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Old
01-20-2013, 02:38 AM
  #76
TatarTangle
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Yup, and so did Howard. KQ reminded me of last year's Stuart. He better pull his head out of his ass.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk both looked slow. Datsyuk was losing 1-on-1 battles and couldn't even shoot the puck with any bit of accuracy.

The entire team was bad, you can point your finger at one player if you want, but at the end of the day, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are paid almost $14 million combined and didn't even score a point combined. Losing 21-0 doesn't mean anything if the offense refuses to show up.

The entire team was bad. They need to gel.
You say this as if 90% of the roster hasn't played together for at least a year at some point in their career. Why didn't Zetterberg and Brunner tear it up? They have been "gelling" for a while now. Throw in Datsyuk.

Howard could stop a beach ball, he didn't look all that bad, he doesn't have any help. Monster lookec good too.

At one point St. Loius almost had more goals than Detroit had shots. That isnt a matter of "gelling" it's a matter of a good team playing a washed up team.

So what happens when St. Louis "gels" together? They win 10-0?

What goes up must come down. Ken Holland is making the come down a lot more steep.

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Old
01-20-2013, 02:39 AM
  #77
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My thoughts:

-I have high expectations for Damien Brunner. He was nervous for his first NHL game and you could tell early. Whoever said he was trying to get to flashy is [mod: wrong] because all he did was try to move the puck when he touched it and not make a mistake. His first game haooened to be against the most physical team in the league and he got his bell rung early by Backes, which made him even more timid. He has The skill set to play a top line role, there is no question. He had an awful game, characteristic of all of the Wings, and he's going to he judged for it. I've been on board with Brunner since day one. He played awful tonight. Give him 5-7 games in the top six to adjust, his skill set is wasted elsewhere. If he doesn't hack it, he doesn't hack it and we go back to the drawing board.
-Hanging Smith out to dry with Quincey as a partner must be some sick joke.
-Franzen needs to get in game shape, fast.
-Helm is sorely missed.
-Ericsson is, bar none, our best defenseman.
-CC, White, and Kronner are serviceable, Smith will he great.
-Datsyuk had too much KHL rub off on him
-Hank wished he was still on EV Zug more than Damien did.
-I'll take Sammy top six minutes over Mule any day. Why? Because Sammy actually tries to use his size
-Had Tarasenko been there one step earlier I believe TooToo would've killed him.
-How is Jagr the NHL's leading scorer?


Last edited by Fugu: 01-20-2013 at 02:43 AM. Reason: that's considered flaming here
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Old
01-20-2013, 02:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Kronwall looked slick by the time he got to Detroit Fischer, however, was 19 and very raw.
Pretty sure Fisch was older. He did some back and forth between GR and Detroit.

Kronwall? They guy everyone on the board wanted to drive to the airport? Iirc, HD and I were his biggest defenders. His spate of injuries in those earlier years didn't help him either.

He was good at one thing then, and that was the offensive side. He was pretty week in his own end.

You're getting older, Bobby, forgetting stuff.



Quote:
I;m not sure whether Hossa would have helped us win.
But the dude was hungry. And I see a team that lacks hunger -- that lacks spirit -- that lacks toughness --- that lacks courage.

On top of that, we're smallish and not very fast. And...we lack shooting wingers.
I actually wasn't saying Hossa would have helped (although I like his size and two-way play... he was a perfect fit).

What I meant is that other UFAs may have noticed that the Wings treat the homegrowns differently. Maybe?

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01-20-2013, 02:44 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingfan View Post
My thoughts:

-I have high expectations for Damien Brunner. He was nervous for his first NHL game and you could tell early. Whoever said he was trying to get to flashy is [mod: wrong] because all he did was try to move the puck when he touched it and not make a mistake. His first game haooened to be against the most physical team in the league and he got his bell rung early by Backes, which made him even more timid. He has The skill set to play a top line role, there is no question. He had an awful game, characteristic of all of the Wings, and he's going to he judged for it. I've been on board with Brunner since day one. He played awful tonight. Give him 5-7 games in the top six to adjust, his skill set is wasted elsewhere. If he doesn't hack it, he doesn't hack it and we go back to the drawing board.
-Hanging Smith out to dry with Quincey as a partner must be some sick joke.
-Franzen needs to get in game shape, fast.
-Helm is sorely missed.
-Ericsson is, bar none, our best defenseman.
-CC, White, and Kronner are serviceable, Smith will he great.
-Datsyuk had too much KHL rub off on him
-Hank wished he was still on EV Zug more than Damien did.
-I'll take Sammy top six minutes over Mule any day. Why? Because Sammy actually tries to use his size
-Had Tarasenko been there one step earlier I believe TooToo would've killed him.
-How is Jagr the NHL's leading scorer?

