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2012-13 NHL Center Ice/Gamecenter Discussion Part III

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:37 AM
  #626
tomcatNYR
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Originally Posted by mck View Post
actually i don't think it's fixable because it's not a casual problem, in switzerland it's blacked out on purpose because it's theoretically possible to have espn america ... i don't think the nhl knows or cares about how it works in european countries or if that channel is available to your specific location or not, they just black it out. If you change your tv provider and pay to get 100 more channels just to get espn america, espn would probably not even gain 0.001$ out of it ..

Yeah, this is messed up. Well, actually they are well within their rights, but it lacks the logical thinking.

I live in Germany and have basic cable + the Sky Premium package, which doesn't include ESPN America for cable customers in my area (Kabel Deutschland, Niedersachsen). So for me to watch the NHL on ESPN America, I would have to buy the Kabel Deutschland Komfort HD Extra package for 29,90 euros per month. I already pay the 30,90 for Sky (Welt, Film, Sport, Bundesliga) so paying another 30 euros just to be able to watch ESPN America is definitely not worth it. You get the HD channels from RTL and other crap like 174 Turkish channels that nobody watches.

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01-22-2013, 01:35 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by HatchtrickBateman View Post
Not only does this service suck, but they make it nearly impossible to stay on the phone if you're calling the North American help line. Holy **** the first recorded voice is terribly annoying, followed by Jack Edwards calls while youre on hold.....

EDIT: on hold for 30 minutes, never even got to speak to a real person. Such a bogus service.
Call 30 mins before they close. That is what I did yesterday.. Good luck understanding the guy on the line but he did help me out.

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01-22-2013, 01:35 AM
  #628
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If anybody could help me on this, it would be greatly appreciated. I can sign in to gamecenter live, click watch game, screen loads like it is about to show the game, then turns around and brings me to the page that advertises gamecenter. I watched the first two dallas games this season, but now I can't see any. Not even the replay of the game hours later..

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01-22-2013, 02:33 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Note: I got blacked out for the live broadcast of the WPG @ BOS game (for no reason I can understand, and I submitted a complaint to tech support because of that), but I can watch the full-length replay of the same game normally.
That's not available to me, still blocked out. Mind you, I already watched it anyway.

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Old
01-22-2013, 04:21 AM
  #630
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Yesterday, 5 of the 6 games played on Sunday were up by 8:45 am Central European time, that's 2:45 am on the American East Coast. That's pretty good. The 6th game was added a few hours later.

Right now, it's 6 am Tuesday morning in Europe, midnight on the American East Coast, and the first 2 games from Monday are already available in full-length replays: TBL @ NYI and WPG @ BOS.

Note: I got blacked out for the live broadcast of the WPG @ BOS game (for no reason I can understand, and I submitted a complaint to tech support because of that), but I can watch the full-length replay of the same game normally.
You got blacked out for the WPG@BOS game because it was broadcasted Live on ESPN America. I'm pretty sure ESPN America acquired an exclusive rights license for all of their Live broadcasts.

I just had a look at ESPN America's schedule for this week. I'm pretty sure Gamecenter will be blacked out in Europe for the following games.
Week 21/1-3/2 (Times CET)
Mon 21/1 CHI@LA 9:30pm Repeat
Mon 21/1 WPG@BOS 7pm Live, 22/1 4:30pm Repeat
Wed 23/1 PHI@NJ 1:30am Live, 3:30pm Repeat
Thu 24/1 BOS@NYR 1:30am Live, 7pm Repeat
Fri 25/1 NYR@PHI 1am Live, 7pm Repeat
There are no further games scheduled on ESPN America, although I expect that by the end of the week we'll see updates of their broadcast schedule for the following week(s).

I guess the only way for the NHL to stop selling those exclusive rights TV licenses would be if the earnings from potential Gamecenter subscriptions outperform the earnings from those TV licensing fees.

