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Lupul extended - 5 years x 5.25m

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Old
01-20-2013, 06:05 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Are people actually worried about the cap space?

I proposed a line up that would leave us with 10 mill to sign a top line C, 3W and 4w. Assuming 1 mil for the 4w, 2 mill for the 3W and you have 7 million for a top line C. Phaneuf would likely get a 1-1.5 mill pay cut which can be used to re-sign Kessel, and the 4.5 from Komisarek + a likely 2 mill increase going into 2015 would cover a goalie.
People are scared that he was a one year wonder and the risk of him getting injuried cause hes known for that...

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01-20-2013, 06:05 PM
  #502
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UFA years cost a bit of a premium. This is a fair deal based on the market imo

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01-20-2013, 06:06 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Phaneuf does not deserve a raise, he is overpaid as is.

He should get anywhere between 4-5M tops.


I would prefer trading phaneuf before even re-signing him. **** him.


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01-20-2013, 06:12 PM
  #504
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This board's stupidity with regards to Phaneuf is amazing. Zeke's right with his arguments. The day we start being a good team, these arguments on Phaneuf will go away. Guy is going to turn 28, he's in his prime, this board thinks that this is too old?

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01-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
This board's stupidity with regards to Phaneuf is amazing. Zeke's right with his arguments. The day we start being a good team, these arguments on Phaneuf will go away. Guy is going to turn 28, he's in his prime, this board thinks that this is too old?
He is good not elite and deserving of a raise

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01-20-2013, 06:15 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
He is good not elite and deserving of a raise
who said anything about a raise. His salary as it is now (6-6.5 is fair). Not a discount, but that's his market value.

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01-20-2013, 06:15 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
People are scared that he was a one year wonder and the risk of him getting injuried cause hes known for that...
He has been playing at a 70 point pace through his tenure in toronto. Previously he was a 50-60 point player like Grabovski. He is paid as such, if he was paid for his one hit wonder year it would be closer to 7... People seriously are oblivious to contracts around the league.

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01-20-2013, 06:16 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
Name some...
Lol? Tavares, Stamkos, half of Edmonton, Perry, Getzlaf, Eric Staal, Byfuglien, St. Louis, Kessel, and that's just the bottom ten.

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01-20-2013, 06:16 PM
  #509
The Podium
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
He is good not elite and deserving of a raise
He is what he is an average #1 D. He should be closer to 5 mill and likely will get a cut in pay, doesn't mean he should be a scape goat.

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01-20-2013, 06:18 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Are people actually worried about the cap space?

I proposed a line up that would leave us with 10 mill to sign a top line C, 3W and 4w. Assuming 1 mil for the 4w, 2 mill for the 3W and you have 7 million for a top line C. Phaneuf would likely get a 1-1.5 mill pay cut which can be used to re-sign Kessel, and the 4.5 from Komisarek + a likely 2 mill increase going into 2015 would cover a goalie.
No, I think the concern is that Lupul will either a) not replicate his production from last season or b) miss significant time with injury, making him and the contract essentially unmovable.

Two valid concerns I'd say.

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01-20-2013, 06:20 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
UFA years cost a bit of a premium. This is a fair deal based on the market imo
Agree. I'd rather slightly overpay than lose organizational talent for no return. $1 million is a lot cheaper a loss for the team than losing a guy like Lupul to free agency.

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01-20-2013, 06:26 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Ok so your on board with all the money thats dished out to unproven players. The list is long. Lupul has been traded 4 times. He seems to have proven himself over 1 with Leaf fans. The contract is too much too soon, U wait a month or two and what do u risk? Paying him 6 or 7? I doubt it. Lupul maximized his every dollar in this deal. He is payed more than Kessel, that makes sense? I like Lupul, buts its too much too soon.
Lupul is gonna get paid $5.25mil while Kessel is getting 5.4. Even if Lupul was gonna get paid slightley more it wouldn't be the same because Kessel was signed as an RFA.

