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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

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01-29-2013, 12:46 PM
  #126
expatriated_texan
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I'm going to laugh when PL announces his retirement....right after announcing he's hired Brian Burke to take over as head coach and general manager.

Big snake eat Pierre LaCroix.

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01-29-2013, 12:55 PM
  #127
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Would it? I honestly have no idea, however I remember reading somewhere that Army's next in the pipeline

But still, no way they're going to hire anyone from outside the organization, and therefore, good.
I'm pretty sure Quinn would replace Sacco. Someone from outside would probably be better but I liked what Quinn did with a pretty bad Monsters team last year.

I'm a Sherman fan and I like how he has built this team and system but he's been too patient with Sacco imo. I also think that the injuries are not an excuse for Sacco but a result of the "system" Avs are playing under him. Not all of them but quite a few in the last years.

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01-29-2013, 01:29 PM
  #128
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I can't imagine the Avs firing Sacco with the shorten season. If they did, they would just promote Quinn.

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01-29-2013, 01:30 PM
  #129
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Both Sacco and the GM need to go.

We're about to become the 4th biggest laughing stocks in the league after Columbus/Edmonton/NYI because of these two and at least Edmonton's shown signs of improvement.
Edmonton is showing what happens when you get the 4 best prospects each year in 3 years.. Avs should still finish above Edmonton it is only two games. Stop overreacting.

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01-29-2013, 01:39 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
I'm going to laugh when PL announces his retirement....right after announcing he's hired Brian Burke to take over as head coach and general manager.

Big snake eat Pierre LaCroix.
Can someone explain the LaCroix hate to me?

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01-29-2013, 01:46 PM
  #131
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Can someone explain the LaCroix hate to me?
Stems from the fact the guy is a compulsive trader that destroyed our future for years and kept FG in charge allowing him to lead us in mediocrity for far too long.

He is technically 'The Boss' but he's either overreaching by keeping himself in charge of too much (sometimes decisions feel far too 'familiar' in this organization, leading towards the idea he is the common denominator in them all) or too little (e.g. Not removing Sacco if he is indeed preventing Sherman from doing so).

His presence on the organization has spanned three decades now and to many (including myself) it is time to move on.

This largely coincides with the secretive nature of our organization, preventing us from truly knowing where the puppet strings lead, but all signs point towards Pierre at this time.

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01-29-2013, 01:48 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Mant View Post
Yeah, we haven't had a retarded scapegoat thread in far too long.
Is it the scapegoat that's retarded or the thread?

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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Sacco should be fired, but it has very little to do with yesterday's game. The man just isn't a good coach, I don't know why it's hard for you and other people to accept this.
THIS. I'll ask again, anyone have any PROOF as to why he's a GOOD coach? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Just give me ANYTHING...cuz everything I've seen from him as a coach as well as his abysmal record in the NHL AND AHL leads me to the conclusion that he's HORRIBLE. I don't care if you don't agree, just don't say, the coach isn't the problem without backing it up at least a little.

I can tell you that I'm absolutely FED UP with the dumb ass-dump-it-in, try and go get it only to feed it back to the point for a weak wrist shot on the goalie's crest. Also, his retarded putting a forward on the POINT on the PP, it didn't work last year with Lindstrom, Porter, Duchene and the countless OTHERS that you've tried there, why do you think that magically it will pay dividends now? It's STILL not working but feel free to take 10-15 games to figure it out.

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Mike Keenan
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I'd rather eat glass than have that moron as the coach. He's better suited for an older team anyway.
Compared to me, you really WANT Keenan as coach.

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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
My choice would be Andy Murray. He had EJ in his rookie season, when he played his best hockey. And he would improve this team for the next 3 years. He isn't a long term solution, but one to bring them back to a respectable team.
That wouldn't be a bad choice, always thought he got the most out of his teams.

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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Ron Wilson still available???? Jacques Martin?
No on Ron Wilson.

For Jacques Martin, he at least fits the bill as far as having the 'Lacroix-connections' needed to land a job like this.

My personal preference is still Patrick Roy.

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01-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Can someone explain the LaCroix hate to me?
Big fat snake eat Lacroix.

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01-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Stems from the fact the guy is a compulsive trader that destroyed our future for years and kept FG in charge allowing him to lead us in mediocrity for far too long.

He is technically 'The Boss' but he's either overreaching by keeping himself in charge of too much (sometimes decisions feel far too 'familiar' in this organization, leading towards the idea he is the common denominator in them all) or too little (e.g. Not removing Sacco if he is indeed preventing Sherman from doing so).

His presence on the organization has spanned three decades now and to many (including myself) it is time to move on.

This largely coincides with the secretive nature of our organization, preventing us from truly knowing where the puppet strings lead, but all signs point towards Pierre at this time.
Someone else pointed it out in another thread I think. Be careful what you wish for. You never know what kind of numbskull, idiot could be brought in, that is just utterly clueless. [ THINK: Mike Milbury ] If the Avs ever did a huge cleanup and hired on a guy like that, how frikkin' horrible would that be??

Despite not being able to recognize the IMPORTANCE of coaching in general, I'm satisfied with the job Lacroix and his puppets have done since the start of the rebuild in 2009.