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Old
01-22-2013, 04:36 AM
  #631
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My experiences so far this season are a mix of happy, annoyed and dismayed lol. I am based in the UK so I am subject to these annoying tinpot channel Premier Sports blackouts. I know people say you can get round them but I refuse to pay anyone else just to assist me in circumventing something which I believe shouldn't even be there! There isn't even any guarantees with these workarounds and I see people saying theirs isn't working etc etc. I just cant be bothered with any of that. I will take my blackouts on the chin begrudgingly and make so with what Gamecenter Live has to offer after blackouts. there are still plenty of games to watch and besides, during the week I cant watch anything with a late faceoff as I have to get to bed so I can watch them the night after anyway.

On opening night I had a nightmare with Gamecenter Live. I couldn't get the Xbox App to work at all. It kept saying it couldn't connect or something like that. At first I couldn't even get anything up on the laptop using a standard browser. After much perseverance I managed to get into the Senators @ Jets game. I then connected up the laptop up to the TV to watch the game properly.

I found the picture quality to be quite good but it seemed to be juddering. I cant really explain what I mean but if you saw it yourself you will understand. that said it was definitely watchable and we enjoyed it.

On Sunday morning/afternoon the Xbox app was working and I watched loads of condensed games through there. Spent a good few hours on it. Was very very impressed with the quality of the Xbox app. Once you get used to the controls its a joy to use. The videos on there of big hits, fights and various oddities such as a goal going in off someone's face and a team scoring in their own net by accident etc also made a good addition to the App. I hope to see more of these being added as well as the season progresses.

Last night we watched Lightning @ Islanders live and in full through the Xbox App. The other early faceoff was blacked out so this was our only option for some live action last night. This was our best experience so far. The quality was much better with hardly any juddering this time. the match was a good one to watch as well which helped.

Overall I am much more pleased than dismayed with what I am getting for my money from GCL and I am sure that the experience will get much better for us paying customers once the free period ends as well. Hasn't that ended now? I cant watch a live game tonight even if there is one on because I am busy but if theres something to watch Wednesday night I am confident it will be excellent and the best quality yet.

Pretty annoyed with Premier Sports for trying to rain on the UK NHL parade but we are still left with more than enough excellent quality hockey to watch.

OMG how I have missed the NHL! Hockey night is now every night with GCL

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Old
01-22-2013, 04:38 AM
  #632
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I got GameCenter lastnight... And watched first 10mins of Preds Vs Blues. I watched on 42" through Xbox360 and the quality was fine. I know alot of people are moaning on about 50/60fps

As I live in England will I have been given a PAL stream? or the original NTSC stream?

Cheers

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Old
01-22-2013, 04:52 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by cyberdork View Post
You got blacked out for the WPG@BOS game because it was broadcasted Live on ESPN America. I'm pretty sure ESPN America acquired an exclusive rights license for all of their Live broadcasts.
That's completely unacceptable. I have no access to any damn obscure ESPN America channel. It's not available where I live. I couldn't buy it even if I wanted to.

I'm not gonna give in, and I'll be pestering GCL tech support, sending complaint after complaint, until they give in.

"False advertising" is not permitted in the European Union. I bought the GCL package to get to watch all games this season, period. ESPN America is not a Slovak channel, and it cannot even be purchased by me. To withhold parts of what I paid for, on the basis of existence of some obscure, inaccessible, non-EU TV channel, amounts to defrauding the customer.

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01-22-2013, 05:36 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Note: I got blacked out for the live broadcast of the WPG @ BOS game (for no reason I can understand, and I submitted a complaint to tech support because of that), but I can watch the full-length replay of the same game normally.
hehe been reading your posts, good luck in trying to make them change their policy about blackouts, there are probably big contracts behind it and no way it's gonna change globally (now maybe they will change it for your ip if you bug them enough)

if you go to espn america site there is a combo at the top with a lot of countries, slovakia is in there so i guess that's why you get blackouts even if it's probably hard for you to even get the channel

my country can also have espn america if I buy some special overpriced package giving you lots of channels you will never watch (even if probably less than 2% of the population know this channel even exists or watch it).

but you say wpg @ bos is now available for you for full replay, consider yourself lucky, it's not for me, the full game is really not accessible for the full 48 hours, then after some time the 'condensed replay' is available (but for example the condensed wpg@bos is still not available for me now that the game is over for more than 10 hours) ... and to watch it you have to go the 'recap' page where the first thing you see is a big title giving you the score or at least the information about who won .. haha i just wonder who is behind this service at times

i wonder if i should have subscribed to the vault, and if then, i would maybe be able to watch the replays even if the live broadcast was blacked out ? I would have no problem with a 12 hours delay, but yeah 48 totally useless. With GCL i have the vault, but only for historical stuff < 2013, so it's useless.