How exactly did you arrive at this conclusion?

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Old
01-20-2013, 02:50 AM
  #80
WingedWheel1987
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A reasonable person would say that this is the worst possible performance out of this Red Wings team. Unfortunately, this team played like complete garbage on the defensive end and the end result didn't really surprise me. Kyle Quincey is absolutely awful and played like he was mentally disabled. The offense will be better against awful teams, but the defense will continue to be worthless in almost every situation. The sad reality is that the defense does not have the talent upfront to stop the majority of the 1st lines in the NHL. Kronwalll played like Kronwall usually does. The Wings have a ton of forwards on the team, but the majority of them are terrible. There is no real depth on this team.

The Wings will need to score their problems away, and i am not totally sure they are capable of doing that.

THREE breakaway opportunities were given up by the Wings defense. Kyle Quincey played like a 45th round pick. He was abysmal and looked like a rookie. The team Ken Holland has constructed is severely flawed based on what i saw tonight.

The Blues looked like an elite cup contending team, but i am not sure if the reason they looked that good was whether they are elite or whether the Wings are complete garbage and made them look elite.


The events that transpired tonight were exactly what i expected would happen. A team with an awful defense that would need to have an elite offense to have any hope of being competitive.

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01-20-2013, 02:53 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
A reasonable person would say that this is the worst possible performance out of this Red Wings team. Unfortunately, this team played like complete garbage on the defensive end and the end result didn't really surprise me. Kyle Quincey is absolutely awful and played like he was mentally disabled. The offense will be better against awful teams, but the defense will continue to be worthless in almost every situation. The sad reality is that the defense does not have the talent upfront to stop the majority of the 1st lines in the NHL. Kronwalll played like Kronwall usually does. The Wings have a ton of forwards on the team, but the majority of them are terrible. There is no real depth on this team.

The Wings will need to score their problems away, and i am not totally sure they are capable of doing that.

THREE breakaway opportunities were given up by the Wings defense. Kyle Quincey played like a 45th round pick. He was abysmal and looked like a rookie. The team Ken Holland has constructed is severely flawed based on what i saw tonight.

The Blues looked like an elite cup contending team, but i am not sure if the reason they looked that good was whether they are elite or whether the Wings are complete garbage and made them look elite.


The events that transpired tonight were exactly what i expected would happen. A team with an awful defense that would need to have an elite offense to have any hope of being competitive.

Who's going to score on this team?

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01-20-2013, 02:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Who's going to score on this team?
The top-6 guys, once Babcock realizes that Flip shouldn't be a center and that Hank and Dats on the same line is a waste. This is 2013, not 2003.

But even then, it may not be enough. With Lidstrom gone, there is a huge hill to climb. This team has generated a large portion of their offense from the back end, and that is no longer the case. We don't have the personnel. And it is too much of a change to shift that gap completely onto the forwards, imo. We're an offensive defenseman short right now. Kronwall and a rookie-Smith is just not enough. White is a secondary offensive d-man and Quincey is garbage. And then there is no one else.

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01-20-2013, 03:00 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Who's going to score on this team?
Not sure. If you assume the Blues are just an elite cup contending team, you have to figure that the offense will be much better against the majority of it's opponents.

Unfortunately you need to throw away any hope of this team competing for a cup if you follow that narrative.

This was a very disappointing start to the season. You should never expect this kind of performance from a team during a 48 game season. They were soundly beat, and they never really looked like they were on the same level as the Blues.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg along with Brunner played in Europe, and they looked like they forgot how to play hockey.

I am literally depressed after watching this game. I know i talked about how bad the Wings were going to be, but you have no idea how much i wanted to be proven wrong.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:27 AM
  #84
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was suprised how physical franzen was. too bad he almost never play like that.

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01-20-2013, 07:31 AM
  #85
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Franzen-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
Samuelsson-Helm-Tatar
Tootoo-Abdlekader-Miller

Kronwall-White
Smith-Ericsson
Quincy-Colaiacovo

Howard

Is this weird or does this sort of make sense? I'm assuming Bertuzzi is out for a month+, so this would be the lineup when Helm returns. Granted, this will probably NEVER HAPPEN, but doesn't this look better than what we rolled out last night?