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01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Can someone explain the LaCroix hate to me?
I'll be the first to say that he did some great things for us during the 90s and first half of the aughts. But he set us up terribly for the lockout and salary cap. The way he structured bonuses for Sakic and Blake forced us to lose Forsberg and Foote. He never did learn how to adapt to a salary cap era though...and I think that's when some of the jabs started really going his way. Then after he really screwded payroll up he stepped down (and promoted his replacement from within.)

Now throughout this whole ordeal he has developed a reputation and track-record as someone who is very secretive and relies too heavily on known quantities. His flat out refusal to hire coaching staff or GMs from outside his organization and insistence on promoting from within has hurt this organization (I'd say greatly.)

They talk about how a coach's voice goes stale in the locker-room and that's why the average tenure for a head-coach in the NHL is ~2.5 years or something. I believe that by hiring from within only and without injecting new blood at all levels of management PL's vision reached its shelf-life around 2005 (if not before.) He really needs to step away or be shown the door but Stan trusts him and doesn't really care or know enough about hockey to contemplate who should replace him.

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01-29-2013, 02:05 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Someone else pointed it out in another thread I think. Be careful what you wish for. You never know what kind of numbskull, idiot could be brought in, that is just utterly clueless. [ THINK: Mike Milbury ] If the Avs ever did a huge cleanup and hired on a guy like that, how frikkin' horrible would that be??

Despite not being able to recognize the IMPORTANCE of coaching in general, I'm satisfied with the job Lacroix and his puppets have done since the start of the rebuild in 2009.
Definitely not discounting this possibility. And I'm not generally a change for the sake of change person.

But it's time to open up this organization a little more.

Sherman in my opinion is the best decision this franchise has made in the front office or coaching area in years. Quickly followed by Pracey. Sherman is creative, responsible, hard when he needs to be (needs to budge a bit more on O'Reilly in my opinion) and has a vision. But someone (he or Lacroix) are way too loyal to Sacco.

Let's put it this way. John Anderson, a better coach than Sacco, got canned for far less in Atlanta than Sacco has done with the Avs.


Last edited by Lonewolfe2015: 01-29-2013 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Removed pointless sentence
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01-29-2013, 02:13 PM
  #137
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The question is:

Does our struggles on the pk, transition, zone entry and so on come from our coaches not being good enough with details, x's and o's or do they come from our players not being smart and skilled enough?

I think, especially with missing the players we are missing now, the answer will have more of the latter than I am comfortable with. Seeing this team struggle to connect passes and making the most stupid zone entry decisions, I think we will need some on-ice personnel upgrades as well as coaching upgrades to go anywhere.

Let's leave PP for the time being. It looked horrible but was reasonably effective last year. I think they might turn it into something that's acceptable.

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01-29-2013, 02:14 PM
  #138
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If I thought the fans had enough heart to make any noise at all at the Pepsi Centre, I'd say to start a "Fire Sacco" chant. However I've never heard more than a whisper from the crowd there since about 2002, so I doubt that will ever happen.

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01-29-2013, 02:25 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by TheStranger View Post
If I thought the fans had enough heart to make any noise at all at the Pepsi Centre, I'd say to start a "Fire Sacco" chant. However I've never heard more than a whisper from the crowd there since about 2002, so I doubt that will ever happen.
From seen the games on TV, i would say that the majority of fans that goes to the games at Pepsi Center doesnt even know the name of the Avs coach, so a "fire Sacco" chant is unlikely.

I'll be happy if they boo the crap out of this team if they ever play another game like last night's first two periods.

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01-29-2013, 02:27 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Definitely not discounting this possibility. And I'm not generally a change for the sake of change person.

But it's time to open up this organization a little more.

Sherman in my opinion is the best decision this franchise has made in the front office or coaching area in years. Quickly followed by Pracey. Sherman is creative, responsible, hard when he needs to be (needs to budge a bit more on O'Reilly in my opinion) and has a vision. But someone (he or Lacroix) are way too loyal to Sacco.

Let's put it this way. John Anderson, a better coach than Sacco, got canned for far less in Atlanta than Sacco has done with the Avs.
You realize that you're praising and condemning essentially the same guy, right?

Sherman does the day-to-day job and gets the credit but do you truly believe that when he's on the phone with GM Doug Armstrong from St-Louis, and has the details of the EJ deal, that he solely makes that decision whether or not to do it? No way in hell. He actually even admitted publicly that they do it by COMMITTEE!!!

Lacroix has his fingerprints all over this team still to this day! Why do you think Ryan O'Reilly is still unsigned?

I absolutely agree with you that John Anderson is better than Sacco and was canned for much less. This list of those examples is staggering. The only thing that makes any reasonable sense for me is this: the FO knows that to bring in a REAL coach with experience and a proven winner will cost a lot of $$$$$ and since we're still 'rebuilding' a great coach isn't going to mean we win the cup over a mediocre coach, so let's stick with the cheap guy until we're ready.

