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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

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Old
03-10-2013, 09:06 PM
  #576
Bender
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Originally Posted by benzino View Post
Ok it's not even funny anymore Sacco put O'Reilly and Landeskog together again. O'Reilly is finding his feet and he might help Landeskog do the same. Keeping those two apart is like having the Sedins on different lines it's just idiocy.
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
While I agree that Landy and ROR would be productive, I really think keeping Staz productive is more important if this team runs the 3Cs on separate lines. I think ROR can be productive with a wider variety of players. Stastny needs a skilled guy who can control the edges, muck up the corners, and pull some Dmen away from the net allowing Staz to get time and space to make the play. Landy is an excellent complement to him, similar to the impact McGinn had on Staz last year.
Not sure who else Staz could play with that would not cause his production to drop.
I wouldn't mind seeing it under 1 condition: put McGinn back with Stastny & Jones. You'll all remember that Stastny was already playing with Jones but it was the arrival of McGinn that really ignited that line down the stretch.

The way Duchene & Parenteau have played together with excellent chemistry all season long, I don't think it would take much away from their line.

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03-10-2013, 10:06 PM
  #577
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Just keep the lines as they are. Why mess with em with Duchene going so strong, and O'Reilly working very well with Mitchell. McGinn looks great with Dutchy, and Landy's finally starting to get his legs under him.

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03-10-2013, 10:16 PM
  #578
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Why put Landeskog with O'Reilly when Mitchell has clearly worked well so far

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03-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Just keep the lines as they are. Why mess with em with Duchene going so strong, and O'Reilly working very well with Mitchell. McGinn looks great with Dutchy, and Landy's finally starting to get his legs under him.
The only reasoning I can see is that Landeskog doesn't seem to necessarily be working with Stastny. They're not playing bad, but Palushaj has played decently with Stastny, the short time he was there.

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03-10-2013, 10:32 PM
  #580
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It's mostly Duchene and Parenteau tearing it up, I don't really see that McGinn has a big impact on that line. Would either throw Landeskog back in there or put him with ROR again and put Palushaj with Stastny.

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03-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
The only reasoning I can see is that Landeskog doesn't seem to necessarily be working with Stastny. They're not playing bad, but Palushaj has played decently with Stastny, the short time he was there.
i think they need to switch PJ/Duke and Jones first. Jones would make a pretty big line with Mitchell and ROR as well as being a very solid defensive unit. Pjs will be the gnat that goes anywhere with speed and vision as well as being a surprisingly good at cross ice passes and getting the puck to the front of the net rebounds and deflections for Lando). JMO

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03-10-2013, 10:53 PM
  #582
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Quinn taking the BU job would be great. Avs won't have anyone to promote if/when Sacco gets fired and might have to look outside the organization.
It would be terrible imo. Quinn is a good coach. I would prefer an experienced NHL coach but the next Avs coach will probably be a guy who has coached the Avs or the Monsters before. And in that case Quinn would be the best answer.
Edit: Alternatives would be Army or Chynoweth. I think they would be even worse than Sacco.

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03-10-2013, 11:31 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
The only reasoning I can see is that Landeskog doesn't seem to necessarily be working with Stastny. They're not playing bad, but Palushaj has played decently with Stastny, the short time he was there.
It's better for the team to not mess with it. If Duchene is the team's best player right now, you don't screw with his line. Especially when McGinn has been very good with Duchene also.

I don't think Landy's been that bad with Staz. Stastny's game has gotten a lot better, and I think a lot of that is due to Landy's hard work and winning battles. Gabe's also just getting his legs under him now, and had some very strong shifts early in this game. They may start to work out some chemistry here soon, and hopefully Jones can get back on the wagon at some damn point. What a frustrating player he can be.

There's plenty of time to put Landy back with O'Reilly, but I say leave McGinn with Dutchy unless they just stop having good games. I'd put Mitchell on the right side though, with Landy on the left. Mitchell's great coming in on his off wing and wiring shots.

