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Monday Night Raw Discussion Thread #38

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:25 PM
  #676
Engebretson
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It's possible that Heyman set up the Shield and Maddox behind Punks back... after all, he was escorted out before the confrontation. Could end up being a Brock v Punk angle.
True, Punk was "escorted from the building" for the reveal so we don't yet know his reaction to it, but I just don't think they're smart enough to write that. Plus, I really hope they're not going to turn Punk face again so soon and that's more than likely what a Punk/Lesnar feud would become.

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01-30-2013, 10:38 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Engebretson View Post
True, Punk was "escorted from the building" for the reveal so we don't yet know his reaction to it, but I just don't think they're smart enough to write that. Plus, I really hope they're not going to turn Punk face again so soon and that's more than likely what a Punk/Lesnar feud would become.
Punk/Brock feud could turn hims face or tweener again but it doesn't need to happen quickly. I can imagine it becoming to a Heyman having to choose over Brock and Punk. Let's face it, stereotypical, cowardly heel Punk is boring as hell, as evidenced by the crowd reactions of either cheers (because they still like him)or silence. The pipebomb Punk that speaks his mind on the mic and proves in the ring that he is the best in the world, whether he's a face or heel, is the kind of a person people want to watch. Since the fans will care more about such a character, he'll get face pops which means he can't be booked as heel all the time. He should be a no-nonsense tweener that will take on both faces and heels.

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01-31-2013, 07:01 AM
  #678
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Heyman still cuts the best promo's in the biz eh?

TBH I do not want to see Rock/Cena at WM, we all know what the result will be, Cena is probably the biggest reason i wait to watch raw on DVR and even then sometimes I don't bother. His character is so boring and stale, he mails it in so many nights now and maybe the little kiddy's don't see it but I do.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/...ing-john-cena/

This article explains it so well, instead of being able to make new main eventers we always end back with Cena getting back in title matches regardless of whether he deserves it or not. it's the same old crap "WELP LET'S JUST THROW CENA IN A TITLE MATCH" but the ratings breakdowns are showing people are getting sick of Cena's act, and the same old script, he is turning into Hulk Hogan before Hogan turned heel.

The only way to re-energize Cena's career is to turn him HEEL. The guy has talent but his act has worn thin, he is so boring and his promo's are just garbage

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01-31-2013, 07:50 AM
  #679
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Heyman still cuts the best promo's in the biz eh?

TBH I do not want to see Rock/Cena at WM, we all know what the result will be, Cena is probably the biggest reason i wait to watch raw on DVR and even then sometimes I don't bother. His character is so boring and stale, he mails it in so many nights now and maybe the little kiddy's don't see it but I do.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/...ing-john-cena/

This article explains it so well, instead of being able to make new main eventers we always end back with Cena getting back in title matches regardless of whether he deserves it or not. it's the same old crap "WELP LET'S JUST THROW CENA IN A TITLE MATCH" but the ratings breakdowns are showing people are getting sick of Cena's act, and the same old script, he is turning into Hulk Hogan before Hogan turned heel.

The only way to re-energize Cena's career is to turn him HEEL. The guy has talent but his act has worn thin, he is so boring and his promo's are just garbage
I stopped watching wrestling when Cena was getting his huge push 5+ years back. Cannot stand him, a bunch of my other favourite wrestlers were leaving the Biz so it all made sense.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:01 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The pipebomb Punk that speaks his mind on the mic and proves in the ring that he is the best in the world, whether he's a face or heel, is the kind of a person people want to watch. Since the fans will care more about such a character, he'll get face pops which means he can't be booked as heel all the time. He should be a no-nonsense tweener that will take on both faces and heels.
I definitely agree and I really wish they would go back to making Punk a tweener. Full-on face Punk was okay but not nearly as entertaining as tweener Punk, although I'm not sure how soon they would turn Punk back into a tweener.

Sometimes (prep your tinfoil hats), I feel like Punk as a tweener (during Summer 2011) got so hot that they needed to cool him down a little bit to get a certain boy scout back in the spotlight. I feel like they gave him the belt to shut him up and then put him in secondary feuds while Cena took the PPV Main Events. Like I said, call me a conspiracy theorist but it amazes me how RED HOT Punk was only to cool down to the point where he pretty much requested to turn heel again.

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01-31-2013, 09:18 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Engebretson View Post
I definitely agree and I really wish they would go back to making Punk a tweener. Full-on face Punk was okay but not nearly as entertaining as tweener Punk, although I'm not sure how soon they would turn Punk back into a tweener.

Sometimes (prep your tinfoil hats), I feel like Punk as a tweener (during Summer 2011) got so hot that they needed to cool him down a little bit to get a certain boy scout back in the spotlight. I feel like they gave him the belt to shut him up and then put him in secondary feuds while Cena took the PPV Main Events. Like I said, call me a conspiracy theorist but it amazes me how RED HOT Punk was only to cool down to the point where he pretty much requested to turn heel again.
They have the perfect opportunity to turn punk into a tweener now with the Shield/Maddox stuff. It's very easy to say that Punk knew nothing about it, he can cut similar promos to what he's been doing, just lay off the blatant attacks on the fans. It's not that hard and there's a perfect opportunity here.

