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The Joe Flacco appreciation thread

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:45 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Oh, well clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. So that makes one of us.
Says the guy who got every prediction wrong the entire playoffs and leading up to them.

You see how ridiculous it sounds when you write off players with generalizations? Learn from it.

How many playoff games has Newton won?

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02-06-2013, 03:23 AM
  #152
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Good QB with an IQ of a potato. He's dumber than a box of rocks.

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02-06-2013, 10:53 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Says the guy who got every prediction wrong the entire playoffs and leading up to them.

You see how ridiculous it sounds when you write off players with generalizations? Learn from it.

How many playoff games has Newton won?
And what generalization did I make? People say the young talent isn't there because sample size...well exactly what has Flacco done in his career to say he's more than average the majority of the time?

If you're going to troll, at least make sense when you do it. You're currently not.

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02-06-2013, 04:44 PM
  #154
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Well you heard Flacco's father, the guy is dull. Dull! Honestly, how much does this hurt him in a ranking? He is boring, and there isn't a lot flashy about him but he just ended a postseason where he had a 11-0 TD/INT ratio. Montana is the only other QB to do that in a postseason. He really came into his own and I am impressed with him. He seemed so cool and composed. I don't know how anyone can't put him in their top 10 now. He is Super Bowl MVP. That buys a lot of "benefit of the doubt". I don't know, I'll give it a shot here.

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, E. Manning, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Stafford, Flacco.

That was in random order more or less because #4-10 is an order to debate. But which QB did I not name that is right now better than Flacco? The youngsters like Newton, Kaepernick, Luck, RG3, Wilson, etc. aren't there yet. Romo, Cutler and Rivers are so unpredictable I wouldn't bet on them with someone else's money. Seriously, we are debating whether or not the Super Bowl MVP belongs among the 10 best QBs? We shouldn't, unless you changed the channel on the Ravens games the past couple years.

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02-06-2013, 06:03 PM
  #155
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How are Newton, Wilson and RG3 not better than Flacco? They've already posted better seasons than Flacco ever has.

I've never seen a player get more overrated based on four games than Flacco has been.

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02-06-2013, 06:39 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
How are Newton, Wilson and RG3 not better than Flacco? They've already posted better seasons than Flacco ever has.

I've never seen a player get more overrated based on four games than Flacco has been.
For Newton to be better then Flacco he actually has to outplay Flacco as a QB

Has yet to happen ,, Flacco is light years better QB

RGIII and Wilson had great rookie years ,, Lets see them put up 3 more years of quality #1 play before declaring them better then a proven 5 yr NFL vet with SB MVP

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02-06-2013, 06:42 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
For Newton to be better then Flacco he actually has to outplay Flacco as a QB

Has yet to happen ,, Flacco is light years better QB

RGIII and Wilson had great rookie years ,, Lets see them put up 3 more years of quality #1 play before declaring them better then a proven 5 yr NFL vet with SB MVP
Newton was responsible for 35 TDs as a rookie. Joe Flacco's best is 26. Your argument is invalid.

They had great rookie years which were better than anything Flacco has done in 5. Why do we have to wait for anything? They're already better now.

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02-06-2013, 06:44 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I've never seen a player get more overrated based on four games than Flacco has been.
Yeah, you'd think the guy won a Super Bowl or something. Jeez.

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02-06-2013, 06:47 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Newton was responsible for 35 TDs as a rookie. Joe Flacco's best is 26. Your argument is invalid.
Derek Anderson threw 29 TDs one year. Tell me he's better than Joe Flacco. Please.

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02-06-2013, 06:49 PM
  #160
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Super Bowl MVP. Appreciate!

Id put him behind Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Eli, and Rivers.

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02-06-2013, 06:51 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by GirouxGiroux View Post
Derek Anderson threw 29 TDs one year. Tell me he's better than Joe Flacco. Please.
Yeah, it's not like he was responsible for 27 last year or anything, also more than Flacco.

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02-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #162
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Just because he doesn't put up fantasy stats in the regular season doesn't mean he's not elite.

Oh...and he was elite last year too. Not his fault that receivers drop wide open passes, and kickers shank gimme field goals.

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02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Yeah, it's not like he was responsible for 27 last year or anything, also more than Flacco.
You seem to have a really hard time grasping that when your team is winning, you run the ball more, especially in the red zone.

Conversely, when your team is terrible, the other team plays this thing called "prevent" D where they will give up easy passes while preventing against the big play.

How many of Stafford's and Newton's TDs have come with his team down by 28 or 21 points?

You're nicking Flacco for being on a winning team and rewarding guys for being on poor teams. You also clearly have a bias for scramblers while ignoring durability.

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02-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
^ There's not much for me to disagree in that post.