****** lines last night didn't help anything.


Last edited by BF3: 01-20-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
01-20-2013, 08:15 AM
  #86
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need help

maybe we need these three guys
GUSTAV NYQUIST 39 gp--14g--26a--40pts
TOMAS TATAR 39gp--15g--18a--33pts
LANDON FERRARO 39gp--16g--16g--32 pts

these guys replace anytime mursak,miller,emmerton,abdelkader,cleary come on its time

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Old
01-20-2013, 08:16 AM
  #87
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We need a guy in the top 6 who is very phydical and hits that has size like Sheahan. I hope he turns into a 2nd liner, we need it

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Old
01-20-2013, 08:29 AM
  #88
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I couldn't focus on individual performances last night. All the falling down and getting bullied got in the way. This team is honestly softer than a wet flower. They could've won 6-0 themselves and it would still be true. St. Louis took our lunch money yesterday. It's sad to watch.

Colaiacovo, White, and Quincey are essentially the same type of player. Not physical at all and rely on average defense/positioning. These 3 combined aren't 40 year old Lidstrom Cola wasn't bad though. White was invisible (maybe a good thing), and Quincey... well yeah, we know how that went.

Top line tried to do too much. Shoot the damn puck.

I have a bad feeling that this is how most of our division road games are going to be this year. I hope I'm wrong.

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Old
01-20-2013, 08:41 AM
  #89
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IMO when everyone is healthy.



Flippula - Datsyuk - Nyqvist
Franzen - Zetterberg - Tatar
Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi
Eaves - Abby - Tootoo


Kronwall - White
Smith - Coca Cola
Ericsson - Kindl


Brunner to AHL. Emmerton, Mursak, Samuelsson and Miller traded.

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Old
01-20-2013, 09:29 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
IMO when everyone is healthy.



Flippula - Datsyuk - Nyqvist
Franzen - Zetterberg - Tatar
Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi
Eaves - Abby - Tootoo


Kronwall - White
Smith - Coca Cola
Ericsson - Kindl


Brunner to AHL. Emmerton, Mursak, Samuelsson and Miller traded.
Give that man some games first. He's a natural goal scorer. Of course he's got to get used to the NA style but wanting to send him to the AHL after one sh*tty game (in which he was not the worst player by far) is rediculous

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01-20-2013, 09:34 AM
  #91
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The problem is that Brunner is not a first line player and if you put him on the 3rd and 4th line he isn't much of a checker and nobody can set him up to score. This guy might be back in the Swiss league in the fall.

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01-20-2013, 09:39 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
The problem is that Brunner is not a first line player and if you put him on the 3rd and 4th line he isn't much of a checker and nobody can set him up to score. This guy might be back in the Swiss league in the fall.
For sure, Damien Brunner is the biggest problem there.

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01-20-2013, 09:42 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
The problem is that Brunner is not a first line player and if you put him on the 3rd and 4th line he isn't much of a checker and nobody can set him up to score. This guy might be back in the Swiss league in the fall.
You are saying this after one game, his first on NA ice. You just can't make a judgement like that after 1 game. If it doesn't get better after 10 games then there's a problem. But you're right he's not a bottom-6 player, he has to play in the first two lines to be effective.

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01-20-2013, 09:42 AM
  #94
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listen i have been calling this for 2 years now and I havent been wrong.

you dont trade the 19th overall pick for a bottom pairing dman like quincey when you know for a fact that Lidstrom would/will retire soon and your dman prospect depth is average and you havent drafted and/or produced a real top 3 dman since kronwall. we needed that pick 100 times more then we needed a first round playoff loss

you dont ever actually expect to build the future core of your team through free agency, it rarely ever happens, its like hopeing to pay your mortgage by winning the lottery. if thats your goal/plan in life you're screwed

you have to take chances from time to time and be creative as an organization. dosent matter if your in sports or buisness, you cant always rely on your same old model approach regardless of the success it brought you in the past.

you cant rest on your past laurels. if thats all you have to throw out then its time to move on to something else in life.

detroit is going to be in tough thsi year to make the playoffs with so mnay games within the division, a division with 2 if not 3 better teams.

kick cleary to the curb, sorry but buy him out or send him to the minors.

sign a stay-at-home dman and look to trade for another dman at some point in the near future

and play the kids, let them learn and experience failure. better to do it with datsyuk and zetterberg to cry on and learn from then to wait till they're gone as well

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01-20-2013, 09:50 AM
  #95
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How exactly did you arrive at this conclusion?
Kronwall's defensive abilities have always been overrated since he makes a HUGE hit every couple games.

