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Old
01-20-2013, 12:38 AM
  #26
GoAwayDanCleary
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
This team played like there were a ton of new players trying to learn the system and gel... oh wait!

Kenny Holland should have started training camp in Traverse City back in September, DAMN YOU KENNY!!! Oh wait...

Kenny Holland should sign players that don't need to gel with a new team... Oh wait!

This game was a loss regardless who was on the team, we could have had Suter, Parise, Lidstrom, Helm and Hossa... and we were still losing.

When you inject so much new talent, teams need time to gel. The hope is they gel before it is too late.
What if the new talent just isn't good enough? We replaced Lidstrom and Stuart with Colaiacovo and Smith...

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01-20-2013, 12:39 AM
  #27
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And Hudler in his prime with Sammy.

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01-20-2013, 12:43 AM
  #28
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You can flip this around however you want, but when your #1 D is Kronwall, who is a legit top two, but your #2 is Jonny Ericsson?

And your next two are a rookie you wouldn't bring up properly last year, and a guy you got back in a trade after dumping for lesser options in the first place?

The next two are guys you picked up off the UFA scrap heap during the off-season.


Meanwhile, your best player is 34 going on 35.


Is the result of riding the veteran core to their death beds over the past 4-5 years?

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01-20-2013, 12:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
What if the new talent just isn't good enough? We replaced Lidstrom and Stuart with Colaiacovo and Smith...

Come on. Leave the rookie out of it. He's the one bright spot the team has. The other one is GR right now, for whatever reason.

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01-20-2013, 12:47 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I don't think you're using that word right
If they aren't talented then why are they getting paid more in a year than most people do in 10 years? Why can't guys from my beer league play for the NHL and make a million per year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
What if the new talent just isn't good enough? We replaced Lidstrom and Stuart with Colaiacovo and Smith...
You're looking at it wrong. 1. Ericsson and Kronwall have improved. 2. Colaiacovo and Smith replaced an old Lidstrom and Stuart who either declined to rapidly or his head was in Cali before the season even started last year, because he was god awful last season. Hate to break it to you, but you will be sorely disappointed if you think you can replace a Lidstrom in his prime. He's generational talent and nobody will compete with his record in 50 to 100 years.

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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
And Hudler in his prime with Sammy.
Lets be real, Brunner AND Sammy replaced Hudler.

My point stands, you can't inject so much talent and think they can play at the same level as the St.Louis Blues who virtually have the same exact team that played last year. Not only did Wings inject a bunch of new talent, but some of the guys are adjusted to the bigger rinks and had no time (training camp and enough practice time) to adjust and gel.


Last edited by HTT3*: 01-20-2013 at 12:53 AM.
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01-20-2013, 12:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
If they aren't talented then why are they getting paid more in a year than most people do in 10 years?
Talented compared to 9-5 joe blow? Yes
Talented compared to the rest of the NHL players? Not so much

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01-20-2013, 12:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Come on. Leave the rookie out of it. He's the one bright spot the team has. The other one is GR right now, for whatever reason.
Remains to be seen if Smith will be a bright spot.
But I think we need to give him every opportunity. In fact, he should have left college a year earlier and started last year in the NHL with guys like Lidstrom and Stuart to tutor him.

Instead, he's learning from Kyle Quincey.
It's astounding to me that a guy can play as poorly as KQ did tonight and lead the team in icetime.


And yes, this year's roster is a direct result of 3 years of Ken Holland kicking the roster transition the can down the road.

And, if you think it looks bad now... wait until next year.

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01-20-2013, 12:52 AM
  #33
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[QUOTE=HTT3;57919267]


Quote:
You're looking at it wrong. 1. Ericsson and Kronwall have improved.
Since when? Since last year?


Quote:
2. Colaiacovo and Smith replaced an old Lidstrom and Stuart who either declined to rapidly or his head was in Cali before the season even started last year, because he was god awful last season. Hate to break it to you, but you will be sorely disappointed if you think you can replace a Lidstrom in his prime. He's generational talent and nobody will compete with his record in 50 to 100 years.

Even if your ******** about Lidstrom and Stuart were accurate, and its not those guys were still much better than CC and KQ

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01-20-2013, 12:56 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Talented compared to 9-5 joe blow? Yes
Talented compared to the rest of the NHL players? Not so much
Whoa

If you truly believe this then I don't know what to say to you.

[QUOTE=Captain Bob;57919531]
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post

Since when? Since last year?