I think we agree on a lot of the major points, but just disagree on how to interpret them. Flacco isn't an elite QB, but neither is Stafford, et all. There's not that much that separates Flacco and the rest, but imo, by virtue of his playoff performances the last three seasons, in my mind, I have to vault him over those others. I take playoff games into consideration as well, since those are high pressure games, in which Flacco has been at least good in all of them except for one game. Yeah, he had a few hiccups in his first two playoffs, but I think you can attribute that to inexperience more than anything.

I said in the last page that it's fine if people think Flacco isn't a top-10 QB, but at least be consistent with criteria. Eli Manning, outside of his two SuperBowl runs, has absolutely nothing else to show for, in terms of playoffs performances wins, and yet he's on the top-10 on most lists (and on mine as well, BTW).
I think we are nearly on the same page. I don't consider Stafford elite either. I see the divide between elite and the next tier occurring after Roethlisberger. Then you have a good 10-or-so QBs who all have strong accomplishments, but also notable shortcomings. Flacco is in that group. How you rank them is pretty subjective.

To reiterate, I do think Flacco is on the rise. If he can carry the level of play over the last few games on a consistent basis, then he is absolutely in the elite ranks.

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02-06-2013, 08:24 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Yeah, it's not like he was responsible for 27 last year or anything, also more than Flacco.
Is Derek Anderson better than Joe Flacco? Simple question. Because by your logic, more TDs = better.

Also, I love how you are just baffled how people could overrate a guy after the four most important games of the season, the playoffs, yet you have no problem overrating a couple rookies after 16 regular season games. The Ravens as a team played like **** for a whole month. Nobody cares. It's the regular season.

As for overrating Flacco based on four games, what happened to all the other games? Just because popular opinion has changed doesn't mean anything. This is the same guy who led the Ravens to 4th quarter comebacks and wins three years in a row against the Steelers, twice on the road. One OT win and two game-winning TD passes with less than a minute to go in the game. Just because you didn't know that doesn't mean he suddenly became a legitimate quarterback in the past four games.

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02-06-2013, 09:51 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
You seem to have a really hard time grasping that when your team is winning, you run the ball more, especially in the red zone.

Conversely, when your team is terrible, the other team plays this thing called "prevent" D where they will give up easy passes while preventing against the big play.

How many of Stafford's and Newton's TDs have come with his team down by 28 or 21 points?

You're nicking Flacco for being on a winning team and rewarding guys for being on poor teams. You also clearly have a bias for scramblers while ignoring durability.

I have no bias for scramblers. I have a bias against people using wins as the only reason to praise certain quarterbacks. Last I checked, football is a team game. It is not Newton or Stafford's fault that their defenses or running games were terrible. The Seahawks and Redskins were not "poor" this year, yet somehow RG3 and Russell Wilson are missing from your post. I'll say it again, they've put together a more impressive 16 game season than Flacco ever has (playoffs excluded). Flacco got hot, and it resulted in a win. Let's not overrate him because of it.

If Flacco continues his trend he set in the playoffs, great. He will be elite. If he plays next season like every other regular season he's ever played, he'll be average. I'm inclined to believe the latter, considering the sample size. The Super Bowl showed me nothing. As I've said, the 49ers played their worst game of the season, AND Boldin and Jones still had to bail out Flacco a few times. No, it's not fitting it in a window when he heaves up a prayer and has to out jump a guy.

As for "running it more in the red zone", Flacco's TD passes this postseason came from 20, 18, 59, 32, 70, 5, 3, 11, 13, 1, 56. So, of his 11 TDs, 7 came from the red zone. Doesn't really seem to support that argument.

EDIT: I find it funny how offended some people get because I dare criticize the immortal Joe Flacco. I get GirouxGiroux's irrationality because he went to Delaware apparently, but come on guys. It's not like he's your brother. I'm entitled to my opinion.


Last edited by What the Faulk: 02-06-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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02-06-2013, 10:34 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I have no bias for scramblers. I have a bias against people using wins as the only reason to praise certain quarterbacks. Last I checked, football is a team game. It is not Newton or Stafford's fault that their defenses or running games were terrible. The Seahawks and Redskins were not "poor" this year, yet somehow RG3 and Russell Wilson are missing from your post. I'll say it again, they've put together a more impressive 16 game season than Flacco ever has (playoffs excluded). Flacco got hot, and it resulted in a win. Let's not overrate him because of it.

If Flacco continues his trend he set in the playoffs, great. He will be elite. If he plays next season like every other regular season he's ever played, he'll be average. I'm inclined to believe the latter, considering the sample size. The Super Bowl showed me nothing. As I've said, the 49ers played their worst game of the season, AND Boldin and Jones still had to bail out Flacco a few times. No, it's not fitting it in a window when he heaves up a prayer and has to out jump a guy.

As for "running it more in the red zone", Flacco's TD passes this postseason came from 20, 18, 59, 32, 70, 5, 3, 11, 13, 1, 56. So, of his 11 TDs, 7 came from the red zone. Doesn't really seem to support that argument.

