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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
05-24-2013, 10:22 PM
  #801
rkhum
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Man, I was always against a re-sign in this case but Murray has been pretty much perfect here so far. I guess that will come down to asking price.
He's been the Scuds/Hal Gill we kept asking for.

As for Duper, he can cash in or he can stay in Pittsburgh where he has developed post age 30 into a great two way player.

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05-24-2013, 11:06 PM
  #802
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Vokoun can't carry a 50 game load and be a playoff starter.
I think having Fleury play 40-50 games and then Vokoun the rest in the regular season is fine.
Well, then the Pens resign Dupuis and that's it. Nothing else. No real money to speak of when the deadline hits.

Vokoun can play 40-50. Find another vet to split time. No way I want to spend 5M on a goalie to play 40-50 regular season games but who I can't count on when the playoffs come. Horrible cap management.

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05-24-2013, 11:09 PM
  #803
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There will be alot of goalies available in the next two seasons. I also seem to have this sad hope that we will be able to sign lundqvist..Cant wait to be dissapointed.

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05-24-2013, 11:09 PM
  #804
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We can trade Nisky, add another forward for league minimum and do something like this for next year:

FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.650m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.578m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,813,333; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $571,667

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Old
05-24-2013, 11:17 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
We can trade Nisky, add another forward for league minimum and do something like this for next year:

FORWARDS
Pascal Dupuis ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.650m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.578m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,813,333; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $571,667
No offense, but if THAT is my roster, especially on the blueline and fourth line, then I want Ray Shero to have a lot more than 2M in prorated cap space for the deadline (and he'll have even less if you consider per diem injury replacements). THIS is how Ray Shero managed the Pens under the cap from the day they won the cup until this season. Not having space at the deadline limited what he could do. Buyout Glass. Save about 3M on the goalie salary. Gives Shero a lot more flexibility.

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05-24-2013, 11:21 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
There will be alot of goalies available in the next two seasons. I also seem to have this sad hope that we will be able to sign lundqvist..Cant wait to be dissapointed.
There's actually not that many goalies available, especially quality goalies. There are 40 UFA goalies this summer of which only 4 were starters this season (Backstrom, Khabibulin, Nabokov, and Smith). Next summer, there are only 19 goalies currently signed that are slated to become UFAs; the quality of those is a little better, but they're much less likely to actually reach free agency. The only quality potential 2014 UFAs I could actually see becoming free agents are Hiller and Halak.

As the Flyers saw over the past couple decades, it's nearly impossible to get a quality starter out of free agency. That's why it's so important to draft and develop. Look at LA: Quick & Bernier are home-grown, they let Zatkoff walk despite appearing to have a bright future, Martin Jones (23yo) looks like a quality prospect in Manchester, and Chris Gibson will be going pro next season. I wouldn't doubt we see them draft another goalie in the 3rd or 4th round this year just to ensure their pool is stocked.

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05-24-2013, 11:27 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No offense, but if THAT is my roster, especially on the blueline and fourth line, then I want Ray Shero to have a lot more than 2M in prorated cap space for the deadline (and he'll have even less if you consider per diem injury replacements). THIS is how Ray Shero managed the Pens under the cap from the day they won the cup until this season. Not having space at the deadline limited what he could do. Buyout Glass. Save about 3M on the goalie salary. Gives Shero a lot more flexibility.
Would we buyout Glass? I mean I'd spearhead that movement, but I don't know if a team would buyout a $1.1m contract. I'd see what we could get for Orpik, too, but I think the team let's him play out his contract.

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05-24-2013, 11:31 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Would we buyout Glass? I mean I'd spearhead that movement, but I don't know if a team would buyout a $1.1m contract. I'd see what we could get for Orpik, too, but I think the team let's him play out his contract.
I doubt they will, but they should. I don't want to be paying anyone on the 4th line more than 750K per year. Better to save the extra money for the deadline.

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05-24-2013, 11:47 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
There's actually not that many goalies available, especially quality goalies. There are 40 UFA goalies this summer of which only 4 were starters this season (Backstrom, Khabibulin, Nabokov, and Smith). Next summer, there are only 19 goalies currently signed that are slated to become UFAs; the quality of those is a little better, but they're much less likely to actually reach free agency. The only quality potential 2014 UFAs I could actually see becoming free agents are Hiller and Halak.

As the Flyers saw over the past couple decades, it's nearly impossible to get a quality starter out of free agency. That's why it's so important to draft and develop. Look at LA: Quick & Bernier are home-grown, they let Zatkoff walk despite appearing to have a bright future, Martin Jones (23yo) looks like a quality prospect in Manchester, and Chris Gibson will be going pro next season. I wouldn't doubt we see them draft another goalie in the 3rd or 4th round this year just to ensure their pool is stocked.
I meant more in terms of trading. Goalies like neuvirth, bernier, bishop/lindback, etc. Also wouldnt mind offersheeting bob for 4.5/2y.

