HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

One Way To Right The Ship

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2013, 12:07 PM
  #51
Brick Top
eeeehhhhhhhhhhh
 
Brick Top's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 1,816
vCash: 500
I think Detroit will struggle this season, but are probably better than they showed against the Blues. There isn't just one thing that will fix everything and make them WC champion favorites again. The D is a mess of mediocrity and needs a solid stay at home PK guy and top pairing stud, and the forward corps seems slow overall and not very physical.

I don't see many/any quick fixes for this season, but the team leadership and coaches need to step up. I was stunned at how unprepared and just plain bad the Wings looked in their first game. I get that there was a short training camp and they are working some new guys into the team, but there was no excuse for that lack of effort or execution (oh, and every team had a short camp and most are rolling with new guys as well). I think Z has a big challenge already as the new captain, Kronwall and the other vets need to provide leadership as well, and Babcock has to get the team together and be willing to make the necessary adjustments to lines and pairings.

Brick Top is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 12:22 PM
  #52
sully61
Unregistered User
 
sully61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,486
vCash: 500
I think all you can do this year is sign Anthony Stewart for some physicality up front and then make a trade for a guy like Gill, Murray, Scuderi, etc to make our defense tougher and our PK better. That's what we can do in the short term. Long term, we need to get younger, faster, and bigger. I think we are heading in that direction because 2011 and 2012 drafts we got some big and fast guys. In free agency we need to try to sign guys that aren't necessarily the best skilled, but guys who can fill roles in the team.

sully61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:00 PM
  #53
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,461
vCash: 500
My Absolute Panic Reload Plan:

-Death for Seth
-Buyout Sammy and Bert
-Trade Quincey and Kindl to some places like San Jose who could need him next year after buyouts
-Waive/Trade Cola
-Go nuts in FA- Sign Perry and Horton
-Trade Franzen for Volchenkov
-Do the right thing and sign Rozsival this time around
-Rookie Palooza to make everybody who wants to throw our young guns to the wolves happy

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Corey Perry ($6.660m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.250m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Nathan Horton ($4.500m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jan Mursak ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Anton Volchenkov ($4.250m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Seth Jones ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($1.500m) / Michal Rozsival ($2.000m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.675m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($3.550m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,866,667; BONUSES: $480,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,913,333

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
  #54
TatarTangle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
It's going to be difficult to convince players like Perry and Horton to come to Detroit when other teams are in a lot better positions. I'm not saying it's impossible but KH would have to offer more money than what he is historically willing to spend.

TatarTangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:07 PM
  #55
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
It's going to be difficult to convince players like Perry and Horton to come to Detroit when other teams are in a lot better positions. I'm not saying it's impossible but KH would have to offer more money than what he is historically willing to spend.
One bad season, and we're suddenly Cellar Dwellers?


JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:09 PM
  #56
TatarTangle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
One bad season, and we're suddenly Cellar Dwellers?

Please tell me where I said such a thing

/facepalm

TatarTangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:13 PM
  #57
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 11,508
vCash: 500
Ken holland expects elite players to take a discount to wear the Winged Wheel. That's why we won't be seeing Perry in Detroit.

Wings being a mediocre team won't help either.

WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:14 PM
  #58
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
Please tell me where I said such a thing

/facepalm
I don't know what else you are implying. Cellar Dwellars are typically the only teams that have to overpay to get star talent. Even teams like the Devils and Red Wings still have a winning culture and great environment in spite of a terrible season, and because of that FAs aren't going to avoid us like the plague.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:15 PM
  #59
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Ken holland expects elite players to take a discount to wear the Winged Wheel. That's why we won't be seeing Perry in Detroit.

Wings being a mediocre team won't help either.
Explain, your logic makes no sense to me. Are you still trying to claim Suter was Holland's fault? Because we've refuted this over and over.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:18 PM
  #60
RedWingsNow*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
I think all you can do this year is sign Anthony Stewart for some physicality up front and then make a trade for a guy like Gill, Murray, Scuderi, etc to make our defense tougher and our PK better. That's what we can do in the short term. Long term, we need to get younger, faster, and bigger. I think we are heading in that direction because 2011 and 2012 drafts we got some big and fast guys. In free agency we need to try to sign guys that aren't necessarily the best skilled, but guys who can fill roles in the team.
This is why I wanted a guy like Scott Hannan for $1M.

