HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #651
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
If an employer offered you your boss' salary for the next few months and said that your performance would dictate whether you were kept in the position or replaced with an outside hire, would you pass up the opportunity? It's not unfair at all and can't even hurt them.

If Quinn can't hack it, keep him as an assistant to let him learn some more. If we brought in another coach they'd likely be gone anyways, is that unfair to them for not giving them an opportunity to save their jobs?

As for the players, I don't see how firing the coach they won't respond to is unfair to them.
It would basically put Quinn in a preassure cooker, he would be set up to fail (again much like Cunneyworth was in Montreal). An interim tag pretty much means the FO isn't sure in you, so why would it be any different when it comes to players? And I fail to remember any instance in which an interim coach was put in a situation like this and succeeded. They're put in a position in which you can't say no, if you say no you look like a guy who isn't sure in himself and if you say yes you can potentially ruin your whole career (and for what, 20 games worth of coaching) if your team fails to improve, which is given our talent on the defense more than a likely outcome.

As for it being unfair to players that's a bit harder for me to explain in English (you should all learn Croatian), it basically sends a message to the players that you aren't sure in which direction your team should be going and that you still aren't sure if the poor performance was the coaches fault or theirs. I hope that makes some sense to you.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #652
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker View Post
While I'm no fan of Burke (as mentioned in K:s article), at least that would bring some excitement to this sorry organization.

As a fan, I can accept that there are 30 teams in the league that are pretty competitive right now. So maybe we won't win a cup for the rest of my lifetime. As the Maple Leafs have shown, that's a definite possibility.

But I would at least like to have something to be excited about. An owner that cares would be a start. A president who isn't using the team offices as a retirement home would help as well. A GM who knows hockey? Heck yeah! A coach who knows hockey? Even better!

Point being - I've disliked Burke for a long time. He had some stupid moves with the Maple Leafs (i.e. Kessel trade, Komisarek signing etc). But he had some steals too (Beauchemin trade, Kadri is looking good), and at least he'd show some passion for the team and be willing to do whatever it takes to put a good product on the ice.

So, while I don't care much for the Brian Burke idea, I do like what he would represent. A management that cares and does whatever it takes to get back on track. I can't stand another season or two of watching my favourite team being treated like the ugly stepchild by its own front office. Don't give me our AHL coach or our assistant coach as the new head coach when/if Sacco is ever fired. Don't hire another guy from accounting if Shermanator is fired. And please, don't ever put Eric Lacroix as GM or President of the team, because I would quit this team soo hard if that ever happened.
Well the chances of Brian Burke accepting a role under PL, or of PL actually hiring Burke are close to non-existant.

Even though I'm defending Sherman on most ocassions I wouldn't be against his dismissal if it means we're cleaning the house (save for our scouting staff with Pracey at the helm).

Appoint Pracey as our new GM, name Joe Sakic the executive president and bring in a coach like Cooper, Roy or Dallas Eakins.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #653
dsheehan73
Registered User
 
dsheehan73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker View Post
While I'm no fan of Burke (as mentioned in K:s article), at least that would bring some excitement to this sorry organization.

As a fan, I can accept that there are 30 teams in the league that are pretty competitive right now. So maybe we won't win a cup for the rest of my lifetime. As the Maple Leafs have shown, that's a definite possibility.

But I would at least like to have something to be excited about. An owner that cares would be a start. A president who isn't using the team offices as a retirement home would help as well. A GM who knows hockey? Heck yeah! A coach who knows hockey? Even better!

Point being - I've disliked Burke for a long time. He had some stupid moves with the Maple Leafs (i.e. Kessel trade, Komisarek signing etc). But he had some steals too (Beauchemin trade, Kadri is looking good), and at least he'd show some passion for the team and be willing to do whatever it takes to put a good product on the ice.