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01-29-2013, 02:28 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by TheStranger View Post
If I thought the fans had enough heart to make any noise at all at the Pepsi Centre, I'd say to start a "Fire Sacco" chant. However I've never heard more than a whisper from the crowd there since about 2002, so I doubt that will ever happen.
Most probably know firing our mediocre coach will have almost no impact so why act like douchers at the game?

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01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Stems from the fact the guy is a compulsive trader that destroyed our future for years and kept FG in charge allowing him to lead us in mediocrity for far too long.

He is technically 'The Boss' but he's either overreaching by keeping himself in charge of too much (sometimes decisions feel far too 'familiar' in this organization, leading towards the idea he is the common denominator in them all) or too little (e.g. Not removing Sacco if he is indeed preventing Sherman from doing so).

His presence on the organization has spanned three decades now and to many (including myself) it is time to move on.

This largely coincides with the secretive nature of our organization, preventing us from truly knowing where the puppet strings lead, but all signs point towards Pierre at this time.
So what you are basically implying is that the Avs run their business like a Mob family?

Also thanks Texan.


Last edited by S E P H: 01-29-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
  #143
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Any reasons why john Anderson is better then sacco? He also wasn't canned Atlanta didn't reup him in a desperate attempt to stay alive as an organization.

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01-29-2013, 02:39 PM
  #144
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No on Ron Wilson.

For Jacques Martin, he at least fits the bill as far as having the 'Lacroix-connections' needed to land a job like this.

My personal preference is still Patrick Roy.
I actually wouldn't mind Wilson, he is emotional and has the fire of passion that will rub off to the players. Sadly I think he needs more knowledge on the coaching aspect of the game.

Again the best choice is,

W: 423 L: 253 T: 59
.616 winning percentage and two national championships. First name begins with George.

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01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The question is:

Does our struggles on the pk, transition, zone entry and so on come from our coaches not being good enough with details, x's and o's or do they come from our players not being smart and skilled enough?

I think, especially with missing the players we are missing now, the answer will have more of the latter than I am comfortable with. Seeing this team struggle to connect passes and making the most stupid zone entry decisions, I think we will need some on-ice personnel upgrades as well as coaching upgrades to go anywhere.

Let's leave PP for the time being. It looked horrible but was reasonably effective last year. I think they might turn it into something that's acceptable.
I respectfully disagree here.

The reasons are as follows :

- I have seen some pretty average even mediocre rosters play good sound SYSTEMS and play them well, to the point where they were competitive

* Florida Panthers last year did NOT have a better roster than the Avs
* Columbus Blue Jackets 2008-09 (Hitchcock)
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...023302009.html
* A few of those Jacques Lemaire coached Minnesota Wild teams!

The point is, we've all seen teams overachieve with a coach that was able to play to his roster's strength. Joe Sacco seems to want the Avs to have a powerplay that ressembles the red wings but without Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. The worse part is, that he doesn't seem to have any OTHER ideas and keeps trying the same thing over and over without making any adjustments. It's no wonder we are AWFUL against our own division, they play us the most, already know what we're going to do and have a counter all prepared.

I believe we have enough skill and talent in our roster to work some systems which could be acceptable maybe even pretty good but our coaching staff just isn't good enough with the Xs & Os as you put it. You keep wondering what the hell are they doing out there?

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01-29-2013, 02:44 PM
  #146
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Any reasons why john Anderson is better then sacco? He also wasn't canned Atlanta didn't reup him in a desperate attempt to stay alive as an organization.
I believe he WON at the AHL level.

The decision not to re-up in Winnipeg was from new ownership as they already 'had their guy' in Claude Noel.

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01-29-2013, 02:50 PM
  #147
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Any reasons why john Anderson is better then sacco? He also wasn't canned Atlanta didn't reup him in a desperate attempt to stay alive as an organization.
Was a winning coach in the minors, knew how to build a system and is now currently employed in Phoenix doing wonders for their special teams.

Bender, you make great points and I appreciate them. I guess I'm still trying to separate where I see the gap between Sherman/Lacroix. But we all do know Lacroix is far too ill to truly do everything still and any good GM would use a committee approach by getting the entire office's opinion before major decisions... I'm still leaning towards the ideas coming from Sherman orchestrating things like the EJ, McGinn trades whereas Lacroix simply giving him the go ahead.

Meanwhile someone like Sacco I could see him saying no on removing.

Speculation... of course.

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01-29-2013, 03:03 PM
  #148
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You can't just look at an AHL record and claim he is better. Unless you actually watched the hawks AHL team and are in the PHX's locker room it is impossible to truly know. What we do know is he did nothing but potter along with the thrashers the way sacco is with Avs. Its crazy how mental even the more knowledgeable posters here get with Sacco. The team has much, much, much bigger problems then head coach. Pointless to waste a good coach on a below average team

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01-29-2013, 03:06 PM
  #149
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I'll never forgive Wilson for Nagano.

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01-29-2013, 03:24 PM
  #150
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I'm not going to hold Sacco's lousy AHL record against him. The Monsters were a brand new team under his watch and since the rebuild had only just begun, they were a thoroughly lousy team as well.

Anderson was a terrible head coach. Not sure I'd want him here. Great NHL assistant and AHL head coach, yeah, but not good in the NHL.

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