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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:04 PM
  #626
Remington 700
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Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post


Buy the ******* out, then! Throw that money at a Bernier offer-sheet.
You need your own draft picks to offer sheet a player. We would need Calgary to trade us back our first, and possibly San Jose our second. I think we have our third.

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05-11-2013, 12:09 PM
  #627
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Man this Fleury hate is something else. His save% is 2nd best in his career at .916 and his goals against has steadily declined since he came into the league from 3.64 to 2.39. Not to mention all the while carrying 80% of the games the last 4 yrs.

I agree Fleury hasn't played well the previous three games, but he shut out the Islanders in game 1, then like a switch the Isles came alive and IMO Pit never matched their intensity until 2nd period in game 5. There is something to be said for momentum, and it certainly didn't help that he didn't make the big saves in games 2-4 that we needed to bury NY, but I don't think it is all on MAF.

Martin Brodeur when he was 28 finished his season with a worse save% .910 than MAF and slightly better GAA 2.24. I'll keep MAF around and didn't they sign Hartzell to compete with TV to back up MAF and potentially be a replacement?

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05-11-2013, 12:26 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
Man this Fleury hate is something else. His save% is 2nd best in his career at .916 and his goals against has steadily declined since he came into the league from 3.64 to 2.39. Not to mention all the while carrying 80% of the games the last 4 yrs.

I agree Fleury hasn't played well the previous three games, but he shut out the Islanders in game 1, then like a switch the Isles came alive and IMO Pit never matched their intensity until 2nd period in game 5. There is something to be said for momentum, and it certainly didn't help that he didn't make the big saves in games 2-4 that we needed to bury NY, but I don't think it is all on MAF.

Martin Brodeur when he was 28 finished his season with a worse save% .910 than MAF and slightly better GAA 2.24. I'll keep MAF around and didn't they sign Hartzell to compete with TV to back up MAF and potentially be a replacement?
Why are you citing regular season numbers when nobody here is concerned with them?

A ******** monkey could play net and get them to the playoffs, which is all we care about. It's how the goalie performs once we get there that matters, and Fleury's stunk at historical levels on that front.

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05-11-2013, 12:33 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
Man this Fleury hate is something else. His save% is 2nd best in his career at .916 and his goals against has steadily declined since he came into the league from 3.64 to 2.39. Not to mention all the while carrying 80% of the games the last 4 yrs.

I agree Fleury hasn't played well the previous three games, but he shut out the Islanders in game 1, then like a switch the Isles came alive and IMO Pit never matched their intensity until 2nd period in game 5. There is something to be said for momentum, and it certainly didn't help that he didn't make the big saves in games 2-4 that we needed to bury NY, but I don't think it is all on MAF.

Martin Brodeur when he was 28 finished his season with a worse save% .910 than MAF and slightly better GAA 2.24. I'll keep MAF around and didn't they sign Hartzell to compete with TV to back up MAF and potentially be a replacement?
Unreal.

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05-11-2013, 01:03 PM
  #630
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A ******** monkey could play net and get them to the playoffs, which is all we care about. It's how the goalie performs once we get there that matters, and Fleury's stunk at historical levels on that front.

Ask Tampa how their ******** monkey got them to the golf course despite having Stamkos, St. Louis, Lecavalier. Or Philly who brought back basically the same team that dismantled the Pens but goaltending was atrocious.

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05-11-2013, 01:05 PM
  #631
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Unreal.
Cool story bro, thanks for the riveting input.

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05-11-2013, 01:07 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
Ask Tampa how their ******** monkey got them to the golf course despite having Stamkos, St. Louis, Lecavalier. Or Philly who brought back basically the same team that dismantled the Pens but goaltending was atrocious.
Philly and Tampa have terrible defenses. We do not.

We have a terrible playoff goalie.

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05-11-2013, 01:14 PM
  #633
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Something tells me we haven't seen the last of Fleury in this postseason.

