact is subjective at best. If a guy logs top 20 minutes in the NHL as a dman, then you have to consider him an impact player. If a guy is an integral component of one of the best PK in the league, you have to consider him an impact player. Regardless of how well his team does.
But the real truth here is that you can't expect a 22 year old to be the huge hall of fame difference maker that will turn the tide. Almost no one can do that. However, Subban has shown that he might have the potential to end up being that guy in the future. And teams jump at the chance to sign these type of players to long term deals following their ELCs (Eberle, Myers, Carlson, Hall, etc). The guys I just mentionned haven't been "impact players" for their team but got long term deals out of their ELC. Why is that ? Maybe Bergevin should think a little on why...
so, Gill, Hamrlik, Gorges, Subban, Spacek were/are ALL impact players (even MaB at times) ? really ?
You claimed that if Subban was as good as claimed, that our PP wouldn't have been last. That is insane. It takes many pieces to make a PP work.
Your comments on him needing to fix his point shot are nothing new. Everyone knows he herp derps his slapshot. Being a PP QB is more than taking slapshots, though. His point production on the PP is good enough to place him among the leagues best.
The ad hominem is amusing, though.
I claimed it because it's ridiculously obvious. You don't preach how good a pp quarterback is without looking at how the pp ranks. And he's not among the leagues best for #1 pp quarterbacks he's 22nd. Or 15th depending how you look at it. But yeah that totally insane! Lol
I'd go as high as 8 years 48 million. He's easily a 5.5m dman now. In a few years he'd be one of the best contracts in the league.
OH noes 6million, are you crazy? Take a look around. It's not 1993 anymore.
6million would only be a slight over payment at this point. Solidifying him for 8 years make its a no brainer imo.
On 8 years you provide security so you should get a discount from the player. This kinda puts all the risk on the habs. For 8 years I think you can look at 4M-4.5M per.
On 8 years you provide security so you should get a discount from the player. This kinda puts all the risk on the habs. For 8 years I think you can look at 4M-4.5M per.
It also goes the other way.
For an 8 year contract, the team wins because it gets a lot of UFA years, and because the cap goes up by ~5%/year. By the end of the contract the cap hit will be depreciated by ~50%.
For an 8 year contract, the team wins because it gets a lot of UFA years, and because the cap goes up by ~5%/year. By the end of the contract the cap hit will be depreciated by ~50%.
The only advantage to an 8 year/48M deal I can see is that maybe the cap will go up and it will make it better. I don't think I would go for it if I were the habs.
As for the UFA years... 6M is quite a bit even for an UFA.
I'd go as high as 8 years 48 million. He's easily a 5.5m dman now. In a few years he'd be one of the best contracts in the league.
OH noes 6million, are you crazy? Take a look around. It's not 1993 anymore.
6million would only be a slight over payment at this point. Solidifying him for 8 years make its a no brainer imo.
6M/year is a little steep. I agree on buying up as many UFA years as possible, but PK and Meehan have to bring something to this negotiation. At 8 years, I'd expect a cap-hit of ~5M. Back-load it if you have to, but after this arduous process I think MB expects at least a little longterm cap room if he's committing to PK for 8 years.
PK Subban for 6 years @ 4 million per year would be the best contract on the team.
It would be about as awesome as Pacioretty's 6 yeah 27M contract.
I still can't get over how awesome Pacioretty is for signing that contract. He could have gotten more than 5 per on a contract like that but he didn't. I hope Subban is in the same boat as Patches.
On 8 years you provide security so you should get a discount from the player. This kinda puts all the risk on the habs. For 8 years I think you can look at 4M-4.5M per.
Disagree, short term the price goes down. Long term the price goes up to pay for the UFA years. Always and forever.
This isn't a kind signing into his late 30's on a retirement contract where you can reduce the cap hit by adding years he'll never play, like we seen in previous cba's. To buy years, you pay a bit in the beginning, but more than make up for it in those remaining years. The list of 5-6million dollar dman is big and PK is definitely worthy of being on that list.
Last edited by habsfanatics: 01-21-2013 at 05:57 PM.
