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Lupul extended - 5 years x 5.25m

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:01 PM
  #476
T M L
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
My point is there is no reason to give Phaneuf a raise.
Phaneuf does not deserve a raise, he is overpaid as is.

He should get anywhere between 4-5M tops.

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01-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #477
Pi
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
My point is there is no reason to give Phaneuf a raise. Pay him $6.5M per again if that's the going rate. If he wants more then he can test UFA. I seriously doubt he'll get substantially more than that from any other team.
He won't get a raise. The Leafs can't be crazy to give him a raise.

He's a middle of the pack #1D.

He'll get 5.5-6M...that's not a raise. That's just typical.

If guys like Tyler Myers make 5.5M despite playing no PK time...barely any good in ES. Phaneuf deserves 6M at least.

He won't get 6.5M...no way.

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01-20-2013, 05:05 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
By elite you mean being 7th last year, 13th the year before, 12th in '10 and 13th in '09, 1st in '08 for penalty minutes that's a great elite D-man there.
Chara: 9th, 12th, 9th, 18th, 8th
Letag finished 6th in his only recent healthy season.

It's funny, guys like Pronger used to be worshipped for their high penalty minute totals.

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By being the Captain of a bottom 5 team in the league since he's arrived and by having the worst PK, and one of the worst defenses in the league the last 3 seasons thats a great elite D-man!
There are elite players on other crap teams, too.

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By being 255th and almost last place in +/- last season and.. 180th in '11.
You just used +/- in a hockey argument.

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Truly elite.

Again he's not a bad defenseman but he's got a lot of flaws and at 28 by seasons end he ain't getting any younger or showing signs of improvement. He's declining and regressing.
declinining all the way to being one of 3 dmen to finish top-15 in goals, points, hit, quality of competition, and icetime last year.

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01-20-2013, 05:09 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Now do the rest of the team and show the goalies s%.

Its just like last night when Montreal scored, and the ridiculous members of this fanbase scower the ice to see if #3 is out there. He is! Well then it must be his fault Kulemin blew his assignment, Phaneuf should have known that would happen.
Who's fault was it when Pacioretty blew by him to the outside 1 on 1 like he wasn't even there? I seem to recall as many excuses as false accusations over the years on here.

On the PK right before Montreal scored, why did he chase a skater behind the net? On the PK? Kids know better than that. Had he not done that, he'd have been on his assigned side, where the goal was scored from.

PK defense is by zone, nobody practices what to do on the PK if a defenseman chases behind the net.

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01-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Chara: 9th, 12th, 9th, 18th, 8th
Letag finished 6th in his only recent healthy season.

It's funny, guys like Pronger used to be worshipped for their high penalty minute totals.
None of those players are consistently as bad as Dion at so many key defensive stats. Dion has poor hockey IQ and is getting beat off the rush or in the corners all the time. He gets a lot of hooking and tripping penalties.

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There are elite players on other crap teams, too.
Name some...

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You just used +/- in a hockey argument.
Oh here we go again about how +/- isn't a valid NHL stat..

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declinining all the way to being one of 3 dmen to finish top-15 in goals, points, hit, quality of competition, and icetime last year.
Wow top 15!! Lets pay him $6-7 and ignore the fact that he's a defenseman that doesn't play defense!

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01-20-2013, 05:12 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
yep, Dion was almost as good up against the other team's best players every shift as his teammates were against their bottom liners.
TheHockeyNews

"FLAWS: Lacks consistency. His defensive-zone coverage leaves something to be desired at times, which negates his impact on the NHL a little. Can be a little too exhuberant at times in search of the big hit and gets out of position.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Inconsistent, all-round big-minute defenseman."

Vs. Karlsson

"FLAWS: Size is somewhat of an issue for him, as he's smallish for the blueline position at the National Hockey League level. So, he needs to keep getting stronger. Struggles with defensive-zone coverage at times, and isn't an ideal shutdown defenseman due to his limitations when he doesn't have the puck on his blade.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Elite offensive defenseman."

vs. Shea Weber

"FLAWS: Must curb his propensity to run around the defensive zone in search of the big hit from time to time. Also, he can go overboard in terms of his physicality from time to time and take a bad penalty for a questionable hit. Is still a little inconsistent in terms of playing the shutdown role.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Elite all-round defenseman with a big point shot and leadership skills."