If the Pens did decide to trade Fleury though, I don't think there would be a shortage of teams interested. The only thing wrong with him right now is how he has played in the postseason the last several years. There are some of those bubble teams that I think would love to have the regular season Fleury and would take their chances with the playoff Fleury. He's still under 30, won a Cup, and has a ton of athletic ability. I can imagine a team saying ""all he needs is a change of scenery".

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05-11-2013, 01:22 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
A ******** monkey could play net and get them to the playoffs, which is all we care about. It's how the goalie performs once we get there that matters, and Fleury's stunk at historical levels on that front.

Ask Tampa how their ******** monkey got them to the golf course despite having Stamkos, St. Louis, Lecavalier. Or Philly who brought back basically the same team that dismantled the Pens but goaltending was atrocious.
Bryzgalov was far from the problem this year in Philly

And when was the last time you watched Lecavalier play? Cause it's a few years he has been brutal

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05-11-2013, 01:25 PM
  #635
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One defensemen on Tampa had a negative +/- and finished 14th in the conference. They couldn't keep the puck out of the net. Point is you need a goalie who can get them to the dance. From there running into a hot goaltender can ruin even the best teams chances of advances (i.e Roloson when we lost to Tampa or the Kings last yr). I'm as frustrated with MAF as anybody, but to say he is worthless is silly.

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05-11-2013, 01:27 PM
  #636
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With the cap dropping and with the ability to buy Fleury out with no penalty.. there is literally no better time than now (this offseason) to make the change.
I think the amnesty buyouts can be done this summer or next summer. Of course if it's only this year we have to act sooner.

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05-11-2013, 01:38 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
One defensemen on Tampa had a negative +/- and finished 14th in the conference. They couldn't keep the puck out of the net. Point is you need a goalie who can get them to the dance. From there running into a hot goaltender can ruin even the best teams chances of advances (i.e Roloson when we lost to Tampa or the Kings last yr). I'm as frustrated with MAF as anybody, but to say he is worthless is silly.
We might as well get a Dwayne Roloson, then. It'd cost a fraction of what Fleury does, and there's at least a chance he wouldn't flame out in the playoffs every single year.

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Old
05-11-2013, 01:40 PM
  #638
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I think the amnesty buyouts can be done this summer or next summer. Of course if it's only this year we have to act sooner.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...t-two-summers/

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05-11-2013, 02:04 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
Man this Fleury hate is something else. His save% is 2nd best in his career at .916 and his goals against has steadily declined since he came into the league from 3.64 to 2.39. Not to mention all the while carrying 80% of the games the last 4 yrs.

I agree Fleury hasn't played well the previous three games, but he shut out the Islanders in game 1, then like a switch the Isles came alive and IMO Pit never matched their intensity until 2nd period in game 5. There is something to be said for momentum, and it certainly didn't help that he didn't make the big saves in games 2-4 that we needed to bury NY, but I don't think it is all on MAF.

Martin Brodeur when he was 28 finished his season with a worse save% .910 than MAF and slightly better GAA 2.24. I'll keep MAF around and didn't they sign Hartzell to compete with TV to back up MAF and potentially be a replacement?
If you insist on using GAA and SV%, how does MAF compare to the league average? Also factor in SV% has increased and goals per game have decreased since the lockout.

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Old
05-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #640
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I still think khubodin is the one we should go after, romours are boston will let him go and if he doesnt get an offer he will got to the khl. There will be alot of bidders though.

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Old
05-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #641
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Fleury would be top-5 goalie in this league, if he could stop play himself out of the position and play more of that calm style. He is pure reflex/acrobatic **** with bad rebound control, but that doesn't work in long run. Yes it is beautiful style but this ain't the circus. Maybe he figures it out in late 30's that he needs to play calmer style to be like Vokoun.

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05-11-2013, 02:56 PM
  #642
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Straying away from the goalie talk here, but I was thinking about how we need to clear up some cap space. A lot of it will probably have to come from the defense. I think Shero will let Orpik play out his contract here, and I don't really see him trading Martin until Dumoulin/Harrington get some experience.

That leaves Niskanen. I'd rather not pay a third pairing defensemen $2.3m when we have a lot of guys in the system that can play for much less. Do you think we could get anything for him in a trade?

