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01-20-2013, 05:48 PM
  #451
zeke
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Phaneuf has been a #1 defenseman his entire career, for teams good and bad.

Last year he was an elite defenseman, by any and all measures.

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01-20-2013, 05:48 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
By elite I mean putting up elite offensive, defensive, and physical numbers while playing elite minutes against elite competition, even while playing in front of some of the worst goaltending in the league.
You're full of it and completely wrong and if I was not on a phone I would show you countless contradictory facts and articles. Get out of town.

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01-20-2013, 05:48 PM
  #453
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My point is there is no reason to give Phaneuf a raise. Pay him $6.5M per again if that's the going rate. If he wants more then he can test UFA. I seriously doubt he'll get substantially more than that from any other team.

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01-20-2013, 05:49 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
You suggested with re-signing Kessel and Phaneuf, the Leafs would be unable to sign other players and UFA's. I'm showing you, that you are incorrect.
How so?

The players I was talking about were Getzlaf and Perry types not just run of the mill players. Still, I disagree you can lock up Kessel and Phaneuf for 10M on extensions, that was the total you came up with, why would Kessel take a pay cut?

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01-20-2013, 05:50 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
You're full of it and completely wrong and if I was not on a phone I would show you countless contradictory facts and articles. Get out of town.
You couldn't show me even one contradictory fact. Not one.


The only argument against Phaneuf being elite last year is that his team sucked. Which is not an argument any intelligent person would use, and is not an argument used against elite players on other bad teams.

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01-20-2013, 05:50 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Phaneuf has been a #1 defenseman his entire career, for teams good and bad.

Last year he was an elite defenseman, by any and all measures.
You could sell me on the sun being made of blueberry pie before I could accept dion as being as good as a Lidstrom etc.

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01-20-2013, 05:51 PM
  #457
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nobody ever said Phaneuf was as good as Lidstrom, who was one of the best defensemen to ever lace up skates.

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01-20-2013, 05:51 PM
  #458
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People don't like the way Phaneuf skates and equate that to bad defense. That's all it boils down to.

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01-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
How so?

The players I was talking about were Getzlaf and Perry types not just run of the mill players. Still, I disagree you can lock up Kessel and Phaneuf for 10M on extensions, why would Kessel take a pay cut?
How do you know they reach the UFA?!

They can just as well re-sign with the Ducks next week.

Getzlaf has already said...he remains committed to signing with the Ducks. He has married a woman in California, pretty sure he wants to stay there with her.

Perry might be available in the UFA and if he is...and wants to play close to home. Do you really think the Leafs wouldn't do everything in their power to get him?

They'll buy out and trade anyone to get Perry on this team if he wants to be here.

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01-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #460
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leaf fans don't seem to realize that elite defensemen on other teams also get beaten off the rush, and in front of the net.

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01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Elite by consistently lining up against the top opposition and playing more than 27 minutes a night, while scoring in the top 10. So yes, elite.

Love to see a stat that shows hes scored on "relentlessly", when they actually show the opposite.
Phaneuf:

+/- per 60 minutes on ice: -0.59

+/- per 60 minutes off ice: -0.38

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01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
By elite I mean putting up elite offensive, defensive, and physical numbers while playing elite minutes against elite competition, even while playing in front of some of the worst goaltending in the league.
By elite you mean being 7th last year, 13th the year before, 12th in '10 and 13th in '09, 1st in '08 for penalty minutes that's a great elite D-man there.

By being the Captain of a bottom 5 team in the league since he's arrived and by having the worst PK, and one of the worst defenses in the league the last 3 seasons thats a great elite D-man!

By being 255th and almost last place in +/- last season and.. 180th in '11.

Truly elite.

Again he's not a bad defenseman but he's got a lot of flaws and at 28 by seasons end he ain't getting any younger or showing signs of improvement. He's declining and regressing.

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01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #463
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I think Phaneuf would take a 6M per contract, considering Wisniewski is making 5.5M and Subban is reportedly looking for 5-6 per, Dion is better than either player.

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01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
How do you know they reach the UFA?!