***NOTE THE USE OF WORD ELITE!


Last edited by thewave: 01-20-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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Old
01-20-2013, 05:12 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Phaneuf has been a #1 defenseman his entire career, for teams good and bad.

Last year he was an elite defenseman, by any and all measures.
Phaneuf was never a #1 defenseman in Calgary, the years he actually got Norris votes. And when they stopped sheltering him his play took a nosedive.

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01-20-2013, 05:13 PM
  #483
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I like the signing of Lupul... if he scores on average 60 points a season I consider it fair... if he produces around 70 points I consider it steal. The likely hood of him scoring less than 50 points in an 82 game season is unlikely. He's healthy, loves the city, is good with the media and this all has to be considered. I think this is a fair contract considering he was a soon to be UFA. I love our forward group. Lupul, Kessel, JVR, Grabo, Kulemin, Kadri is some serious fire power up front and even Bozak, Mac for now although their future isn't set in stone. I consider our offence in the top half of the league (just look at the numbers) and with a defensive minded coach it has the potential to be elite, even without a number 1 centre... with a number 1 C it could probably be one of the best. Burke may have failed at getting that important centre and goalie, but he has set us up quite nicely... we have a good foundation in place.

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01-20-2013, 05:16 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
yep, Dion was almost as good up against the other team's best players every shift as his teammates were against their bottom liners.
Wrong.

1) A difference of 36% is not "almost as good." It's significantly worse.

2) The other defensemen (except Gunnarsson) faced easier competition but also had worse quality of teammates.

3) You just scolded someone for using +/- in a hockey argument, but you keep citing Phaneuf's quality of competition. You know that's a stat arrived at using nothing but +/-, right?

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01-20-2013, 05:20 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Wrong.

1) A difference of 36% is not "almost as good." It's significantly worse.

2) The other defensemen (except Gunnarsson) faced easier competition but also had worse quality of teammates.

3) You just scolded someone for using +/- in a hockey argument, but you keep citing Phaneuf's quality of competition. You know that's a stat arrived at using nothing but +/-, right?
Just smile and hope Nonis has better sense than these two.

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01-20-2013, 05:26 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
Something about signing a player right after a breakout season (although a shortened one) doesn't sit well with me.

I'd like to see how he does in this shortened season before throwing big money and term at him (and yes, I know he's been productive in the past).

I hope they are just seeing where his camp's head's at #'s wise first.

He's a good player, but odds are he's not going to maintain his all-star performance from last season.
I've got mixed feelings about this as well. This is kind of one of those big-time gambles. If he performs this year at the same high level, he commands more. If we get three more seasons at the same level, we've won this signing. If he has injury issues, or isn't as productive a loss... but then, we could always buy him out in two years. ;-)

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:35 PM
  #487
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First, Lupul will never re-sign in Toronto because of Carlyle and the team not being good (Where are those posters?) now everyone's complaining about the money?

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01-20-2013, 05:36 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Kessel is probably looking for a deal in the 7M area, if he does what he did last year, that would be a fair contract.

Our organization gave up a lot for him, can't let him not re-sign.
I think it'll take more than that.

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01-20-2013, 05:37 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I think it'll take more than that.
Depends on term, don't you think? $7mil for 8 years is a lot more appealing than a 4 or 5 year deal.

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01-20-2013, 05:38 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
First, Lupul will never re-sign in Toronto because of Carlyle and the team not being good (Where are those posters?) now everyone's complaining about the money?
This is the Leafs we're talking of. People need something to complain about.

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01-20-2013, 05:40 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
First, Lupul will never re-sign in Toronto because of Carlyle and the team not being good (Where are those posters?) now everyone's complaining about the money?
was a fine signing.