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05-11-2013, 03:57 PM
  #643
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If we let go Fleury, we need to have a succession plan in place. I have zero desire to watch a carousel of goaltenders like many teams do (and a team like Philly has done since Hextall). I'd keep Fleury until that happens, and then deal with him.

My hope for the next goaltender, if there is a next goaltender, is that he can play the puck. The one thing that would make Bylsma's system really take a jump to the next level is having a goaltender who could push the puck up ice. Having a goaltender to do that would also keep our guys fresher because they wouldn't have to come back and regroup every single time a team shot the puck down the ice.

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05-11-2013, 04:11 PM
  #644
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My hope for the next goaltender, if there is a next goaltender, is that he can play the puck.
I hear Dipietro might be available...

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05-11-2013, 04:19 PM
  #645
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I hear Dipietro might be available...
Status is year-to-year with a broken ego.

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Old
05-11-2013, 05:47 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
That leaves Niskanen. I'd rather not pay a third pairing defensemen $2.3m when we have a lot of guys in the system that can play for much less. Do you think we could get anything for him in a trade?
Gologoski brought us Neal and Niskanen. I'd take Niskanen over Gologoski, so I have to think we could get something for him

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Old
05-11-2013, 06:00 PM
  #647
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Hoping, and this is a stretch, that Harrington can become a Duncan Keith type of guy.
,

If Harrington could skate like Duncan Keith, he could probably become a #1 Dman, and put him on par with a guy like Ryan Murray, or a guy like Ryan McDonough at the least. His lack of super-high-end speed is the only thing separating him from being a #2-3 guy who brings moderate offense to more of a high-end #1/2 guy (who maybe isn't an elite point producer or Norris candidate, but certainly a top-3 defensive Dman in the entire league who also has some offensive ability).

Anyway, his skating has already improved, as has his physical play. That will continue this summer, especially if they don't make it to the Mem Cup and he has more time to train. If he tops out at being a "better version of Scuderi with more offense" or a Dan Girardi type player, I'll be pretty damn happy -- and I think this is very realistic. There's about 1 inch and 10lbs separating Harry from Girardi, and nothing except more innate offensive ability by Harry than Scuderi. And the good thing: Harrington is a lot better at 18/19/20 years old than either of those guys were. Better pure hockey sense and innate leadership to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torrencemd View Post
A ******** monkey could play net and get them to the playoffs, which is all we care about. It's how the goalie performs once we get there that matters, and Fleury's stunk at historical levels on that front.

Bingo.

Ask Tampa how their ******** monkey got them to the golf course despite having Stamkos, St. Louis, Lecavalier. Or Philly who brought back basically the same team that dismantled the Pens but goaltending was atrocious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Philly and Tampa have terrible defenses. We do not.

We have a terrible playoff goalie.
And Bingo again.

And like I said, the market will soon be flooded with high-end goalies. ANA will not be able keep both Fasth and Hiller (esp with Gibson coming in), LA not Quick and Bernier, WSH not Holtby and Neuvirth, STL not Allen + Halak + Elliot, OTT not Lehner and Anderson, DAL not Lehtonen and Campbell (when he's soon ready), Phoenix not Mike Smith and Mike Visentin (when he's soon ready), CGY all three of Brossoit + Reto Bera and Karri Ramo, Boston with Rask + Khudobin + Subban (when he's ready), MIN with Backstrom + Kuemper + Harding, and others.

So whether it's high-end guys, or other guys, there will be a flood of goalies available over the next 1-3 years, when Voky starts to decline. And he's still not too old to be a starter, but we just need to find him a back-up so he doesn't have to play 70 games, and play about 55-60 instead.

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Old
05-11-2013, 06:59 PM
  #648
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Do you guys think Hartzell can step into the starters role in the next 2 years?

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Old
05-11-2013, 08:34 PM
  #649
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Do you guys still like Douglas Murray? Every Pens game I've seen he's been brutally awful.

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05-11-2013, 09:18 PM
  #650
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Do you guys think Hartzell can step into the starters role in the next 2 years?
starter... in the AHL? I think so.

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