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01-20-2013, 06:28 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
No, I think the concern is that Lupul will either a) not replicate his production from last season or b) miss significant time with injury, making him and the contract essentially unmovable.

Two valid concerns I'd say.
All players signed to a 5-5.75 million are 50-60 point players. He isn't paid like a PPG player so his contract isn't based on his PPG season. Looking at his résumé he has:

2 45+ point pace seasons
4 50 point pace seasons
1 67 point pace season
1 PPG season

He has 85 points in 94 games as a leaf

He is historically a 50-60 point player, one worthy of a 5-5.75 contract in today's NHL. Production should not be a concern. Injury may be but as long as he continues to recover it won't be a hindrance.

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01-20-2013, 06:31 PM
  #514
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I think it's a little much for an injury-prone 29-year-old coming off a career year. They're certainly not "tearing it down" based on this signing, but we knew that much based on Nonis' introductory press conference. Hopefully he justifies the contract.

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01-20-2013, 06:33 PM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
All players signed to a 5-5.75 million are 50-60 point players. He isn't paid like a PPG player so his contract isn't based on his PPG season. Looking at his résumé he has:

2 45+ point pace seasons
4 50 point pace seasons
1 67 point pace season
1 PPG season

He has 85 points in 94 games as a leaf

He is historically a 50-60 point player, one worthy of a 5-5.75 contract in today's NHL. Production should not be a concern. Injury may be but as long as he continues to recover it won't be a hindrance.
You can't give him 50 point seasons unless he, you know, scores 50 points in a season. "on pace" is nice and all, but means absolutely nothing if he's not going to play full years.

in his career, he has surpassed the 50 pt mark twice. he has not shown the consistency in production nor health thus far that would make me 100% comfortable with giving him the money Nonis did, but as I said in my original post - it's what you need to do these days to prevent your guys from going to UFA.

it needed to be done, but the likelihood of this turning into a bargain, or even pretty good deal for the Leafs is very slim.

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01-20-2013, 06:36 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Thats true. But If u look at hall and eberle at 6 million, it works the other way in that arguement. Would u rather have one of those 2 guys and pay that 750,000 gap? Pretty easy answer there I think. Eberle got 78 points last year and Hall is also one of the brightest young stars in the league. Kane and Toews are at 6.3. Those 4 guys are in the same pay scale area as Lupul and Grabo. U over pay a little bit too each guy and all of a sudden your at the cap and not in the playoffs and cant sign anyone. That seems to be the story in the last 6 years.
They were RFA's!!! Do you not understand the differnce between RFA and UFA?

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01-20-2013, 06:37 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
You can't give him 50 point seasons unless he, you know, scores 50 points in a season. "on pace" is nice and all, but means absolutely nothing if he's not going to play full years.

in his career, he has surpassed the 50 pt mark twice. he has not shown the consistency in production nor health thus far that would make me 100% comfortable with giving him the money Nonis did, but as I said in my original post - it's what you need to do these days to prevent your guys from going to UFA.

it needed to be done, but the likelihood of this turning into a bargain, or even pretty good deal for the Leafs is very slim.
This doesn't make sense.... On pace for 45-60 points every year makes him a 45-60 point player. His injury troubles are a concern but your using it as a means to criticize him for two different things....

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01-20-2013, 06:37 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
If Phaneuf is any kind of captain, or wants to be the Leafs captain going forward, he should set an example and sign for below market value. The Leafs need to start signing discount contracts, along the lines of what the core in Detroit and Vancouver have done.