I'm not really sure how this stuff work, and i think i'll just forget about it ..

that's life i guess

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Old
01-22-2013, 06:02 AM
  #635
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That's completely unacceptable. I have no access to any damn obscure ESPN America channel. It's not available where I live. I couldn't buy it even if I wanted to.

I'm not gonna give in, and I'll be pestering GCL tech support, sending complaint after complaint, until they give in.

"False advertising" is not permitted in the European Union. I bought the GCL package to get to watch all games this season, period. ESPN America is not a Slovak channel, and it cannot even be purchased by me. To withhold parts of what I paid for, on the basis of existence of some obscure, inaccessible, non-EU TV channel, amounts to defrauding the customer.
Well when you're shooting them a mail maybe ask where the promised 4500 kbps streams went.

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Old
01-22-2013, 06:04 AM
  #636
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If i'll subscribe to NHL vault, could i log in as premium user on gamecenter's iphone app?

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01-22-2013, 06:05 AM
  #637
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I guess the only way for the NHL to stop selling those exclusive rights TV licenses would be if the earnings from potential Gamecenter subscriptions outperform the earnings from those TV licensing fees.
Yep, that's how it probably is. Thankfully it's pretty easy to get around the restrictions...

The NHL is pretty unique in that regard also. Over the last 24 months I have had the NFL GamePass, MLB At bat and the NHL GameCenter.

The NHL are the only one who black out games in Europe. I've never had an NFL or an MLB game blacked out. Don't know how it is with the NBA.

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01-22-2013, 06:05 AM
  #638
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That's completely unacceptable. I have no access to any damn obscure ESPN America channel. It's not available where I live. I couldn't buy it even if I wanted to.

I'm not gonna give in, and I'll be pestering GCL live support, sending complaint after complaint, until they give in.

"False advertising" is not permitted in the European Union. I bought the GCL package to get to watch all games this season, period. ESPN America is not a Slovak channel, and it cannot even be purchased by me. To withhold parts of what I paid for, on the basis of existence of some obscure, inaccessible, non-EU TV channel, amounts to defrauding the customer.
Hmm, you might have a good argument with the "False advertising" claim.

But I just checked the ESPN America website and they say that in Slovakia it's available via Slovak Telekom and UPC: http://www.espnamerica.com/sk/f2/get-espn-america

Obviously with their unclear black-out policy in Europe the NHL is not doing itself a favour.
One reason why I don't have a subscription and download replays somewhere else...

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Old
01-22-2013, 06:41 AM
  #639
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That's absolute garbage what if there's two people living in the same household... I can understand why they'd want to limit it to 2 simultaneously, but 1?

Also what's the deal with the PS3 app is it not available yet I keep getting conflicting information between the two parties. I downloaded the app but I can't figure out how to link it with my gamecenter account.
I haven't tried it yet on 2 things since the connection has been shotty since the start of the season for me (guessing they're working on things), but I would think they mean 1 IP address. So if both people are connected to the same network, it should work. Meaning the same household can use it, but you can't share it with your friend across town. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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01-22-2013, 06:46 AM
  #640
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The support is returning boilerplate, automated replies via email for now, with irrelevant excerpts from FAQ.

However, the message says at the bottom, you should reply if their feedback doesn't satisfy you. So I sent off a reply, and the conversation will continue later, hopefully with a live person. They must be overwhelmed these days, so I'm willing to give them some slack.
That's what annoys me about everyone whining that this is a horrible product. People need to be patient. Yes they dropped the ball but they're working on it. I'm sure they're well aware of how unsatisfied everyone is right now.