So, while I don't care much for the Brian Burke idea, I do like what he would represent. A management that cares and does whatever it takes to get back on track. I can't stand another season or two of watching my favourite team being treated like the ugly stepchild by its own front office. Don't give me our AHL coach or our assistant coach as the new head coach when/if Sacco is ever fired. Don't hire another guy from accounting if Shermanator is fired. And please, don't ever put Eric Lacroix as GM or President of the team, because I would quit this team soo hard if that ever happened.
This. Possible promotion of E. Lacroix, continued retention of P. Lacroix, strict avoidance of hiring GMs/coaches from outside the organization all reflect an ownership that is disinterested or incompetent or both.

As you indicated I'm just looking for some sign this organization cares, has life, and would try something different to change the product on the ice. It is incomprehensible to me how/why ownership cannot see (or worse chooses not to) these obvious options to improve and trying them at least gives the fan base hope that they care.

dsheehan73 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 11:50 AM
  #654
bohlmeister
$$ For Sale $$
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,358
vCash: 400
Is there a reason, aside from him being Pierre's son, that everyone thinks Eric is bad? He did play in the NHL and he has sort of paid his dues and worked his way up hasn't he?

I don't really know his history but he played for a lot of years in the NHL, so he has at least some hockey knowledge.

In asking this, I realize that I take shots at him as much as everyone else does.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #655
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Is there a reason, aside from him being Pierre's son, that everyone thinks Eric is bad? He did play in the NHL and he has sort of paid his dues and worked his way up hasn't he?

I don't really know his history but he played for a lot of years in the NHL, so he has at least some hockey knowledge.

In asking this, I realize that I take shots at him as much as everyone else does.
That's the thing, has he really "worked" his way up? I know he's an owner of a CHL team and all, but I believe he's only worked in the NHL under one guy--his old man.

Also, it was Eric's friendship with Tony Granato that prompted Pierre to bring him into the organization, so...

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #656
falconski
Unregistered User
 
falconski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,074
vCash: 500
Daddy O'Reilly spouting off again

Brian O'Reilly ‏@coachbri1

If players are frustrated on a team quality is not on their mind very much. They evaluate everything about the game rather the game within.

@coachbri1

Players often become the coaches adversaries when boss management is imposed because of lack of quality. This just hurts the team more.

falconski is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #657
bohlmeister
$$ For Sale $$
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,358
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
That's the thing, has he really "worked" his way up? I know he's an owner of a CHL team and all, but I believe he's only worked in the NHL under one guy--his old man.

Also, it was Eric's friendship with Tony Granato that prompted Pierre to bring him into the organization, so...
#1, I think Granato is a really good assistant coach.

There is really no validity to him being an idiot, if the only reason is he works for his dad. It is definitely reaffirms Lacroix's nepotism, which doesn't need reaffirmation. It is hard to judge someone that doesn't make decisions that directly effect the team. But like I said, he played for a long time in the NHL. I don't doubt there is some hockey knowledge and we probably shouldn't assume he is a blubbering idiot only because he is Pierre's son.

Again, I am as guilty as anyone for perpetuating this belief. Not calling anyone out.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #658
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
#1, I think Granato is a really good assistant coach.

There is really no validity to him being an idiot, if the only reason is he works for his dad. It is definitely reaffirms Lacroix's nepotism, which doesn't need reaffirmation. It is hard to judge someone that doesn't make decisions that directly effect the team. But like I said, he played for a long time in the NHL. I don't doubt there is some hockey knowledge and we probably shouldn't assume he is a blubbering idiot only because he is Pierre's son.

Again, I am as guilty as anyone for perpetuating this belief. Not calling anyone out.
I get what you're saying, in fact Eric asked Pierre to trade him away from the Avs because he wasn't comfortable being the GM's son. I'm sure he has his own ideas, I'm just too fearful that he'd run things the exact same way his father does, much like all of Bill Belichick's acolytes all run things the exact same way as Belichick, with disastrous results.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  #659
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,437
vCash: 50
I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.

S E P H is online now  
Old
03-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #660
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconski View Post
Daddy O'Reilly spouting off again

Brian O'Reilly ‏@coachbri1

If players are frustrated on a team quality is not on their mind very much. They evaluate everything about the game rather the game within.