If we can get Phaneuf locked up long term with a cap hit around 5 million, that would benefit the team a lot going forward. That would show guys like Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner, etc. that it's not all about hitting a huge pay day, it's about doing what's best for the team. Guys like Phaneuf and Kessel have been making big bucks for years, they should be willing to take less on a long term basis.
That's a joke right? I'm not saying overpay for these guys, but you can't hold it against them if they ask for market value, or at least close to. Yeah, they've made millions, but if you were in their shoes, would you take that much less than market value for a team that hasn't really done anything? I mean, history aside, the Leafs are pushing Blue Jacket status in terms of mediocrity on the ice for nearly a decade.

Realistically, you're looking at Phaneuf getting 30/5 and Kessel 56/8, even that deal for Kessel will be an underpayment halfway through his deal.

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01-20-2013, 06:40 PM
  #519
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Do you people realize that we will most likely have an amnesty buyout left for the 2014 off season?

This is a great deal for us. If Lupul can replicate his production, and stay healthy, we will get a bargain, because PPG players make a lot more than 5.25. If he stays healthy, and scores 60+ pts, it will be a good deal, as it will be market value. If he can't stay healthy for the next two seasons, we have the option to buy him out.

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01-20-2013, 06:43 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by deuce457 View Post
if he can stay healthy it will be worth it, but there is no evidence over his career to show that he can.

i like lupul as a player i dont want people to get the wrong impression, but i dont think you build a stanley cup winner around him
Who said that we're building around him? He's the type that you surround others with.

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01-20-2013, 06:44 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
No, I think the concern is that Lupul will either a) not replicate his production from last season or b) miss significant time with injury, making him and the contract essentially unmovable.

Two valid concerns I'd say.
Exactly, he had two 50+ pt seasons a while back then he puts one good season together (still missed 16 games) and he is set for life. I would have waited until he played this season. What was the rush?

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01-20-2013, 06:45 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Lol? Tavares, Stamkos, half of Edmonton, Perry, Getzlaf, Eric Staal, Byfuglien, St. Louis, Kessel, and that's just the bottom ten.
Oh really they are all defensemen? I didn't know that!!

Reading comprehension 101 needs to be a pre-requisite on these boards.


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01-20-2013, 06:49 PM
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
This board's stupidity with regards to Phaneuf is amazing. Zeke's right with his arguments. The day we start being a good team, these arguments on Phaneuf will go away. Guy is going to turn 28, he's in his prime, this board thinks that this is too old?
And yet other posters on here think 29 years old is too old for Lupul and that he's overpaid at $5.25 per and yet is a PPG player.

The day we start being a good team is the day we start paying our players for market value and not overvaluing them, and overpaying and the only way to be a good team is to shop smartly. If you shave a mill here and a mill there off most of your players, that gives you enough cap space to sign a truly elite player or more depth.

I don't want to be in cap hell like some of these other 'good teams' in the league like Vancouver and Montreal (before last year).

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01-20-2013, 06:50 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Given the Leafs overpaid Grabo, should they have let him walk or traded him for a first rd pick?

You probably won't admit this, but right now Bozak and Kadri are better options, did you watch the game last night?
So you're pointing to 1 game?

What if Grabo gets a hatty against Buf?

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01-20-2013, 06:53 PM
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTD View Post
Based on statistics alone from 2011-2012, other d-men that are in line with Phaneufs stats are:

Mark Streit: 4.1 mill
Dennis Wideman:5.25 mill
Kevin Bieksa: 4.6 mill
Ryan Sutter: 7.5 mill
Keith Yandle: 5.25 mill

Suter, Bieksa, Yandle were plus players. Based on this list, I see Phaneuf falling in somewhere around 5.25mill.

The summer of 2014, there will be a few very good d-men on the market, granted they don't resign with their teams or retire.

Bowmeester, Boyle, Markov, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi and Stuart.

I can see Boyle and Markov hanging them up by then.

So if you had to choose from Bowmeester, Meszaros, Letang, Girardi, Stuart or Phaneuf, who would you throw money at?
Here's a hint: Maybe, possibly, maybe, one of those names will actually reach the open UFA market.

Here's another hint: It won't be Letang or Girardi.

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