Even if your ******** about Lidstrom and Stuart were accurate, and its not those guys were still much better than CC and KQ
Ericsson was great last year and got some nice ice time. What are you talking about? When he got injured, Wings suffered from his absents. Didn't Kronwall score a bunch of goals while playing solid?

Give CC and KQ time to gel with their d-partners, ****!

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01-20-2013, 12:57 AM
  #35
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It was only one game. Remember, we beat the Kings 8-2 last year and they looked absolutely horrible--and yet they were hoisting the Cup 6 months later.

Sure, maybe changes are needed, but you don't go crazy after a single game (Tootoo on the first line?!)... especially the first game of the season after a week-long training camp. Give it a few games, see where they are.

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01-20-2013, 01:02 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Come on. Leave the rookie out of it. He's the one bright spot the team has. The other one is GR right now, for whatever reason.
Oh don't worry I wasn't ragging on Smith, I love the kid. It was just an example. This team's "band-aids" are now some of our core players since we lost our original core guys.

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01-20-2013, 01:03 AM
  #37
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[QUOTE=HTT3;57919763]Whoa

If you truly believe this then I don't know what to say to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post

Ericsson was great last year and got some nice ice time. What are you talking about? When he got injured, Wings suffered from his absents. Didn't Kronwall score a bunch of goals while playing solid?

Give CC and KQ time to gel with their d-partners, ****!
Ericsson has never been GREAT at anytime in his career.
He's an average defenseman at best who will always be at a disadvantage because he learned the position so late.

Any idea what the Red Wings goal differential has been since KQ joined the team?

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01-20-2013, 01:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Hckytwn View Post
It was only one game. Remember, we beat the Kings 8-2 last year and they looked absolutely horrible--and yet they were hoisting the Cup 6 months later.

Sure, maybe changes are needed, but you don't go crazy after a single game (Tootoo on the first line?!)... especially the first game of the season after a week-long training camp. Give it a few games, see where they are.
Who do you play on the first line with Datsyuk if Zetterberg is on line 2?

Tootoo is a solid player with good hockey sense.

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01-20-2013, 01:05 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Remains to be seen if Smith will be a bright spot.
But I think we need to give him every opportunity. In fact, he should have left college a year earlier and started last year in the NHL with guys like Lidstrom and Stuart to tutor him.

Instead, he's learning from Kyle Quincey.
It's astounding to me that a guy can play as poorly as KQ did tonight and lead the team in icetime.


And yes, this year's roster is a direct result of 3 years of Ken Holland kicking the roster transition the can down the road.

And, if you think it looks bad now... wait until next year.
Perhaps Babs was trying to teach him what not to do.

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01-20-2013, 01:11 AM
  #40
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One game in, and it's clearly time to focus on next season. The Colts pulled off the tank job to get the #1 pick in last year's NFL draft and got Andrew Luck, so "Suck for Luck" worked for them. Seems like our draft prospect watchers like Seth Jones and Lindholm, so let's start a similar campaign and slogan.

Tough to pull off a "Suck for Luck" type slogan with Jones or Lindholm in English, so we may need an assist from our resident Euro posters. Could be Swedish, Finnish, German, whatever. So, I'm looking for input... Henkka, joe89, mindfly, Captain Bob... any ideas?

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01-20-2013, 01:12 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Whoa

If you truly believe this then I don't know what to say to you.
If you can tell me with a straight face that you think Sammy is more talented than Semin, or that Cola is more talented than Garrison/Salo/Carle then I don't know what to say to you.
Sure every player is more talented than a rec leaguer but when you compare the new guys (Sammy, Cola) to other players ( especially other FAs available) it's clear to see that they are mediocre at best.

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01-20-2013, 01:12 AM
  #42
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[QUOTE=Captain Bob;57920085]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Whoa

If you truly believe this then I don't know what to say to you.



Ericsson has never been GREAT at anytime in his career.
He's an average defenseman at best who will always be at a disadvantage because he learned the position so late.

Any idea what the Red Wings goal differential has been since KQ joined the team?
The thing is KQ wasn't bad with use during his first stint, he was clearly better than Lebda and HFboards had a 500 INTERNAL SERVER ERROR when Holland waived him. Fans were pissed.

Then he goes to LA and was great. Then moved to Avs and was solid, but inconsistent. The problem is KQ is still adjusting to his teammates and style. I expect nothing less from CC. Even if Suter came here he'd look shaky for awhile too. Players need to gel.