EDIT: I find it funny how offended some people get because I dare criticize the immortal Joe Flacco. I get GirouxGiroux's irrationality because he went to Delaware apparently, but come on guys. It's not like he's your brother. I'm entitled to my opinion.
I agree.

Flacco's playoff run moved him up from middle of the pack to just outside the Top 10 in my eyes. Me and you not suddenly putting him in or just outside the Elite title somehow makes us idiots or something. But that seems to only be coming from Ravens fans and a Delaware fan, so I am sure there are no biases involved there. It's not like we're comparing him to Matt Cassel or Blaine Gabbert here.

As I said before if SF ends up winning on that final drive are we even having this conversation? I think not.

And some of these arguments are laughable. The MVP one is especially. Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton never won Super Bowl MVP's, I guess Flacco is better. Timmy Smith and Deion Branch must be better than LaDainian Tomlinson and Randy Moss too using that logic.

Flacco needs to play like he did in the last three games on an at least somewhat consistent bases before I call him elite. I'm not saying this run doesn't help him move up my rankings, it does, but I'm not ready to put him from middle of the pack to Elite based on 3-4 games like some are doing.

I had him like 16-18th before now he's probably 12th or so. He's definitely below Brady, Brees, Rodgers, The Mannings, Big Ben and Ryan. As I said before I'd have him behind Griffin, Stafford, Luck and Rivers (Rivers is trending downward though). Then I think Flacco, Cutler, Newton and Wilson are all interchangeable at that 12th spot.

If I had to break it down like BWC did I'd have:

Elite:
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Eli, Ben

Borderline Elite:

Ryan

Next Tier:
Griffin*, Luck*, Stafford, Rivers, Cutler, Flacco, Newton*, Dalton*, Wilson*, Freeman*, Romo, Schaub, Kaepernick*

Average:
Bradford*, Vick^, Weeden^, Palmer, Tannehill*, Fitzpatrick

Scrubs:
Ponder*, Sanchez^, Cassel^, Arizona^, Gabbert^, Locker*.




*Young enough to still improve/decline.
^Likely to be replaced so my ranking is moot.

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02-07-2013, 12:30 AM
  #168
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Super Bowl MVP. Appreciate!

Id put him behind Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Peyton, Eli, and Rivers.
Rivers isn't nearly in this class

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02-07-2013, 01:08 AM
  #169
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I've never been a Flacco fan but he looked damn good ever since Caldwell took over playcalling for the Ravens. If he keeps playing like he did in the playoffs, he'll be one of the better QBs in the league. I won't use the word "elite" but he'll definitely move up my list.

I also want to see how guys like RG3 and Wilson do in their second season before throwing them in the same group as other great QBs in the league. Lets see if their gimmick offense is successful next season as well.

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02-07-2013, 07:30 AM
  #170
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I've also never been a Flacco believer, despite his postseason success.

His strengths are his athleticism and that he throws perhaps the prettiest deep ball in the league (emphasis on perhaps). His drawbacks are his accuracy on short/intermediate routes and two things he's improved on recently, decision-making and, related, a predisposition to throwing a really bad pass and/or interception.

However, because he is showing improvement, I'm personally considering him in that tier of player just below elite.

Tiers (players within tiers in no particular order):

Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rogers, Roethlisberger

Eli, Ryan, Flacco, Cutler

Romo and Rivers very close to being interchanged with the batch of rookie and second-year QBs who I can't quite bring myself to add in yet.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:44 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by iRep TheWingedWheel View Post
Elite:
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Eli, Ben
How does Eli fit into this list? Eli, like Flacco, has been fairly average for the majority of the regular seasons.

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02-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #172
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How does Eli fit into this list? Eli, like Flacco, has been fairly average for the majority of the regular seasons.
Eli was tough one for me. He's probably more in the Ryan class but you can make an argument for the elite class.

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02-07-2013, 12:04 PM
  #173
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Eli was tough one for me. He's probably more in the Ryan class but you can make an argument for the elite class.
How is he even in the Ryan class? He's been decidely average in the regular season, just like Flacco

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02-07-2013, 09:34 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by iRep TheWingedWheel View Post

If I had to break it down like BWC did I'd have:

Elite:
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Eli, Ben

Borderline Elite:

Ryan

Next Tier:
Griffin*, Luck*, Stafford, Rivers, Cutler, Flacco, Newton*, Dalton*, Wilson*, Freeman*, Romo, Schaub, Kaepernick*

Average:
Bradford*, Vick^, Weeden^, Palmer, Tannehill*, Fitzpatrick

Scrubs:
Ponder*, Sanchez^, Cassel^, Arizona^, Gabbert^, Locker*.

[/SIZE]
I'd put Palmer as a scrub. And Dalton as average along with Freeman and Schaub.

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02-07-2013, 10:25 PM
  #175
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Rivers, what a joke.

Flacco is better than him by a mile, or two.

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