He's changed his style a bit though and is actually making a great fit with O'Reilly. It's less purely on the rush scoring chances, and more trying to force turnovers, and then getting open for quick shots and driving the net. That's O'Reilly's style, and Mitchell's adapted pretty well to that surprisingly. He never looked that good on the wing before, and I thought he might have been a bit of a one trick pony, but he's showing some different looks to his game which is nice.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 03-10-2013 at 11:36 PM.
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Old
03-11-2013, 12:11 AM
  #584
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Can someone tell me why Sacco is a bad coach? It's a miracle that the team was .500 when literally everyone was injured to start the season. They will take the next step and make the playoffs with this healthy lineup like they did a couple of years ago.

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03-11-2013, 09:09 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Can someone tell me why Sacco is a bad coach? It's a miracle that the team was .500 when literally everyone was injured to start the season. They will take the next step and make the playoffs with this healthy lineup like they did a couple of years ago.
Makes stupid decisions daily. [Players going from healthy scratch to playing 22mins per night <- has happened at least 3 times this season] is but ONE example.

We DID have injuries and key players out of the lineup, I'll give you that but it's more about questionable calls that happen regularly.

- Tyson Barrie being out of the lineup after what he showed over 10 games is moronic. Matt Hunwick turns the puck over a minimum of 3 times per game and stays in the lineup.

- Matt Duchene on the point on the Power Play DID NOT WORK last year and it didn't work for 10 games this year either but it was tried and tried and tried without success.

Stuff like that.

There are teams with less talent that are doing much better than .500 with good coaching, guys that actually have systems and can ADAPT during games. All we've seen from Sacco over the years is: dump the puck in, go get it and work hard. That's not enough to be competitive in this league.

This is not unlike Granato having an all-star team in 2003 and getting SCHOOLED by Jacques Lemaire and a hard working but much less talented Wild team in the playoffs. Granato didn't know what to do and neither does Sacco on most nights. It's just more of the same dump & chase, be first on the puck and hope we play harder than our opponent on any given night.

Honestly, you could put a fishbowl with a goldfish in it behind the bench as head coach of this team and I'm not sure the results would be very different than what we've seen this year.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:15 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Can someone tell me why Sacco is a bad coach? It's a miracle that the team was .500 when literally everyone was injured to start the season. They will take the next step and make the playoffs with this healthy lineup like they did a couple of years ago.
He literally shoots himself in the foot every night by doing the exact opposite that would make him successful.

The Avs are winning in-spite of Sacco, not because of Sacco.

Wasn't there a quote floating around somewhere of Stastny saying 'We have no system and just go out there and play every night' with a hefty dose of paraphrasing in there.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by klozge View Post
It would be terrible imo. Quinn is a good coach. I would prefer an experienced NHL coach but the next Avs coach will probably be a guy who has coached the Avs or the Monsters before. And in that case Quinn would be the best answer.
Edit: Alternatives would be Army or Chynoweth. I think they would be even worse than Sacco.
Army sucks. He ran Providence College into the ground. They're just now beginning to recover. http://www.uscho.com/stats/history/p...key/2012-2013/

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03-11-2013, 04:11 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Makes stupid decisions daily. [Players going from healthy scratch to playing 22mins per night <- has happened at least 3 times this season] is but ONE example.

We DID have injuries and key players out of the lineup, I'll give you that but it's more about questionable calls that happen regularly.

- Tyson Barrie being out of the lineup after what he showed over 10 games is moronic. Matt Hunwick turns the puck over a minimum of 3 times per game and stays in the lineup.
Tyson Barrie is still a rookie and rookies around the league aren't getting much leeway. Look at how the Rangers are handling Chris Kreider constantly sent up and down more often than a rollercoaster. Or how the Oilers are utilizing Yakupov by not even using him in close games in the 3rd period ahead of stiffs like Smyth.