When I used to play NHL, EA used to do this all the time. Used to take a week to get the servers running properly. It happens. The best they could do is prepare for it. That's probably why it took days instead of weeks to fix the problems.

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01-22-2013, 06:46 AM
  #641
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You can use it on multiple devices from the same IP, but not with multiple IPs at the same time.

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Old
01-22-2013, 06:51 AM
  #642
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Hmm, you might have a good argument with the "False advertising" claim.

But I just checked the ESPN America website and they say that in Slovakia it's available via Slovak Telekom and UPC: http://www.espnamerica.com/sk/f2/get-espn-america

Obviously with their unclear black-out policy in Europe the NHL is not doing itself a favour.
One reason why I don't have a subscription and download replays somewhere else...
I'm afraid their general blackout policy is clear, it's written in the Terms of Service, it says:
Quote:
With respect to NHL GameCenter LIVE, during the regular NHL season and NHL playoff games ... if ... a National Hockey League game is being televised nationally in your country or programming area, the scheduled webcast ... of the nationally televised game(s) ... will be blacked out and not available for live game viewing.
They don't say anything about "this applies to the US and Canada only". Also, someone has posted a link here with the NHL broadcast partners for particular countries: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=74583, ESPN America is listed to be all over Europe except for the Nordic countries, the UK and Spain.

The problem has been the incompetent staff at the customer support - they seemed to get to know about blockouts in Europe this year only from the people being blocked out! Firstly, they were replying "no blackouts in Europe", then "blackouts only in the US, Canada and the UK", later "blackouts in the US, Canada, the UK and selected European countries", but we ended up with black-outs almost everywhere..

Of course, it is possible to get around blackouts (while violating the terms of service), and someone has also mentioned that last year, it was possible to send an e-mail 10 minutes before the game starts with your IP and they would unblock the stream for you, but again, a lost has changed since the last year..

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01-22-2013, 06:52 AM
  #643
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i wonder if i should have subscribed to the vault, and if then, i would maybe be able to watch the replays even if the live broadcast was blacked out ? I would have no problem with a 12 hours delay, but yeah 48 totally useless. With GCL i have the vault, but only for historical stuff < 2013, so it's useless.
In theory yes. In practice? Vault is suffering problems as well. At present only games from June 2012 or earlier are available. I've received a response from Customer Support but no progress yet...

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01-22-2013, 06:53 AM
  #644
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That's what annoys me about everyone whining that this is a horrible product. People need to be patient. Yes they dropped the ball but they're working on it. I'm sure they're well aware of how unsatisfied everyone is right now.
As far as stream quality and reliability is concerned I agree.
I disagree when it comes to blackouts. Customer service kept telling people there won't be any in Europe up until a couple of hours prior to puckdrop. And for that they deserve all the crap that's coming their way.

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01-22-2013, 06:55 AM
  #645
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That's completely unacceptable. I have no access to any damn obscure ESPN America channel. It's not available where I live. I couldn't buy it even if I wanted to.

I'm not gonna give in, and I'll be pestering GCL tech support, sending complaint after complaint, until they give in.

"False advertising" is not permitted in the European Union. I bought the GCL package to get to watch all games this season, period. ESPN America is not a Slovak channel, and it cannot even be purchased by me. To withhold parts of what I paid for, on the basis of existence of some obscure, inaccessible, non-EU TV channel, amounts to defrauding the customer.
I don't know how if the European GCL differs from the North American, but be aware that GCL advertises "Up to 40 out-of-market games per week." I don't know what "in your market" would be in Europe, but just be aware while you want to watch "all" games they don't advertise that "all" games will be available.

If you're going to push them, I highly recommend you don't come off sounding like an angry customer. I would take a shot in the dark that they likely have minimal knowledge on the European television market. Come into it trying to work with them and they might listen. If you come into it sounding like "do as I say" you're never going to get much of a reply from them.

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01-22-2013, 06:58 AM
  #646
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As far as stream quality and reliability is concerned I agree.
I disagree when it comes to blackouts. Customer service kept telling people there won't be any in Europe up until a couple of hours prior to puckdrop. And for that they deserve all the crap that's coming their way.
Alright I missed that part all together. I take back my previous post, that's pretty false advertising.