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05-24-2013, 11:57 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
I meant more in terms of trading. Goalies like neuvirth, bernier, bishop/lindback, etc. Also wouldnt mind offersheeting bob for 4.5/2y.
Neuvirth is the only one of those I could see being a viable option.

I don't see either Bishop or Lindback as anything more than a long-term backup solution. And with Garon's contract being up, I don't see either of them being available.

Bernier is likely going to cost at least a 1st round pick + a top prospect to acquire.

I also don't think $4.5-million per year is going to even come close to getting Bobrovsky. I can see Columbus matching any offer, but even at $4.5-million the compensation would be 1st and 3rd round picks. I'm actually expecting Bobrosvky to be re-signed in the $5.5- to $6-million range.


Again, this is why drafting & developing is so important. Shero has to take some of the blame for drafting so few goalies in his time with the Pens, though I'm not sure how their development would go with Meloche's coaching anyway.

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05-25-2013, 12:05 AM
  #811
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
Neuvirth is the only one of those I could see being a viable option.

I don't see either Bishop or Lindback as anything more than a long-term backup solution. And with Garon's contract being up, I don't see either of them being available.

Bernier is likely going to cost at least a 1st round pick + a top prospect to acquire.

I also don't think $4.5-million per year is going to even come close to getting Bobrovsky. I can see Columbus matching any offer, but even at $4.5-million the compensation would be 1st and 3rd round picks. I'm actually expecting Bobrosvky to be re-signed in the $5.5- to $6-million range.


Again, this is why drafting & developing is so important. Shero has to take some of the blame for drafting so few goalies in his time with the Pens, though I'm not sure how their development would go with Meloche's coaching anyway.
I dont think blaming shero is really fair though. During most of sheros time here fleury has been our franchise goaltender and he has drafted goalies although they didnt turn into much. But he has stockpiled some talents. I think maguire and murray both have the potential to be starters but not for another 5 years. Although hartzell and zatkoff are definitely interesting. Alot of people seems to be thinking here that shero will keep fleury, which may be true but he will almost surely try to look for a replacement.

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05-25-2013, 01:49 AM
  #812
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Hey all,

Just wondering your thoughts on the future of Beau Bennett next season. How likely is he that he earns a full-time spot in the lineup next year? If Iginla isn't re-signed will he have a shot at the top 6? Or is he destined for the bottom 6 next year? How soon could he crack the top 6 if so?

Thanks

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05-25-2013, 01:55 AM
  #813
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Hey all,

Just wondering your thoughts on the future of Beau Bennett next season. How likely is he that he earns a full-time spot in the lineup next year? If Iginla isn't re-signed will he have a shot at the top 6? Or is he destined for the bottom 6 next year? How soon could he crack the top 6 if so?

Thanks
He'll have a full-time spot in the lineup next year without a doubt. He probably should this year as well, but that's a whole other story.

If we resign both Iginla and Dupuis he'll likely be on the third line (at least to start the year), if we only resign one then he'll be in the top six. But undoubtedly, his future with this team will involve playing alongside one of Crosby/Malkin long term, most likely sometime within the next two seasons.

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05-25-2013, 02:16 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
He'll have a full-time spot in the lineup next year without a doubt. He probably should this year as well, but that's a whole other story.

If we resign both Iginla and Dupuis he'll likely be on the third line (at least to start the year), if we only resign one then he'll be in the top six. But undoubtedly, his future with this team will involve playing alongside one of Crosby/Malkin long term, most likely sometime within the next two seasons.
Thanks. How do you project his long-term production? 20 goal, 40 assist guy?

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05-25-2013, 02:33 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
Thanks. How do you project his long-term production? 20 goal, 40 assist guy?
20 goal, 40 assist guy sounds about right based on what I've seen. He's definitely more of a playmaker than a finisher.

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05-25-2013, 05:25 AM
  #816
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Beau's goal potential is a weird thing to talk about, because it will really come down to how much he is willing to shoot at the NHL, which I don't think any of us can really make an opinion one way or another, as he hasn't played an extended period of time in the top 6 with skilled centers passing him up.

If he shoots as much as Hemsky...I could see him scoring 20 goals a season. I do imagine him though, in his prime, being in the upper 20's or low 30's mainly because that left wall of the powerplay will be his, and some of the shots he has taken since he's been in Pittsburgh have been unbelievable snipes.

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05-25-2013, 06:54 AM
  #817
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Beau's goal potential is a weird thing to talk about, because it will really come down to how much he is willing to shoot at the NHL, which I don't think any of us can really make an opinion one way or another, as he hasn't played an extended period of time in the top 6 with skilled centers passing him up.

If he shoots as much as Hemsky...I could see him scoring 20 goals a season. I do imagine him though, in his prime, being in the upper 20's or low 30's mainly because that left wall of the powerplay will be his, and some of the shots he has taken since he's been in Pittsburgh have been unbelievable snipes.
How likely do you see him hitting his potential? Is his worst case a 3rd line 10g-20a guy?

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05-25-2013, 12:10 PM
  #818
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Do people really think Fleury wont get traded this summer? I mean unless something happens and he comes in for Vokoun in the playoffs here and has completely turned his game around I don't see any way he's not moved this summer to a team who will give him less pressure like Edm/Cal/Min etc.

