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Raffi Torres Hearing II [Mod Warning in first post]

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05-15-2013, 04:43 PM
  #1
ThirdManIn
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Raffi Torres Hearing II [Mod Warning in first post]

Continue.

This thread is about the Raffi Torres hearing associated with his hit on Stoll in last night's game. It is not about who is wearing homer glasses, or who has no room to talk because of X player being on their team, or who should have been suspended/called for a hit in whatever game. It is about the Torres hearing for a particular hit.

If you have a video of a comparable hit which either did or did not receive a suspension feel free to post it, but we ask that you provide your own input as to why the video is relevant to this discussion. Discussion of other players and their past is permitted with the same caveat; provide your own insight as to why this player is pertinent to the discussion. Simply throwing out examples of other hits or names of other players as an attempt to deflect from the topic at hand is off topic, and will be viewed as a means to derail the thread.

Do not attack one another. If you feel a post is wrong feel free to critique the post, but do not bring the poster into the critique. That is flaming.

Consider yourselves warned.




http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...stoll/2162363/

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...aring-possible

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...,1422355.story

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05-15-2013, 05:08 PM
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Live in the Now
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Opened.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:08 PM
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SJGoalie32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
That's a pretty big stretch, "any player" has a better than 99% chance of not having a history like Torres so it would in no way have implications on them.
Agreed.

Patrick Marleau doesn't have a history like that because Marleau would never throw that hit in the first place. In that same situation, Marleau would go after the puck first.

Another cleaner more physical player who would go for the hit would slow up to make more certain that his contact hits the shoulder not the head.

Torres has the history he does because, in that situation, Torres is the sort of player who will completely ignore the puck and try to level a devastating hit....completely regardless of whether or not he is sure that he can land that hit cleanly, safely, and legally.

A lot of other players who might be unsure that they could level a clean hit in that situation would ease up and deliver a lighter but more precise hit, or would ignore the and hit go for the puck instead. Torres doesn't because that's not the player he is. He is reckless.

Torres may not have intended to hit Stoll's head, but he did so because he was careless and reckless with another player's safety.

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05-15-2013, 05:08 PM
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Not suspension worthy #nohitleague

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05-15-2013, 05:11 PM
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couturefan39
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Torres is going to get suspended but Penner is not going to get ****.

I hate the Kings and their Pixie Dust.

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05-15-2013, 05:11 PM
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theMajor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Torres may not have intended to hit Stoll's head, but he did so because he was careless and reckless with another player's safety.



very similar to Browns elbow on Pominville. he threw a check with his head down and it ended up in Pommers face. much like the Torres hit, i dont believe the intent was there but they still need to be held accountable

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05-15-2013, 05:12 PM
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Ray Shero*
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Neutral fan.

Not a suspension but he gets one because he's Torres.

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05-15-2013, 05:12 PM
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David71
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clean hit. hes not gonna get suspended.

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05-15-2013, 05:13 PM
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The Big Giant Head
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couturefan39 View Post
Torres is going to get suspended but Penner is not going to get ****.

I hate the Kings and their Pixie Dust.
oh you missed in the last thread how we looked at the gif and it was determined that Penner got wingles in the chest with his elbow....aka..it was a legal hit.

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05-15-2013, 05:14 PM
  #10
sjsharklover
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I think that hit from Torres should get two games tops....With Torres reputation he could be done for the playoffs(which might only be 3 more games)
I hope Stoll is ok but I'll be honest and be pretty upset if he is in the lineup for the next two games...if it is as bad as a concussion he should be out at least two...
I really hope L A didn't keep him out to emphasize Torres hit
I'm sure that's not the case but if you have to go To those lengths that's pretty sad

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05-15-2013, 05:14 PM
  #11
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He is going to miss a game regardless since the hearing is the same day as the game.

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05-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Shero View Post
Neutral fan.

Not a suspension but he gets one because he's Torres.
This. (Sharks fan) (Torres disliker)

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05-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Krams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
clean hit. hes not gonna get suspended.
Clean hit. He's gonna get suspended.

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05-15-2013, 05:15 PM
  #14
Kreider Typical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
I love this this thread.

99% of Shark fans say no suspension
99% of Kings fans say suspension

and the argument goes on and on and on.....

Maybe we should create a poll and only allow neutral fans to vote.
kings fans call for a permaban
everyone else thinks the hit was clean


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05-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Brent Burns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
clean hit. hes not gonna get suspended.
Considering the in person hearing, it's pretty much already a one game suspension. We're just waiting to see if there is more.

Real ****** job by the NHL on this.

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05-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Here are the relevant issues from my standpoint:

1) Was the hit an illegal hit to the head? It was not penalized as such, and the majority of observers agree it was not. Those that believe it was are almost exclusively Kings fans, but many Kings fans believe it was not illegal.

2) Was it worthy of supplemental discipline? It is nearly unanimously agreed that for almost no other player would supplemental discipline be considered.

