HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Notices

Ellis should start Tuesday.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-20-2013, 10:16 AM
  #1
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Ellis should start Tuesday.

Let me preface this that I am big Cam Ward supporter and personally think that he sometimes gets a bad rap from Canes fans - He is without a doubt a top level goalie in this league albeit a notch below the real elites like Lundquist.

That being said I think Ellis should start on Tuesday in the home opener. A message has to be sent that the crap we saw yesterday is inexcusable. I am not campaigning that Ellis will in any way take Cam's job but Cam has never had to look over his shoulder at any real type of competition for his minutes. Send a message and send it early.

Just the same - Corvo should be sat for Mcbain, set the tone early that some crap just won't be tolerated.

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:18 AM
  #2
What the Faulk
The Real Swede Shady
 
What the Faulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 25,733
vCash: 500
No he shouldn't.

What the Faulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:24 AM
  #3
Novacane
My Hero
 
Novacane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 17,721
vCash: 500
Ward will be the starter no doubt. Can't say I agree/disagree with it, but the Caniacs would have a fit if he didn't start out between the pipes on opening night.

Novacane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:25 AM
  #4
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
No he shouldn't.
Thanks for the well thought out post.

Cam has started off slow the last several years - We cannot afford for that to happen in a 48 game season.

This is about this year, here and now, not rewarding someone for the past. Ellis earned the opportunity to get the start. Win or lose Tuesday come back with Cam against the Slugs.

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:29 AM
  #5
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
Ward will be the starter no doubt. Can't say I agree/disagree with it, but the Caniacs would have a fit if he didn't start out between the pipes on opening night.
I agree - it will never happen, that is why I said "should".

I will go out on a limb and say against the firepower of Tampa - Cam doesn't make it to the second period again.

I will reiterate I am a huge Cam supporter - even own a home, away and 3rd Ward jersey.

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #6
Psyduck
cephalalgia
 
Psyduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,299
vCash: 500
I can see arguments for both starting. There are two questions. First, which goalie gives us the chance to win right now? I'd say that is Ellis as he is in game shape. If we started Ellis for a while the hope would be that Cam would get more practice time to get back in the swing of things.

Another question is what is best for the long term? The answer to that may be to start Cam and give him the playing time to get back into game shape. Who knows, maybe Cam starts Tuesday and puts in a great game. I think he is an elite goaltender and given the playing time should return to form. The cost may be losing a few games in a shortened season.

I'd lean towards starting Ellis because I think he gives us the best chance to win right now. However, Cam will likely start and I can see arguments as to why that'd be a good choice too.

Psyduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:36 AM
  #7
echlfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 916
vCash: 500
A rusty first game for everyone. You don't change starters after one game. Cam needs to know that he is the starter and that he has the support of his coach and team.

Cam should start again!

echlfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:41 AM
  #8
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Cam needs to know that he is the starter

That is the mentality I am afraid of. Cam needs to know that he has to earn the starting job and that it is not his by default (as it has always been).

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:48 AM
  #9
What the Faulk
The Real Swede Shady
 
What the Faulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 25,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
Thanks for the well thought out post.

Cam has started off slow the last several years - We cannot afford for that to happen in a 48 game season.

This is about this year, here and now, not rewarding someone for the past. Ellis earned the opportunity to get the start. Win or lose Tuesday come back with Cam against the Slugs.
I guess Cam Ward is about to become the new whipping boy on this board for some reason based on a bunch of posts I've been reading today and last night. He definitely has some off games, but he's also been behind probably one of the league's worst defenses for his entire career. That matters.

The only way for Cam to get into game shape is to actually play. You're going to have to play through the rust (the entire team is), and starting Ellis achieves the opposite. Call it growing pains. The more you start Ellis and delay the start to Ward's season, the more you're not putting the most optimal team on the ice and the more they suffer as a whole. And in a shortened season, that's not the best course of action. You don't get into game shape via practice, as evidenced by the skating sessions at the RCI not amounting to much.

Half the league came out rusty last night. The Kings looked dreadful. The EC favorite Rangers only scored once, Columbus and Toronto actually won, Detroit was shut out 6-0, Cory Schneider and the Canucks gave up 7 goals at home. It's something a lot of clubs are working through. Ward and this team are no exceptions. I'm not willing to completely write off last night, but we can't look into it more than what it was--a road game after 9 months of no meaningful hockey vs. the defending Southeast champions in their home opener where they raised the banner.

Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey
As per @goldieonice , only Montreal, Philadelphia & St. Louis had higher opening night attendance on Saturday than the Florida Panthers.

I'll bet no one was aware of that. We're all so used to the PNC's home ice advantage, we forget that it exists elsewhere as well.

The only way I can get on board with starting Ellis is if Cam's still sick, and since he played last night I doubt that will be the case on Tuesday.

What the Faulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 10:57 AM
  #10
Identity404
Unknown Pleasures
 
Identity404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Ward was hot garbage last night, as was almost all of the team, but I am going to give him a free pass. His wife just had their second child. I'm sure he hasn't been getting a lot of sleep and he just had the flu. Hopefully he comes around soon....

Identity404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #11
WWAD
Registered User
 
WWAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 890
vCash: 500
For all those saying no, start Ward, does it change your mind if Ward gets yanked after the first period again?

WWAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #12
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,573
vCash: 807
I also think that Eric Staal should be a healthy scratch today. He was nowhere to be seen last night, and in a 48 game season we can't afford to put in guys that aren't gonna make a difference.

Guys like Westgarth or Welsh have earned their chance. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it should.

Anton Dubinchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #13
Oenatzu
Chad-in-the-Box
 
Oenatzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Cam, like many of the other goaltenders in the league were, was rusty but what can you expect after months of break. Give him time and starts and he'll come around. And the sooner he'll get back on his routine the better it is for the team. I wouldn't do any changes after the first game of the season.

Oenatzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:07 AM
  #14
normalpsychology
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mass
Posts: 903
vCash: 50
wasn't he given the baby excuse last year also? he's a professional he needs to work through this or be a back up if he can't handle it.

i agree with OP. it's this "ward can do no wrong, he is the starter, end of story period." mentality that led him to being number 22 in the league in save percentage last year. If we're more of an offensive team you NEED your goalie to perform better than 22nd in the league if you want to make the playoffs.

Ellis earned the start and Ward should have to earn it back.

normalpsychology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #15
normalpsychology
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mass
Posts: 903
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oenatzu View Post
Cam, like many of the other goaltenders in the league were, was rusty but what can you expect after months of break.
How many of those other goalies let through 4 out of 12 shots?

Looks like only Schneider did marginally worse. And he's a back up.

normalpsychology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #16
Sad King Jimmy
That's hockey baby!
 
Sad King Jimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Raleigh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 50
just trade him he sucks

Sad King Jimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:15 AM
  #17
Head Goose
Doing Less Better
 
Head Goose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Raleigh
Country: United States
Posts: 6,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonfortheHart View Post
just kill him he sucks
Slight edit...

Head Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:16 AM
  #18
Oenatzu
Chad-in-the-Box
 
Oenatzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennay Kekua View Post
How many of those other goalies let through 4 out of 12 shots?

Looks like only Schneider did marginally worse. And he's a back up.
How many of the other teams play Joe Corvo as their top three defenseman?
You can't hold Cam responsible alone for all the goals when the defense does nothing to help him.

Oenatzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #19
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
I also think that Eric Staal should be a healthy scratch today. He was nowhere to be seen last night, and in a 48 game season we can't afford to put in guys that aren't gonna make a difference.

Guys like Westgarth or Welsh have earned their chance. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it should.
That statement is just plain asinine - comparing apples and oranges with a ridiculous response to serious post. Ellis has been a starter in this league, to even mention Westgarth and Welsh in the breath to E Staal is retarded.

Serious question - Which is better for the long term this season:

A) Ellis getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and Cam coming in relief with no pressure.

B) Ward getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and for the second straight game not making it to the second period.

I would say option A, and with our defense Stamkos may just have a natural hatrick before the first period is over.

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:21 AM
  #20
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 31,505
vCash: 500
I think we're already in danger of overstating Ellis' value to the team. He rarely faced pressure last night and surrendered a goal that was banked off his rear end a couple seconds after the same player tried the same move on the other side of the net.