This is why the Quincey trade made no sense.

Last year we could have gone
Lidstrom Smith
Kronwall Stuart
Ericssson White
Kindl/Commodore/Jannik/lashoff/exelby in reserve

It really pisses me off that we're going with mediocre defensemen like CC and Quincey and White before Kindl.

I think Babcock might have a biast against the old "Soviet Block" countries.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:31 PM
  #61
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Explain, your logic makes no sense to me. Are you still trying to claim Suter was Holland's fault? Because we've refuted this over and over.
no its because 6-15 other teams and cities can NOW offer as much if not more to top free agents
-including competitive teams
-great futures with top prospects in the wings
-a recent track record of prospect development and implementation into meaningful and impactful roles in the NHL
-healthy, thriving and vibrant cities
-weather for some players is important
-world class facilities
etc

Detroit is still a top destination, but it is no longer THE top destination nor likely the top half dozen

Holland shouldnt "over pay" for every free agent, no, Holland should overpay for the one free agent he so desperately wants and covets and who we really need not just next year but 3, 5, 7 years from now.

Zetterberg4Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:50 PM
  #62
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 11,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Explain, your logic makes no sense to me. Are you still trying to claim Suter was Holland's fault? Because we've refuted this over and over.
I was actually referring to the comments made by James Wiesnewski in regards to the Wings being an organization that lowballs FA's. Wiz is terrible, but he is right about the Wings only paying the price they think is fair, even if its way out of line with the rest of the NHL.

The Detroit Red Wings do not carry that kind of weight anymore in the NHL. You notice how Holland is only able to attract journeyman players or washed up veterans? Some of that is by design, but the rest of it is because they have no choice. They could play prospects, but Ken Holland doesn't play prospects until they are eligible for social security.

The Winged Wheel discount is dead.


Zach Parise is an excellent example. Can you tell me with a straight face, "The Wings do not need Parise?"

Of course they needed him, but Holland offered 65 million. Is that Parise's real value? Probably, but it doesn't matter since there will be plenty of other GM's who disagree. Preserving cap space does not matter if you can't find anyone to spend it on. Signing Mikael Sameulsson and CC is wasting cap space.

I still think Holland was far too conservative with Suter. He should have offered a blank check. He was the only way the Wings would avoid a total rebuild and he is now paying the price, which is a total rebuild that will happen very, very soon.

Ken Holland can keep calling it a "rebuild on the fly" but he isn't fooling anyone.

WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:57 PM
  #63
Jurky
Rotting in purgatory
 
Jurky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,105
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I was actually referring to the comments made by James Wiesnewski in regards to the Wings being an organization that lowballs FA's. Wiz is terrible, but he is right about the Wings only paying the price they think is fair, even if its way out of line with the rest of the NHL.

The Detroit Red Wings do not carry that kind of weight anymore in the NHL. You notice how Holland is only able to attract journeyman players or washed up veterans? Some of that is by design, but the rest of it is because they have no choice. They could play prospects, but Ken Holland doesn't play prospects until they are eligible for social security.

The Winged Wheel discount is dead.


Zach Parise is an excellent example. Can you tell me with a straight face, "The Wings do not need Parise?"

Of course they needed him, but Holland offered 65 million. Is that Parise's real value? Probably, but it doesn't matter since there will be plenty of other GM's who disagree. Preserving cap space does not matter if you can't find anyone to spend it on. Signing Mikael Sameulsson and CC is wasting cap space.

I still think Holland was far too conservative with Suter. He should have offered a blank check. He was the only way the Wings would avoid a total rebuild and he is now paying the price, which is a total rebuild that will happen very, very soon.

Ken Holland can keep calling it a "rebuild on the fly" but he isn't fooling anyone.
Hasn't this subject been beaten to death already?? Suter was going wherever Parise was going and that was Minny.