Quote:
- Matt Duchene on the point on the Power Play DID NOT WORK last year and it didn't work for 10 games this year either but it was tried and tried and tried without success.
I hear what you're saying, but who else can Sacco realistically use on the point in that situation? I'm fairly curious.

Quote:
Stuff like that.

There are teams with less talent that are doing much better than .500 with good coaching, guys that actually have systems and can ADAPT during games. All we've seen from Sacco over the years is: dump the puck in, go get it and work hard. That's not enough to be competitive in this league.
Really? That's exactly the system John Tortorella employs along with many other coaches. That's the most generic use of systematic play using the dump and chase method, all teams use it. The Avs have great high end talent in Stastny Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly and Johnson and I don't think any of those players are being underutilized. The rest of the roster looks very shady at best, in fact I think Sacco's done really well relative to the talent he has on the roster.

Quote:
This is not unlike Granato having an all-star team in 2003 and getting SCHOOLED by Jacques Lemaire and a hard working but much less talented Wild team in the playoffs. Granato didn't know what to do and neither does Sacco on most nights. It's just more of the same dump & chase, be first on the puck and hope we play harder than our opponent on any given night.
That's the system that should be employed by coaches. A system that encourages players to work harder than the other team. Again John Tortorella has the exact same ideology when on offense. We never carry it into the zone and rely on out-muscling/outworking the opposition with the dump and chase.

Quote:
Honestly, you could put a fishbowl with a goldfish in it behind the bench as head coach of this team and I'm not sure the results would be very different than what we've seen this year.
I think that's very harsh. Sacco should have no credit for the development of Duchene Landeskog, ROR amongst others who he started with?

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03-11-2013, 05:48 PM
  #589
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i would love to see Boston U take Sacco off our hands. that would solve one problem for the Avs.

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03-11-2013, 05:49 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Quinn taking the BU job would be great. Avs won't have anyone to promote if/when Sacco gets fired and might have to look outside the organization.
no, that will just give them more of an excuse to not fire him.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #591
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Remember the reactions when Quenneville left? http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=515369

Who would want him back instead of Sacco?

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03-11-2013, 09:28 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Tyson Barrie is still a rookie and rookies around the league aren't getting much leeway. Look at how the Rangers are handling Chris Kreider constantly sent up and down more often than a rollercoaster. Or how the Oilers are utilizing Yakupov by not even using him in close games in the 3rd period ahead of stiffs like Smyth.



I hear what you're saying, but who else can Sacco realistically use on the point in that situation? I'm fairly curious.



Really? That's exactly the system John Tortorella employs along with many other coaches. That's the most generic use of systematic play using the dump and chase method, all teams use it. The Avs have great high end talent in Stastny Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly and Johnson and I don't think any of those players are being underutilized. The rest of the roster looks very shady at best, in fact I think Sacco's done really well relative to the talent he has on the roster.



That's the system that should be employed by coaches. A system that encourages players to work harder than the other team. Again John Tortorella has the exact same ideology when on offense. We never carry it into the zone and rely on out-muscling/outworking the opposition with the dump and chase.



I think that's very harsh. Sacco should have no credit for the development of Duchene Landeskog, ROR amongst others who he started with?
Bored today? WHY ARE YOU HERE?

Unless you've WATCHED all 15 of Tyson Barrie's games this season, I don't think you can really make a blanket statement that covers ALL ROOKIES in the league like Kreider and what not.

You seemed to want to know why this MORON is a bad coach, I gave you a few examples amongst A GIANT BUCKETLOAD and you seem to want to pick an argument with me for some reason?

You want to compare a Stanley Cup winning coach like Tortorella with a guy who never even had a winning record in the minors before being hired as a head coach?!!?

I'm not saying coaches should never tell players to use 'dump & chase' and I'm not advocating they tell their players to NOT work as hard as the opposition but that shouldn't be the limit to what you can bring behind the bench, which IS the case with Sacco.

You seemed to ask the question so you can start an argument. I can give you a LONG LIST of stupid, idiotic decisions that this fool has made over the years but I doubt that you'd consider them since you seem to think he's doing such a great job, without really having the in-depth knowledge of following this team from game to game.