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01-20-2013, 01:15 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
If you can tell me with a straight face that you think Sammy is more talented than Semin, or that Cola is more talented than Garrison/Salo/Carle then I don't know what to say to you.
Sure every player is more talented than a rec leaguer but when you compare the new guys (Sammy, Cola) to other players ( especially other FAs available) it's clear to see that they are mediocre at best.
Lol @ Semin.

Semin was so talented Washington had to shut down Main Street and have the US Army on hand to keep the fans under control as they made room for all the General Managers that all lined up for miles and miles to offer him amazing contracts.

Semin was the most talented and pursued forward since Gretzky

Lol @ Semin. Nobody ****ing wanted him....

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01-20-2013, 01:16 AM
  #44
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[QUOTE=HTT3;57920517]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post

The thing is KQ wasn't bad with use during his first stint, he was clearly better than Lebda and HFboards had a 500 INTERNAL SERVER ERROR when Holland waived him. Fans were pissed.

Then he goes to LA and was great. Then moved to Avs and was solid, but inconsistent. The problem is KQ is still adjusting to his teammates and style. I expect nothing less from CC. Even if Suter came here he'd look shaky for awhile too. Players need to gel.
You say his terrible play is only because of his teammates chemistry? Did we watch the same game?

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01-20-2013, 01:23 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Lol @ Semin.

Semin was so talented Washington had to shut down Main Street and have the US Army on hand to keep the fans under control as they made room for all the General Managers that all lined up for miles and miles to offer him amazing contracts.

Semin was the most talented and pursued forward since Gretzky

Lol @ Semin. Nobody ****ing wanted him....
Well I guess I have my answer.

lol @ thinking a 35 y/o Sammy is talented because (to use your logic) he is better than guys in beer leagues.

Also what does him not being wanted have to do with his talent?? IIRC teams didn't want him for his locker room behavior and work ethic, that has nothing to do with his talent. If he was a hard working team player there would have been a 25+ team bidding war

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01-20-2013, 01:24 AM
  #46
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[QUOTE=13 HockeyTown 40;57920723]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post

You say his terrible play is only because of his teammates chemistry? Did we watch the same game?
The same game where Howard couldn't stop a beach ball, Datsyuk couldn't shoot and when he tried, he was 36 feet too high and wide, Zetterberg couldn't skate or keep the puck on stick to save the world, Smith was lost and confused and our best player was Tootoo because he atleast showed a little emotion and heart.

Strip Z of the C, because the whole team was bad and a complete mess. If anything, Holland was a genius for NOT playing Nyquist and Tatar because their lightweight frames would have got DESTROYED!

That game?

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01-20-2013, 01:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Well I guess I have my answer.

lol @ thinking a 35 y/o Sammy is talented because (to use your logic) he is better than guys in beer leagues.
Are you talking about Alexander Semin, the guy from Washington that nobody wanted????

Really, Semin??? Nobody ****ing wanted him - why can't you get that?

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01-20-2013, 01:36 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Are you talking about Alexander Semin, the guy from Washington that nobody wanted????

Really, Semin??? Nobody ****ing wanted him - why can't you get that?
Ya I'm talking about the 40 goal scorer, who averaged 31 goals over the last six seasons, that Alex Semin. Compared to Sammy who is 8 years older and averaged just 17 goals per season over the last 6 years.
What does no one wanting him (which was foolish IMO) have to do with his level of talent?? No one wanted him because he was supposedly a "locker room cancer", if he didn't get a bad rep for not being a team player there would have been a huge bidding war. His skill level was never in doubt.

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01-20-2013, 01:41 AM
  #49
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I know it was a disastrous night, but how was Brunner's play on the first line? Did he get demoted at all? I'm just wondering what it was like, since he basically did not get ANY stats tonight... not even a hit.

I'm really interested in his potential as a player straight from the KHL, but it's difficult to get a read on him.

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01-20-2013, 01:41 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post

The same game where Howard couldn't stop a beach ball, Datsyuk couldn't shoot and when he tried, he was 36 feet too high and wide, Zetterberg couldn't skate or keep the puck on stick to save the world, Smith was lost and confused and our best player was Tootoo because he atleast showed a little emotion and heart.

Strip Z of the C, because the whole team was bad and a complete mess. If anything, Holland was a genius for NOT playing Nyquist and Tatar because their lightweight frames would have got DESTROYED!

That game?
I dont get it? Quincey got completely burned twice by a rookie.

And I'm not sure which game you were watching because Howard made a lot of great saves, granted he struggled on the breakaways, two of which were completely Quincey's fault. Zetterberg's skating was the best it's been in in a year or so.

Or maybe Gus and Tats would be able to skate past them or make a smart play. It's not all about size ya' know.

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