@coachbri1

Players often become the coaches adversaries when boss management is imposed because of lack of quality. This just hurts the team more.
It honestly just blows my mind that people pay this guy their hard earned money to hear this nonsense. The fact that he thinks any of what he's saying is insightful or valuable is equally mind boggling.

Nihiliste is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 02:40 PM
  #661
klozge
Avs
 
klozge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Siegen, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.
I would laugh but it's PL and it won't surprise me at all if he really planned to go for it.

klozge is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 02:43 PM
  #662
detrude
(╯□)╯ ︵ ┻━┻
 
detrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Djibouti
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.
I believe it, and I think most around here would, too. He had the offer already in 09 but didn't take it. Then I remember hearing a comment that PL was talking to him again in 10-11, but I can't find a source on that. I wouldn't doubt Roy is the first (and only) person talked to this summer. PL wants him, and I can see him being more receptive to it this time unless Phoenix moves to Quebec.

detrude is online now  
Old
03-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #663
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
I wouldn't mind Roy as a coach, but giving him both the HC gig and the GM gig is a bit over the top. I fear he would be more than ready to sacrifice the future of the team to win now, coaches usually tend to look at every deal on a short term basis, but the GM should work both for the short and long term benefit of the club.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 03:46 PM
  #664
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I wouldn't mind Roy as a coach, but giving him both the HC gig and the GM gig is a bit over the top. I fear he would be more than ready to sacrifice the future of the team to win now, coaches usually tend to look at every deal on a short term basis, but the GM should work both for the short and long term benefit of the club.
Agreed.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 05:40 PM
  #665
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,259
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
It would basically put Quinn in a preassure cooker, he would be set up to fail (again much like Cunneyworth was in Montreal). An interim tag pretty much means the FO isn't sure in you, so why would it be any different when it comes to players? And I fail to remember any instance in which an interim coach was put in a situation like this and succeeded. They're put in a position in which you can't say no, if you say no you look like a guy who isn't sure in himself and if you say yes you can potentially ruin your whole career (and for what, 20 games worth of coaching) if your team fails to improve, which is given our talent on the defense more than a likely outcome.

As for it being unfair to players that's a bit harder for me to explain in English (you should all learn Croatian), it basically sends a message to the players that you aren't sure in which direction your team should be going and that you still aren't sure if the poor performance was the coaches fault or theirs. I hope that makes some sense to you.
Again, I disagree it is a bad situation for Quinn. Anyone that reaches the Head Coach position in the NHL has talent to begin with. No one is going to write him off as a good coach if he took over a bottom five team he didn't improve our position at all. He very well may not be here next year anyways if we bring in a new head coach.

Do you think it is worse for him to fail as an interim head coach or fail as an assistant coach? In my opinion, neither are particularly bad situations for a guy as green in the league as he is, doubt a GM will look at his resume and go "Sorry, you failed to have a winning record during your 20 games as a head coach three years ago, we can't hire you."

The future of this club is more important, we need to start evaluating our players under a new system now, before it is too late. We've been waiting too long as it is to get rid of Sacco.

As for the players... I disagree. I think firing the coach and hiring an interim simply shows them you're committed to bringing in the right coach to help them succeed. Rather than rush a decision, you're going to take your time while someone else gets a shot to win the role.

Guess we've got differing perspectives on this.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 06:33 PM
  #666
volaju
Registered User
 
volaju's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
It honestly just blows my mind that people pay this guy their hard earned money to hear this nonsense. The fact that he thinks any of what he's saying is insightful or valuable is equally mind boggling.
To be fair, Twitter isn't the best medium for someone with his writing skills + dyslexia.

A lot of what he's saying looks like gobbledygook, I'll give you that. And while he does use jargon terms, they nonetheless refer to actual theories of motivation. By "boss control management," he's referring to using punishment/fear of punishment as a primary method of motivation, aka extrinsic motivation. This is how a lot of companies operate, and studies/anecdotal evidence have begun to suggest that this isn't the best way to squeeze the most productivity out of your workers. If you're interested in the subject, look up intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, and what Father O'Reilly says will start to make a little more sense to you.