Jurky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:57 PM
  #64
TatarTangle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I don't know what else you are implying. Cellar Dwellars are typically the only teams that have to overpay to get star talent. Even teams like the Devils and Red Wings still have a winning culture and great environment in spite of a terrible season, and because of that FAs aren't going to avoid us like the plague.
Everyone's replies were spot on so there isn't much more I have say. Not overpay, offer more than he historically does, which he would still have to do.

Parity has made the free agency market a lot more difficult. This isn't a league where 3-4 teams are dominant anymore. Ken Holland hasn't adjusted, it's that simple.

TatarTangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:00 PM
  #65
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 11,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Hasn't this subject been beaten to death already?? Suter was going wherever Parise was going and that was Minny.
If Holland offered a mega contract sooner instead of trying to massage the cap hit, maybe things would have turned out differently. Suter said the Wings were there up until the last moment, so maybe a more aggressive approach would have convinced him to sign before Parise called him.

WingedWheel1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:03 PM
  #66
Jurky
Rotting in purgatory
 
Jurky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,105
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
If Holland offered a mega contract sooner instead of trying to massage the cap hit, maybe things would have turned out differently. Suter said the Wings were there up until the last moment, so maybe a more aggressive approach would have convinced him to sign before Parise called him.
Plausible, but I don't buy it.

IMO Parise and Suter probably discussed their choice before July 1st. At the very least Parise and Suter decided to go as a package or were at least exploring the idea very early in free agency. IIRC Heatley was talking to both of them days before they signed in Minny.

Jurky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:21 PM
  #67
A1Portable
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
It's going to be difficult to convince players like Perry and Horton to come to Detroit when other teams are in a lot better positions. I'm not saying it's impossible but KH would have to offer more money than what he is historically willing to spend.
Yup. Furthermore, if the Wings start competing in free agent bidding wars, the Wings will very quickly bump up against the salary cap, and their ability to participate in the free agent market will stop dead in its tracks.

This scenario is another example why I end up back where I started: for the best interests of BOTH Datsyuk and the Wings, the Wings should trade Datsyuk this season, while he still has high value, for outstanding young prospects or picks. The Wings will not be able to rebuild the team through free agency. Free agency will enable the Wings to add one or two key pieces of the puzzle once the core of another championship team is back in place, not before.

A1Portable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:33 PM
  #68
TatarTangle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1Portable View Post
Yup. Furthermore, if the Wings start competing in free agent bidding wars, the Wings will very quickly bump up against the salary cap, and their ability to participate in the free agent market will stop dead in its tracks.

This scenario is another example why I end up back where I started: for the best interests of BOTH Datsyuk and the Wings, the Wings should trade Datsyuk this season, while he still has high value, for outstanding young prospects or picks. The Wings will not be able to rebuild the team through free agency. Free agency will enable the Wings to add one or two key pieces of the puzzle once the core of another championship team is back in place, not before.
I was open to this idea based on the uncertainty of a contract extension so I started a Pavel Datsyuk thread in the trade forum to see what his potential return would be. Long story short, not overly impressive. For the record; I would hate to see him go.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1318613

Ken Holland doesn't have his work cut-out, that's for sure, so we'll see how good of a GM he actually is.

TatarTangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:55 PM
  #69
A1Portable
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
I was open to this idea based on the uncertainty of a contract extension so I started a Pavel Datsyuk thread in the trade forum to see what his potential return would be. Long story short, not overly impressive. For the record; I would hate to see him go.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1318613

Ken Holland doesn't have his work cut-out, that's for sure, so we'll see how good of a GM he actually is.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I also would hate to see Datsyuk go, but I believe it would be in the best interests of both Datsyuk and the Wings.

A1Portable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:21 PM
  #70
VanBrett
Registered User
 
VanBrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Underwater.
Country: Canada
Posts: 512
vCash: 500
Play as many young guys as possible. We should have never re-signed Bert or signed Sammy. This team needs youth. Even if we suck this year, we get a good pick in a great draft, have Z and Dats to mentor them, and guys like Brunner, Nyquist, Tatar, and Smith all get playing time. I love Kenny, but I don't understand what he sees. He obviously is a hockey guru, but seriously, two 35+ year olds that don't help the team over youth that could possibly produce more? Come on.

VanBrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.