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01-20-2013, 05:40 PM
  #492
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Who is Kessel's agent? I think he deserves 7x8.

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01-20-2013, 05:44 PM
  #493
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Based on statistics alone from 2011-2012, other d-men that are in line with Phaneufs stats are:

Mark Streit: 4.1 mill
Dennis Wideman:5.25 mill
Kevin Bieksa: 4.6 mill
Ryan Sutter: 7.5 mill
Keith Yandle: 5.25 mill

Suter, Bieksa, Yandle were plus players. Based on this list, I see Phaneuf falling in somewhere around 5.25mill.

The summer of 2014, there will be a few very good d-men on the market, granted they don't resign with their teams or retire.

Bowmeester, Boyle, Markov, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi and Stuart.

I can see Boyle and Markov hanging them up by then.

So if you had to choose from Bowmeester, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi, Stuart or Phaneuf, who would you throw money at?

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by HOTD View Post
Based on statistics alone from 2011-2012, other d-men that are in line with Phaneufs stats are:

Mark Streit: 4.1 mill
Dennis Wideman:5.25 mill
Kevin Bieksa: 4.6 mill
Ryan Sutter: 7.5 mill
Keith Yandle: 5.25 mill

Suter, Bieksa, Yandle were plus players. Based on this list, I see Phaneuf falling in somewhere around 5.25mill.

The summer of 2014, there will be a few very good d-men on the market, granted they don't resign with their teams or retire.

Bowmeester, Boyle, Markov, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi and Stuart.

I can see Boyle and Markov hanging them up by then.

So if you had to choose from Bowmeester, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi, Stuart or Phaneuf, who would you throw money at?
Letang without doubt.

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01-20-2013, 05:51 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by HOTD View Post
Based on statistics alone from 2011-2012, other d-men that are in line with Phaneufs stats are:

Mark Streit: 4.1 mill
Dennis Wideman:5.25 mill
Kevin Bieksa: 4.6 mill
Ryan Sutter: 7.5 mill
Keith Yandle: 5.25 mill

Suter, Bieksa, Yandle were plus players. Based on this list, I see Phaneuf falling in somewhere around 5.25mill.

The summer of 2014, there will be a few very good d-men on the market, granted they don't resign with their teams or retire.

Bowmeester, Boyle, Markov, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi and Stuart.

I can see Boyle and Markov hanging them up by then.

So if you had to choose from Bowmeester, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi, Stuart or Phaneuf, who would you throw money at?
I throw out the Suter contract, it's some strange beast that doesn't belong and you get 4.8m for Dion

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01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
First, Lupul will never re-sign in Toronto because of Carlyle and the team not being good (Where are those posters?) now everyone's complaining about the money?
the signing was good, if he does not produce this year and next , we buy him out. its only money to leafs, they are worth a billion.
but if he does produce than its a steal.

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01-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #497
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The absolute best the Leafs can do here is break even and that's if Lupul can put up 60+ points for the extent of the deal.

When weighing the amount of risk in the deal with the potential payoff, it's not a great $ amount and definitely doesn't favor the Leafs, but these are the things you need to do to hang onto your potential UFA's these days so I don't have a problem with it.

On the open market, Lupul gets 5.25 easily if he can replicate last season.

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01-20-2013, 06:00 PM
  #498
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Terrible signing. A guy who had 1 good season, whos known to be an injury prone gets a 5 year deal 5.25m per...wow, at least wait till like a 30 game mark this season to sign him...Terrible move.. i hope im wrong though

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01-20-2013, 06:02 PM
  #499
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Are people actually worried about the cap space?

I proposed a line up that would leave us with 10 mill to sign a top line C, 3W and 4w. Assuming 1 mil for the 4w, 2 mill for the 3W and you have 7 million for a top line C. Phaneuf would likely get a 1-1.5 mill pay cut which can be used to re-sign Kessel, and the 4.5 from Komisarek + a likely 2 mill increase going into 2015 would cover a goalie.

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01-20-2013, 06:05 PM
  #500
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Funniest part of this is that he's only a mill more than what he was signed too...

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