That said, when has the WWE ever embraced a tweener?

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01-31-2013, 09:29 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
They have the perfect opportunity to turn punk into a tweener now with the Shield/Maddox stuff. It's very easy to say that Punk knew nothing about it, he can cut similar promos to what he's been doing, just lay off the blatant attacks on the fans. It's not that hard and there's a perfect opportunity here.

That said, when has the WWE ever embraced a tweener?
Had they not gone that traditional heel route, he'd still probably be a tweener.

Chris Jericho, before he became the undisputed champion, didn't have trouble mouthing off and challenging both faces and heels. Neither did The Rock I guess. Or Austin.

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01-31-2013, 09:32 AM
  #683
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I was going to say Austin. Even as a face, he'd kick the crap out of anybody that pissed him off, face or heel.

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01-31-2013, 09:36 AM
  #684
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That said, when has the WWE ever embraced a tweener?
Recently? They haven't, because those characters can be a little edgier and the cookie cutter writing for most characters in the current product is full-on face or full-on heel, especially with the PG era. With Punk they have the perfect tweener character but they insist on making him either a total face or a total heel.

Austin is the perfect example of the company getting behind a tweener. When they had all of the recent JR interviews with both Austin and Punk you could see so many similarities between the two. Punk could be that tweener but I feel like the company just doesn't want him to be in the main spotlight.

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01-31-2013, 11:24 AM
  #685
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TLC 2012 did 170,000 buys. TLC 2011 did 179,000 buys.

TLC 11: CM Punk main events, no John Cena on the card - 179,000 buys
TLC 12: John Cena main events, no CM Punk on the card - 170,000 buys



Also, when John Cena wasn't on the card for Hell in a Cell and Punk headlined with Ryback, the show did around 200,000 buys.

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01-31-2013, 01:57 PM
  #686
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I'm trying to think of a way they could write the Punk didn't know about it angle and eventually feud with Lesnar. Maybe have Heyman manage them both, like Vicki did with Ziggler and Swagger? Create that kind of uneasy tension between the two. Have them make subtle jabs at each other in promos, copy each others moves in matches, etc.

Eventually Lesnar just goes ape **** and destroys Punk, leading to fallout at a PPV.

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01-31-2013, 02:00 PM
  #687
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Quote:
- Wrestlemania 28 was the best selling sports DVD of 2012. CM Punk's DVD was #4 and The Rock's DVD set was #5.


Quote:
The Rock and CM Punk were rehearsing their Royal Rumble match on Sunday afternoon before the show. The finish was kept secret from the rest of the WWE locker room, and WWE put a curtain around the ring so no one else could see it.

Some Punk fans have been upset that Punk was pinned by the People's Elbow and not the Rock Bottom. The reasoning was that since Punk was saying the "people don't matter" so Rock beat him with the People's Elbow.

The Rock is set to give the WWE title lots of exposure as he promotes his upcoming movies before Wrestlemania 29.
Source: Wrestling Observer

I just hope Punk-Cena-Rock happens at WM.

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01-31-2013, 03:13 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
TLC 2012 did 170,000 buys. TLC 2011 did 179,000 buys.

TLC 11: CM Punk main events, no John Cena on the card - 179,000 buys
TLC 12: John Cena main events, no CM Punk on the card - 170,000 buys



Also, when John Cena wasn't on the card for Hell in a Cell and Punk headlined with Ryback, the show did around 200,000 buys.
TLC 2012 also had the disadvantage of no title match though and a main event that had to be thrown together at the last minute.

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01-31-2013, 10:19 PM
  #689
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I liked Otunga's tweet(?) that said he questioned the "legality" of re-starting the match. I wish they would go back to giving Otunga a bigger non-wrestling role. He's great at it.

Also, I'd like to see some bigger things from the Shield. They need some matches. Or do something more extreme than just 3 on 1 against a star wrestler. They are running the risk of being stagnant.

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01-31-2013, 10:25 PM
  #690
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Not sure if THIS needed it's own thread...


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Old
02-01-2013, 12:09 AM
  #691
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I liked Otunga's tweet(?) that said he questioned the "legality" of re-starting the match. I wish they would go back to giving Otunga a bigger non-wrestling role. He's great at it.

Also, I'd like to see some bigger things from the Shield. They need some matches. Or do something more extreme than just 3 on 1 against a star wrestler. They are running the risk of being stagnant.
I would agree with you about The Shield...I think that it's just unacceptable that they've only had 1 match since their debut, and it was a PPV match.