Blackouts aren't that bad of a problem here in the US, at least from my few days experience. Anything on TV was on TV, anything that wasn't, I never got a "blackout" notice.

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01-22-2013, 07:04 AM
  #647
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I'm afraid their general blackout policy is clear, it's written in the Terms of Service, it says:


They don't say anything about "this applies to the US and Canada only". Also, someone has posted a link here with the NHL broadcast partners for particular countries: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=74583, ESPN America is listed to be all over Europe except for the Nordic countries, the UK and Spain.

The problem has been the incompetent staff at the customer support - they seemed to get to know about blockouts in Europe this year only from the people being blocked out! Firstly, they were replying "no blackouts in Europe", then "blackouts only in the US, Canada and the UK", later "blackouts in the US, Canada, the UK and selected European countries", but we ended up with black-outs almost everywhere..

Of course, it is possible to get around blackouts (while violating the terms of service), and someone has also mentioned that last year, it was possible to send an e-mail 10 minutes before the game starts with your IP and they would unblock the stream for you, but again, a lost has changed since the last year..
I remember hearing things similar happening in the US.

After the 2004-2005 lockout, when ESPN dropped the NHL and went to Outdoor Life Network/Versus/NBC Sports Network, there were people who were in the Flyers market that didn't have Versus, but since the game was nationally televised they had no means of watching it.

Similar situation with DirecTV. For the longest time, Comcast Sportsnet (local sports channel) wasn't available for DirecTV. So people in the Philadelphia area had no way of watching Flyers games. In a similar fashion, a few years ago when my friend (with DirecTV) got Center Ice, Flyers games would be blacked on Center Ice because of the restriction, so he had no ability to watch the game. Friend was a Penguins fan (go figure) so he didn't care.

It sucks, but sometimes it happens. The false advertising part is annoying and how customer support changed their stance, but if it's in the Terms of Service, you agreed to it, sorry to say but you're not going ot get much done, because legally you acknowledged those restrictions. Whether you read the TOS or not.

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01-22-2013, 07:04 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
That's what annoys me about everyone whining that this is a horrible product. People need to be patient. Yes they dropped the ball but they're working on it. I'm sure they're well aware of how unsatisfied everyone is right now.

When I used to play NHL, EA used to do this all the time. Used to take a week to get the servers running properly. It happens. The best they could do is prepare for it. That's probably why it took days instead of weeks to fix the problems.
See, this is the problem. It's possible to cancel the subscription within 5 days after the initial subscription and get a full refund, so being patient isn't that much of an option for some people.

Of course they're working on it, there is this good example with the PiP and mosaic view (which works awesomely now), but there are still some unresolved issues (e.g. with blackouts - they don't even know who is blocked out!) and the time is ticking..

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01-22-2013, 07:08 AM
  #649
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See, this is the problem. It's possible to cancel the subscription within 5 days after the initial subscription and get a full refund, so being patient isn't that much of an option for some people.

Of course they're working on it, there is this good example with the PiP and mosaic view (which works awesomely now), but there are still some unresolved issues (e.g. with blackouts - they don't even know who is blocked out!) and the time is ticking..
Sadly, that's how the game is being played right now. Trust me I agree that you guys are being screwed, but that's just how it is. If people are concerned, cancel the subscription before 5 days is up, wait a week or 2 to see from people on this thread if the problem has been fixed, then sign up again.

Also the "be patient" I was thinking more of the mindset of the North American viewer when I wrote that. European viewer...completely different scenario.

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01-22-2013, 07:09 AM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Pourquoi pas View Post
I'm afraid their general blackout policy is clear, it's written in the Terms of Service, it says:


They don't say anything about "this applies to the US and Canada only". Also, someone has posted a link here with the NHL broadcast partners for particular countries: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=74583, ESPN America is listed to be all over Europe except for the Nordic countries, the UK and Spain.
Thanks for the link. I was on the Gamecenter Live FAQ page and tried to find exactly this information, but only found the page for checking North American zip codes.

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