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01-20-2013, 10:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Wings lost one game... MOD

You want to criticize one player, but refuse to acknowledge the entire team played bad starting with the Captain on down to the rookie Smith. Everyone was bad. Howard was horrific and definitely not top 5, let alone top 15 material in the NHL. Gus was better.

Bert didn't even play, but if he did over Mursak, maybe Detroit wouldn't have gotten pushed around as much. Sammy is atleast bigger and can shoot. You want to replace him with a tiny Nyquist? Nyquist and Tatar would have gotten KILLED out there.

As far as Quincey, he is what he is. He is bad some nights and brilliant other nights. He needs to get comfortable and find his groove. That is his problem right now.... the entire team needs to find their groove, and fast!
So I guess saying "The D is bad" is me trying to criticize only one player? It's called giving an example to prove a point. I don't have to go through every single player to do that.

You know who did play over Gus/Tatar? Cleary. Slow as hell Cleary. Cleary on the freaking PP. Holy hell. Come on. You don't think we could use a skilled player like Gus or Tatar on the PP?

Or let's talk about the PP. For the past 3 years it's been the same boring predictable crap. Pass the puck to the point, one time it, hope for screens/tips. Wow. That's surely going to keep working without Lidstrom/Homer. It wasn't even really working last year. Let's CHANGE IT UP. We have a Datsyuk and a Zetterberg. We can make a half-hearted attempted to be a tiny bit creative on the PP, but we haven't. It used to be very good. Go back to 2007-2009. Puck movement like crazy, nice crisp passes, good setups. Not the same crap that every team knows to expect from the Wings now.

Q has **never** been brilliant. Ever. I watched every single game he was in last year with the Wings, and the one scrimmage this year and one game this year. He was at best, passable. He was never brilliant. I've been saying how little faith I have in Q for months now. I've always placed Kindl ahead of him in terms of how much I trust them not to suck. Q makes me nervous every single damn time he goes near the puck. Last night just showed how right I was, as has basically every other game.

Do you know why this crap don't work no more?

Because we waited too long. Do you know why I want Gus/Tatar up even though they probably won't make a big difference? Well, let's point to our two best players, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Whenever they are interviewed about this, they say the same thing. "Being able to play, learn, develop under guys like Fedorov, Hull, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Larionov. I just improved so much because of that." They played with the best in the business and they learned a lot from it. They played with vets who had a lot to teach them. That's exactly what we should be doing with Gus/Tatar while we still have Datsyuk around. They need to play with elite NHL talent to play at an elite NHL level. Same with Smith. How much could Smith have learned from a whole year with Lidstrom?

Well, we'll never find out. And maybe we'll never find out with Gus/Tatar either. Point is, our great players had that opportunity and they turned out fantastically for it. Gus/Tatar/Smith, have not.

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Old
01-20-2013, 10:22 AM
  #97
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well if we are as bad as some people think we are, good thing is this season has only 47 games left (don't have to suffer much) and get top 5 pick.

worst will be if we miss the playoff as 9th or 10th in WC

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01-20-2013, 11:01 AM
  #98
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well if we are as bad as some people think we are, good thing is this season has only 47 games left (don't have to suffer much) and get top 5 pick.

worst will be if we miss the playoff as 9th or 10th in WC
Yep, I'd much rather suck in this short season & get a top 3 pick then just barely miss the playoffs, maybe instead of moving to the east Gary can give us the 1st overall pick instead? But if we do suck all season atleast we picked a good year to suck.

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01-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #99
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In a sick sense, I'm glad this happened. The guys had no preseason and came in thinking "we're the Red Wings!" and got destroyed.

Now they're thinking the way they should be, that they've got to work hard to grind out wins. It looked like Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Brunner thought they were still in Europe. They just got reminded that you have to work for your puck possession in the NHL and sometimes take hits to make plays.

The D is what it is. It's going to be pretty bad to mediocre all season long. The real story is the absolute lack of jump and tenacity from the forward group. That stuff doesn't come from being big or strong, but by caring a lot. The Wings didn't seem to care a lot in this game until it was too late.

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01-20-2013, 11:07 AM
  #100
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...can we haz subban nao??

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