It's appalling that the WWE isn't utilizing Rollins or Ambrose right now, and for all we know, Reigns can be a better "monster force" than Ryback, but we're apparently not going to find out for a while.

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02-01-2013, 02:55 AM
  #692
KEEROLE Vatanen
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I stopped watching wrestling when Cena was getting his huge push 5+ years back. Cannot stand him, a bunch of my other favourite wrestlers were leaving the Biz so it all made sense.
He can have good matches with the right opponents, but he uses the same damn script for all his matches, save the squashes
-get beat down
-2 shoulder blocks
-5 knuckle shuffle
-AA/****

then we hear cole and lawler cheer as cena once again over comes all the odds! Cena hasn't added a damn wrinkle to his character in 4-5 years.

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02-01-2013, 03:42 AM
  #693
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I remember when they brought Cena out for that Doctor of Thuganomics flashback before Cena/Rock 1..I seriously miss that Cena :/



Went nuts when I heard the music.


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02-01-2013, 03:50 AM
  #694
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BTW..

Fatal Four Way at Wrestlemania:

Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Rock

Won't happen but you never know I suppose.

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02-01-2013, 04:54 AM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foy View Post
They have the perfect opportunity to turn punk into a tweener now with the Shield/Maddox stuff. It's very easy to say that Punk knew nothing about it, he can cut similar promos to what he's been doing, just lay off the blatant attacks on the fans. It's not that hard and there's a perfect opportunity here.

That said, when has the WWE ever embraced a tweener?
I agree. I can't think of a better time for a turn. It's teed up perfectly. Frankly, I've never understood why punk ever 'needed' heyman to begin with. I hope this is the start of a turn.

As to the poster above re: needing to see bigger things from the shield. It's been needed for a long time now. To me, their debut was strong, Ryback's character was still green I'll say. The perceived injustice was apparent. After that, their attacks vs just about everyone else were way too random for me to jump on the storyline. Especially without getting in the ring in an actual match. Them jumping the rock and cena... Eh, I guess you could say there were injustices w both. The rest of the roster... Give me a reason for the beatdown, give it a story for the universe to get behind and say 'yeah, they're right!'. The potential is there. Turn the page and let's see if they can live up to it.

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02-01-2013, 05:31 AM
  #696
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I agree. I can't think of a better time for a turn. It's teed up perfectly. Frankly, I've never understood why punk ever 'needed' heyman to begin with. I hope this is the start of a turn.
because they wanted to turn Punk and try as they might, and as good as Punk is, the crowd had pretty much zero interest in Punk turning heel, even at this point a lot of the crowd don't want to boo him. People didn't want to buy this crap about Punk turning his back on the WWE Universe and so on. At least with Heyman, the non smarks started booing Punk again.

and they get on well with each other in real life and probably wanted to work together, it's not like Heyman hurts Punk in any way, he draws more heat to him which can only be a good thing. If they are enjoying themselves and no harm is being done, what is the problem?

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02-01-2013, 10:11 AM
  #697
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So they rehearsed "the finish" to the match before the Rumble ppv, with a curtain around the ring? There was nothing to rehearse in the finish it was a simple signature move. Now, if they were rehearsing just basic ring work together since I don't think they've ever worked with each other, that makes sense. I don't know that it requires a curtain though.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #698
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
So they rehearsed "the finish" to the match before the Rumble ppv, with a curtain around the ring? There was nothing to rehearse in the finish it was a simple signature move. Now, if they were rehearsing just basic ring work together since I don't think they've ever worked with each other, that makes sense. I don't know that it requires a curtain though.
I read that and was confused as well. If Rock were to finish off Punk with a GTS, then I'd say yeah, keep that behind a curtain. Just not sure why they would need to keep the finish that actually happened under wraps.

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02-01-2013, 11:31 AM
  #699
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As to the poster above re: needing to see bigger things from the shield. It's been needed for a long time now. To me, their debut was strong, Ryback's character was still green I'll say. The perceived injustice was apparent. After that, their attacks vs just about everyone else were way too random for me to jump on the storyline. Especially without getting in the ring in an actual match. Them jumping the rock and cena... Eh, I guess you could say there were injustices w both. The rest of the roster... Give me a reason for the beatdown, give it a story for the universe to get behind and say 'yeah, they're right!'. The potential is there. Turn the page and let's see if they can live up to it.
I could see a change happening now since they are now revealed to essentially be mercenary thugs for hire, but why reveal that about them right after they had just taken out Cena, Sheamus and Ryback in the previous show?!?

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02-01-2013, 11:34 AM
  #700
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Originally Posted by Engebretson View Post
I read that and was confused as well. If Rock were to finish off Punk with a GTS, then I'd say yeah, keep that behind a curtain. Just not sure why they would need to keep the finish that actually happened under wraps.
Exactly. I'd be willing to bet they were just rehearsing some counters and getting their communication on the same page. There was no finish to rehearse.

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