Like I said, his writing style and apparent learning disability don't do him any favors, and Twitter really isn't the best place for his rants. Maybe he gives better lectures in person, I dunno, but he is indeed referring to actual respected theories and not just making stuff up. Also, people have to remember that he's raised two sons who made it to the NHL level ... he's doing something right, people.

volaju is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #667
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,259
vCash: 239
Regardless of what he knows, he needs to quit making thinly veiled references about the Avs in his tweets. While we may not be as privvy as he is to this, he's coming off very immature about it all.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 06:59 PM
  #668
volaju
Registered User
 
volaju's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Regardless of what he knows, he needs to quit making thinly veiled references about the Avs in his tweets. While we may not be as privvy as he is to this, he's coming off very immature about it all.
Yeah, if I'm Ryan, I'm telling Dad not to reference a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g about my team. If this keeps up, management won't have any choice but to trade him.

volaju is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:09 PM
  #669
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,818
vCash: 645
The more people calling for Sacco's head the better. Don't care if it's directly (Dater, Kiszla, fans etc) or indirectly through the some tweets from Papa O'Reilly.

Avs_19 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:31 PM
  #670
Frenchy
Global Moderator
 
Frenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alma, QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,549
vCash: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.
I beleive you and it's highly possible because Roy runs the show with the Remparts and i think it's in his head that he got what it takes to do the same in the NHL . Roy was rumoured as a serious candidate for the head coach job in Montreal , but right away the journalists said that Montreal wasnt interested because Roy wanted more power , not just as a head coach . Roy wanted something like Coaching and GM or Coach and assistant GM ...but apparently Montreal said no .

Frenchy is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:43 PM
  #671
bohlmeister
$$ For Sale $$
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,358
vCash: 400
Yeah, like I have said before. I could see Roy just having say in personnel. But I can't imagine he would be doing most of the GM duties.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #672
Frenchy
Global Moderator
 
Frenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alma, QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,549
vCash: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Yeah, like I have said before. I could see Roy just having say in personnel. But I can't imagine he would be doing most of the GM duties.
I agree,

But even if he does hired a few assistants GM to help him , i believe that it's still to much work, in this in this day and age, for a guy to be Coach and GM in the NHL .

Frenchy is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 09:12 PM
  #673
Colorado Sports Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 5,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by volaju View Post
Yeah, if I'm Ryan, I'm telling Dad not to reference a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g about my team. If this keeps up, management won't have any choice but to trade him.
Not only that but what other NHL team would want to deal with the sideshow his dad is.

Colorado Sports Fan is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 09:21 PM
  #674
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
It would basically put Quinn in a preassure cooker, he would be set up to fail (again much like Cunneyworth was in Montreal). An interim tag pretty much means the FO isn't sure in you, so why would it be any different when it comes to players? And I fail to remember any instance in which an interim coach was put in a situation like this and succeeded. They're put in a position in which you can't say no, if you say no you look like a guy who isn't sure in himself and if you say yes you can potentially ruin your whole career (and for what, 20 games worth of coaching) if your team fails to improve, which is given our talent on the defense more than a likely outcome.

As for it being unfair to players that's a bit harder for me to explain in English (you should all learn Croatian), it basically sends a message to the players that you aren't sure in which direction your team should be going and that you still aren't sure if the poor performance was the coaches fault or theirs. I hope that makes some sense to you.
Cunneyworth WAS NOT put in a position to fail. He had pretty much the same lineup as Therrien and completely screwed it up. He didn't fail because he had an interim tag on him--he failed because he was an incompetent coach. If he had at least gotten the team to play better for a stretch, he would've been considered for a permanent spot.

An interim tag shouldn't mean much in any league where coaches can get fired at the drop of a hat anyway. It's merely an audition, a chance to prove himself, which isn't that different than what players have to do all the time.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 09:28 PM
  #675
Cypher
#GenieArmy
 
Cypher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,549
vCash: 140
I rather keep Sacco instead of hiring Roy as coach and GM.

Avs need to think outside the box, this whole staying in the family thing isn't working. They need a culture change, and Roy isn't it.

Cypher is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.