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03-13-2013, 11:56 AM
  #593
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Some stats I put together in the thread about McLellan on the main board.

The Avs since January 2011 -

61-77-13

We have been shutout 18 times in that span, meaning 12% of the games we play result in the Avs being shutout.

We have lost in regulation 67 times (44%), OT 9 times (6%) and SO 4 times (3%).

We have won in regulation 30 times (20%), OT 11 times (7%) and SO 13 times (8%).

Our worst loss came to Calgary in what we refer to as the "Valentines Day Massacre", a 9-1 drubbing which included the retiring of Forsberg prior to said game.

The one constant in all of that is our coach, Joe Sacco having a hand in every single game.

Despite having a regulation win percentage of a paltry 20% over the course of his past 151 games, we've yet to can him and actually extended him beyond this season.

So imagine playing for the next two seasons and only winning on average 4 games every 20 games played in regulation. Now imagine you had an 'A' on your jersey as opposed to a Shark.

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03-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Some stats I put together in the thread about McLellan on the main board.

The Avs since January 2011 -

61-77-13

We have been shutout 18 times in that span, meaning 12% of the games we play result in the Avs being shutout.

We have lost in regulation 67 times (44%), OT 9 times (6%) and SO 4 times (3%).

We have won in regulation 30 times (20%), OT 11 times (7%) and SO 13 times (8%).

Our worst loss came to Calgary in what we refer to as the "Valentines Day Massacre", a 9-1 drubbing which included the retiring of Forsberg prior to said game.

The one constant in all of that is our coach, Joe Sacco having a hand in every single game.

Despite having a regulation win percentage of a paltry 20% over the course of his past 151 games, we've yet to can him and actually extended him beyond this season.

So imagine playing for the next two seasons and only winning on average 4 games every 20 games played in regulation. Now imagine you had an 'A' on your jersey as opposed to a Shark.
To add to this:

After last night, Sacco is now 29-46-6 against the NW and 91-106-20 against the west. If not for a winning record against the east (don't have the exact numbers in front of me right now, but I think it's like 60% or something like that), he'd have an embarrassingly bad overall record.

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03-13-2013, 12:44 PM
  #595
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We lost 21 straight games at one point during his tenure in Denver, if that isn't a fireable offense I don't know what is.

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03-13-2013, 12:52 PM
  #596
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We lost 21 straight games at one point during his tenure in Denver, if that isn't a fireable offense I don't know what is.
They must think he is good for the "kids".


Last edited by 18007: 03-13-2013 at 01:21 PM. Reason: makes more sense now.
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03-13-2013, 01:18 PM
  #597
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We lost 21 straight games at one point during his tenure in Denver, if that isn't a fireable offense I don't know what is.
True. Maybe I'm just depressed after that terrible game last night but I don't think he'll ever be fired. Avs will pay him for the remaining season and the next one and there's no reason to believe he won't coach the team until his contract will expire.
I highly doubt his contract will be extended but I expect him to stand behind the bench for the next 105 games.

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03-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #598
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Tyson Barrie is still a rookie and rookies around the league aren't getting much leeway. Look at how the Rangers are handling Chris Kreider constantly sent up and down more often than a rollercoaster. Or how the Oilers are utilizing Yakupov by not even using him in close games in the 3rd period ahead of stiffs like Smyth.
Are we talking about the same Chris Kreider who has a whopping 2 points in 11 games? Barrie is leading our defense in scoring despite playing only 15 games. I'd say it's a just a tad different.

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03-13-2013, 01:25 PM
  #599
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The five forward powerplay should be a fireable offense.

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03-13-2013, 02:02 PM
  #600
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There is good and bad news....

Good news is they can't use injuries as an excuse anymore since the team is pretty much healthy except for Downie.

Bad news is, they still wont fire Sacco even though this team can't win 3 games in a row all season long. Columbus can win 5 in a row though.

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