They can just as well re-sign with the Ducks next week.

Getzlaf has already said...he remains committed to signing with the Ducks. He has married a woman in California, pretty sure he wants to stay there with her.

Perry might be available in the UFA and if he is...and wants to play close to home. Do you really think the Leafs wouldn't do everything in their power to get him?

They'll buy out and trade anyone to get Perry on this team if he wants to be here.
I see no reason other than an absolute overpayment for Getzlaf to sign here. It's not like he's got any connections to Toronto or the Leafs being from the West.

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01-20-2013, 05:54 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I think Phaneuf would take a 6M per contract, considering Wisniewski is making 5.5M and Subban is reportedly looking for 5-6 per, Dion is better than either player.
Then that's fine because the extra money should be going to re-sign Kessel.

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01-20-2013, 05:54 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
How do you know they reach the UFA?!

They can just as well re-sign with the Ducks next week.

Getzlaf has already said...he remains committed to signing with the Ducks. He has married a woman in California, pretty sure he wants to stay there with her.

Perry might be available in the UFA and if he is...and wants to play close to home. Do you really think the Leafs wouldn't do everything in their power to get him?

They'll buy out and trade anyone to get Perry on this team if he wants to be here.
Never said they would. I think posters are throwing out possible scenarios.

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01-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Phaneuf:

+/- per 60 minutes on ice: -0.59

+/- per 60 minutes off ice: -0.38
Now do the rest of the team and show the goalies s%.

Its just like last night when Montreal scored, and the ridiculous members of this fanbase scower the ice to see if #3 is out there. He is! Well then it must be his fault Kulemin blew his assignment, Phaneuf should have known that would happen.

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01-20-2013, 05:56 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
People don't like the way Phaneuf skates and equate that to bad defense. That's all it boils down to.
What people dont like is actually the way Phaneuf DOESN'T skate.

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01-20-2013, 05:56 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
Then that's fine because the extra money should be going to re-sign Kessel.
Kessel is probably looking for a deal in the 7M area, if he does what he did last year, that would be a fair contract.

Our organization gave up a lot for him, can't let him not re-sign.

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01-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Now do the rest of the team and show the goalies s%.
Do it yourself. You asked for the stat, I provided it.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...30+31+32+33+34

Goalie save % is entirely irrelevant if you're comparing players on the same team. Because, you know...they all played in front of the same save percentages. Not a difficult concept.

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01-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #471
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What people dont like is actually the way Phaneuf DOESN'T skate.
He skates fine. Gardiner on the other hand skates beautifully so people assume he must be great defensively.

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01-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #472
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This should be chalked up to nothing more than Bryan McCabe syndrome. Montreal eats their goaltending, Toronto devours defensemen.

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01-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Kessel is probably looking for a deal in the 7M area, if he does what he did last year, that would be a fair contract.

Our organization gave up a lot for him, can't let him not re-sign.
What Kessel can get will be determined as much by this season as by last. Don't get me wrong, he was always guaranteed a raise, and last season increased that number regardless of what happens this year. But a poor campaign will result in quite a bit less than a repeat of last season's performance.

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01-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #474
zeke
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Phaneuf:

+/- per 60 minutes on ice: -0.59

+/- per 60 minutes off ice: -0.38
yep, Dion was almost as good up against the other team's best players every shift as his teammates were against their bottom liners.

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01-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
My point is there is no reason to give Phaneuf a raise. Pay him $6.5M per again if that's the going rate. If he wants more then he can test UFA. I seriously doubt he'll get substantially more than that from any other team.
If Phaneuf is any kind of captain, or wants to be the Leafs captain going forward, he should set an example and sign for below market value. The Leafs need to start signing discount contracts, along the lines of what the core in Detroit and Vancouver have done.

If we can get Phaneuf locked up long term with a cap hit around 5 million, that would benefit the team a lot going forward. That would show guys like Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, etc. that it's not all about hitting a huge pay day, it's about doing what's best for the team. Guys like Phaneuf and Kessel have been making big bucks for years, they should be willing to take less on a long term basis.

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