Ward was bad last night. No getting around that. The conventional approach to improving people's performance is to give them some constructive criticism followed by an opportunity to improve. Not to humiliate them at an important event by having their understudy take over.

What if Ellis craps the bed early on Tuesday? Do you stick Ward back in there, cold, in another losing effort? That is a very real possibility and a good way to mind-f him completely.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #21
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
That statement is just plain asinine - comparing apples and oranges with a ridiculous response to serious post. Ellis has been a starter in this league, to even mention Westgarth and Welsh in the breath to E Staal is retarded.

Serious question - Which is better for the long term this season:

A) Ellis getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and Cam coming in relief with no pressure.

B) Ward getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and for the second straight game not making it to the second period.

I would say option A, and with our defense Stamkos may just have a natural hatrick before the first period is over.
You act as if those are the only two options.

How about option C? Ward realizes he has a **** game, and bounces back with a great performance...like he's done after every other **** game he's had

Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #22
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,573
vCash: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
That statement is just plain asinine - comparing apples and oranges with a ridiculous response to serious post. Ellis has been a starter in this league, to even mention Westgarth and Welsh in the breath to E Staal is retarded.

Serious question - Which is better for the long term this season:

A) Ellis getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and Cam coming in relief with no pressure.

B) Ward getting torched for 4 goals in the first period against Tampa and for the second straight game not making it to the second period.

I would say option A, and with our defense Stamkos may just have a natural hatrick before the first period is over.
If you're actually ASSUMING, not holding the possibility but ASSUMING, that we're going to give up 4 goals in the first period again REGARDLESS of who starts in net, in the end it doesn't really matter who starts for us because you're assuming we're the worst team in the league.

Cam is the starter of this team. It's not about "needing to let HIM know he's the starter." He's the starter. And until you give him more than 1 period to get back into the swing of things he will (and should) remain the starter. For all this criticism we've been hearing of Cam the last several hours (and some of it warranted), you guys would be MUCH unhappier with Dan Ellis as the starter, plain and simple.

Anton Dubinchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  #23
Clark Gillies
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post

Not to humiliate them at an important event by having their understudy take over.

What if Ellis craps the bed early on Tuesday? Do you stick Ward back in there, cold, in another losing effort? That is a very real possibility and a good way to mind-f him completely.
If that really mind - F's him then he does not have the mental fortitude to be an NHL goalie. It won't because Cam does have the mental toughness for this game.
It is not humiliation - it is sending a message, he cannot start this season like he did last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
You act as if those are the only two options.

How about option C? Ward realizes he has a **** game, and bounces back with a great performance...like he's done after every other **** game he's had
Cam has historically had bad stretches and does not typically bounce back after just one as you suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post

Cam is the starter of this team. It's not about "needing to let HIM know he's the starter." He's the starter. And until you give him more than 1 period to get back into the swing of things he will (and should) remain the starter. For all this criticism we've been hearing of Cam the last several hours (and some of it warranted), you guys would be MUCH unhappier with Dan Ellis as the starter, plain and simple.
Once again - if you actually read all of my posts - I have never suggested that Ellis would take over as the starter. He should however get much more playing time than any understudy Cam has had since he has been here.

My opinion is more about protected Cam for the best interest of this season, and it is not by getting torched by Tampa.

I think many of you are seriously underrating Ellis - he was phenomenal for a stretch in Nashville. His career NHL GAA is lower than Cams, almost the same save % and more shutouts per games played.

*** Just for the record**** Cam started the home opener in 2005 even though Martin Gerber was the undisputed "starter".

Clark Gillies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 12:00 PM
  #24
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,573
vCash: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
*** Just for the record**** Cam started the home opener in 2005 even though Martin Gerber was the undisputed "starter".
Not that it really matters for this discussion, but Cam started the year as the starter. Gerber didn't actually become the starter until that sweet Ottawa game he had (forget if it was the one in October or November).


Do you want Cam to be the starter this year? Or do you want it to be a competition going with the hot hand? Your last several posts have contradicted each other in that regard...

Anton Dubinchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2013, 12:30 PM
  #25
halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
 
halleJOKEL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NC
Country: United States
Posts: 4,632
vCash: 500
This board is almost painful to read at this point. What the **** happened over the lockout?

halleJOKEL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.