3) What effect does a player's history have on the situation? It is nearly unanimously agreed that the general legality of the hit is NOT subjective based on a player's history. It is unanimously agreed and explicitly stated by the league that the supplemental discipline a player receives is affected by his history.

The grey area here is whether a player's history should affect his threshold of supplemental discipline. To me and I would think most objective fans, the threshold should NOT be affected by a player's history.

Because supplemental discipline can heavily affect on-ice play, the threshold should be considered as objectively as possible, much as calls on the ice.

I and most objective fans have no problem with a habitual offender getting the book thrown at him if he steps over the line yet again. However as evidenced by 1 and 2, this did not happen. If no other player would be rung up for this, then Torres should not either. That is simply not a fair standard and will have a significant impact on fair competition in this series.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:16 PM
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Scottkmlps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
clean hit. hes not gonna get suspended.
So Torres and Doug Wilson are heading all the way to New York city on a game day, just to have Shanahan tell him he's not suspended?

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:16 PM
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Dominate Kesler
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A lot of double standards in the other thread. Neither of those hits by Torres or Penner were head shots. . .

I don't understand why they have to fly Torres all the way to New York just because some player may have got injured.

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05-15-2013, 05:17 PM
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I dont think it's anything more than a 2 minute penalty at max...

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05-15-2013, 05:17 PM
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sjsharklover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Here are the relevant issues from my standpoint:

1) Was the hit an illegal hit to the head? It was not penalized as such, and the majority of observers agree it was not. Those that believe it was are almost exclusively Kings fans, but many Kings fans believe it was not illegal.

2) Was it worthy of supplemental discipline? It is nearly unanimously agreed that for almost no other player would supplemental discipline be considered.

3) What effect does a player's history have on the situation? It is nearly unanimously agreed that the general legality of the hit is NOT subjective based on a player's history. It is unanimously agreed and explicitly stated by the league that the supplemental discipline a player receives is affected by his history.

The grey area here is whether a player's history should affect his threshold of supplemental discipline. To me and I would think most objective fans, the threshold should NOT be affected by a player's history.

Because supplemental discipline can heavily affect on-ice play, the threshold should be considered as objectively as possible, much as calls on the ice.

I and most objective fans have no problem with a habitual offender getting the book thrown at him if he steps over the line yet again. However as evidenced by 1 and 2, this did not happen. If no other player would be rung up for this, then Torres should not either. That is simply not a fair standard and will have a significant impact on fair competition in this series.
Thank you Juantimer
LA fans would agree if it was there player up for suspension

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05-15-2013, 05:18 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
A lot of double standards in the other thread. Neither of those hits by Torres or Penner were head shots. . .

I don't understand why they have to fly Torres all the way to New York just because some player may have got injured.
Because there was contact with the head, thats why he has to go to New York.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:18 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
kings fans call for a permaban
everyone else thinks the hit was clean

The majority of us don't want a permaban. However, I would think a 3 gamer would be appropriate. But yeah this whole conversation has turned into garbage, i'm going back to the dance off thread.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:18 PM
  #23
SJGoalie32
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Originally Posted by UnrefinedCrude View Post
The price you pay for continually crossing the line for several years, is that you no longer get benefit of the doubt for anything. If you are known as a head hunter, and you it someone's head, then there is no reasonable case to be made that it was accidental.

In a lot of hits like these punishment is minimal because it is assumed that players aren't trying to injure each other. Even reviewing the play doesn't get you inside players' heads. Benefit of the doubt is given by default.
+1

When a guy who drives into a telephone pole once it's an accident.

When a guy drives into a telephone pole 4 times in the span of 18 months, he's careless, reckless, and doesn't belong on the road.

Reckless people are infinitely more dangerous than those who just make occasional mistakes.

Maybe this time Torres didn't hit the telephone pole quite as hard as he did the other three times, but it's still a sign of reckless behavior. You can treat a one-time incident as being an accident if you are pretty certain it won't happen again. If you don't reprimand this incident, it's a pretty sure bet it WILL happen again, and soon.

This hit was delivered because Torres seems to think that its still okay to play recklessly. He still seems to think that delivering a hard hit in that situation is still more important than ensuring that he can do it cleanly and legally. If he isn't punished for this hit on Stoll, it will just re-inforce that notion in his head that he does not have to factor legality or player safety into his decision of whether or not to deliver a hit.

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05-15-2013, 05:18 PM
  #24
kingsfan28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couturefan39 View Post
Torres is going to get suspended but Penner is not going to get ****.

I hate the Kings and their Pixie Dust.
Because Penners hit was clean, there was no penalty and no injury. Torres made contact with Stolls head, there was a penalty, and he never returned.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:19 PM
  #25
The Big Giant Head
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Originally Posted by couturefan39 View Post
As was Torres shoulder to shoulder hit on Stoll.

Pixie dust.
obviously not...your guys the one flying to NY right now.

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