I think Shero will put him out of his misery and give him a chance at a new start if for no other reason than he really has a high respect for MAF and doesn't want to put him in a bad situation again going forward.

I fully expect Shero to look for other goalie options this summer whether it be trading for a guy like Miller, or having Vokoun be the main guy playing 50 or so and picking up a guy like Bernier and hoping he becomes our future.

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05-25-2013, 12:15 PM
  #819
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How likely do you see him hitting his potential? Is his worst case a 3rd line 10g-20a guy?
He's very likely to reach the 20 goal, 40 assist range, imo. I'd be shocked if he only turns into a 10 goal, 20 assist guy based on what I've seen of him so far. The kid seems way too smart and skilled to be that unproductive offensively, especially when you consider the talent that will be around him to help bolster his stats throughout his career here.

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05-25-2013, 12:15 PM
  #820
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Man, I was always against a re-sign in this case but Murray has been pretty much perfect here so far. I guess that will come down to asking price.
As bad as I thought Murray looked for us in the regular season, he has looked really really good for us in the playoffs. He's very very slow, but he gets away with the stick play and hooking grabbing in the playoffs and he rarely ever makes bad decisions. Really knows how conservative he must play and always takes the body.

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05-25-2013, 12:41 PM
  #821
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I notice that just about everybody is penciling Iginla into next year's line-up. I think right now it's probably a toss-up whether he comes back. I'm sure they would like to have him back, but it's going to come down to a lot of factors, like the term/money he will settle for and how high they prioritize him against the other things they want to do.

I'd have some concern that his game could really slip over the next two or three years. The world we've been hearing is that they don't think he skates well enough to play with Crosby. If true that's not exactly encouraging.

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05-25-2013, 01:59 PM
  #822
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Do people really think Fleury wont get traded this summer? I mean unless something happens and he comes in for Vokoun in the playoffs here and has completely turned his game around I don't see any way he's not moved this summer to a team who will give him less pressure like Edm/Cal/Min etc.

I think Shero will put him out of his misery and give him a chance at a new start if for no other reason than he really has a high respect for MAF and doesn't want to put him in a bad situation again going forward.

I fully expect Shero to look for other goalie options this summer whether it be trading for a guy like Miller, or having Vokoun be the main guy playing 50 or so and picking up a guy like Bernier and hoping he becomes our future.
Edmonton and Calgary likely have no interest in Fleruy. Edmonton is fully confident in Dubnyk, and Calgary is rebuilding.

I'm not even sure that Minnesota would have the cap space for him. They were right against the cap this year ($70.1-million). They've got $8.5-million in cap space for next season and I figure we'll see them re-sign Bouchard @ $3-million, Clutterbuck @ $1.5-million, and Falk @ $2.5-million, leaving them with $1.5-million to find a goalie.

I don't see any way they can trade Fleury without retaining half his salary. They could buy him out, but then they'll have to move additional assets to bring a goalie in via trade. This is why I don't see them getting rid of Fleury - it's going to be too costly to do it.

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05-25-2013, 04:47 PM
  #823
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Edmonton and Calgary likely have no interest in Fleruy. Edmonton is fully confident in Dubnyk, and Calgary is rebuilding.
For the record new Oilers GM MacTavish just recently announced that they arent at all 'fully confident with Dubnyk' and will be adding a goaltender this summer.
With that being said, I think it's very safe to say that Oilers would still have no interest in Fleury. Smith & Backstrom hitting free agency, Bryzgalov potentially bought out and Miller, Luongo, Hiller, Halak available, it is very much a buyers market.
That and all the media types here have been convinced Fleury is the most overrated goalie in the league for quite some time.

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05-25-2013, 04:56 PM
  #824
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For the record new Oilers GM MacTavish just recently announced that they arent at all 'fully confident with Dubnyk' and will be adding a goaltender this summer.
With that being said, I think it's very safe to say that Oilers would still have no interest in Fleury. Smith & Backstrom hitting free agency, Bryzgalov potentially bought out and Miller, Luongo, Hiller, Halak available, it is very much a buyers market.
That and all the media types here have been convinced Fleury is the most overrated goalie in the league for quite some time.
I hadn't heard that, good to know.

As you said though, they're likely still not interested in Fleury anyway and that was the primary point I was trying to make. The list of teams that would be interested in Fleury, especially at $11.5-million ($5-million cap hit) for the next two years, is virtually non-existent.

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05-25-2013, 05:24 PM
  #825
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I hadn't heard that, good to know.

As you said though, they're likely still not interested in Fleury anyway and that was the primary point I was trying to make. The list of teams that would be interested in Fleury, especially at $11.5-million ($5-million cap hit) for the next two years, is virtually non-existent.
Your just pulling this out of nowhere. Teams are willing to trade for miller, maybe loungo but not fleury? He has a cheaper cap hit, 2 year contract and yound enough to be considered a reclamation project type of player. Alot of teams would give up atleast even a minor asset for that.

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