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Will Letang sign/be offered an 8 year contract?

View Poll Results: Will Letang sign/be offered an 8 year contract?
Yes 105 89.74%
No 12 10.26%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #151
fizban
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
There aren't 30 #1 D-men in the league. If you don't understand that, then cool.

As for who can play PP, PK and eat up 30 minutes/game. Chara, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo for sure. Karlsson is on another tier offensively. Can't fathom what he'd do here.

I'm not arguing Letang isn't worth 7 mil. But a #1 D-man who can carry a pairing, QB a PP and dominate in front of the net? Nope.
The problem is that it's stupid to say #1 D-man when we really mean superstar defenseman. We can accept that there are 30 1st line centers, but we can't accept that by definition, there are 30 #1 defensemen in the league. There are also 30 #2 defensemen and so on. What I think we should really be saying is "star", "superstar", "franchise" or using some other adjective to describe defensemen other than "#1". It really is a bad title.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:13 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizban View Post
The problem is that it's stupid to say #1 D-man when we really mean superstar defenseman. We can accept that there are 30 1st line centers, but we can't accept that by definition, there are 30 #1 defensemen in the league. There are also 30 #2 defensemen and so on. What I think we should really be saying is "star", "superstar", "franchise" or using some other adjective to describe defensemen other than "#1". It really is a bad title.
the thinkg is there arent 30 #1D in the league and there arent 30 #1 centers either so that comparison just doesnt make sense.

Also Doughty sat out to get that contract so it isn't like he gave a hometown discount. For the elite players the difference between pending RFA and UFA isn't that large these days.

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01-23-2013, 10:17 AM
  #153
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There's a difference between him being our #1 D-man and him fitting the definition of a #1 D-man. It is what it is.

He's a guy who can play 25+ minutes. His mean streak, work ethic, skating and skill allow him to play in any situation. But I'd pick 10 other D-men to QB my PP. And even more on the PK.

I see him being an ES monster who's serviceable on the PP. Id like to see what Morrow can bring there in the very near future.

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01-23-2013, 10:21 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
the thinkg is there arent 30 #1D in the league and there arent 30 #1 centers either so that comparison just doesnt make sense.

Also Doughty sat out to get that contract so it isn't like he gave a hometown discount. For the elite players the difference between pending RFA and UFA isn't that large these days.
The difference has been narrowing for sure, but there is a huge difference between pending RFA and a UFA at July 1. Ask Ryan Suter. Letang is a very different kind of defenseman, but he's not substantially better or worse on balance than Suter is. Now I know that's probably not the conventional wisdom here because Suter just got paid huge bucks and he's a good defenseman, but he's pretty overrated.

Well there are 30 top lines and 30 top defensemen and there are 30 starting goaltenders, so yeah by definition there are 30 #1's at each position. This is literally the only thing that actually does make rational sense, so any deviation from that is by definition, illogical.

We need to move away from the historically accepted nomenclature for that very reason.

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01-23-2013, 10:22 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
There's a difference between him being our #1 D-man and him fitting the definition of a #1 D-man. It is what it is.
And therein lies the problem and is 100% of the reason why we should stop referring to them as "#1" D-men.

edit: This is the reason why we see arguments that amount to us chasing our own tails when it comes to arguments about #1 defensemen. If we just stop the nonsense of referring to them as such, a lot of the confusion and arguments go away.

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01-23-2013, 10:45 AM
  #156
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Every dollar under 7M is a win for Shero, IMO.

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01-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
There aren't 30 #1 D-men in the league. If you don't understand that, then cool.

As for who can play PP, PK and eat up 30 minutes/game. Chara, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo for sure. Karlsson is on another tier offensively. Can't fathom what he'd do here.

I'm not arguing Letang isn't worth 7 mil. But a #1 D-man who can carry a pairing, QB a PP and dominate in front of the net? Nope.
Letang has been a more productive PP player than Chara in spite of the two playing on similarly productive teams. There's really not much more to say to debunk the PP myth than that.

People propagate this because they like how Chara gets his points better. Chicks dig the long ball, and the big slapper, evidently. Frustrating to see this PP nonsense get trotted out again and again.

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01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizban View Post
The difference has been narrowing for sure, but there is a huge difference between pending RFA and a UFA at July 1. Ask Ryan Suter. Letang is a very different kind of defenseman, but he's not substantially better or worse on balance than Suter is. Now I know that's probably not the conventional wisdom here because Suter just got paid huge bucks and he's a good defenseman, but he's pretty overrated.
So true. I don't see why people put Suter on a different tier...any defensive advantage he has is made up for by Letang's offense.

Grass is always greener, I guess.

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01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So true. I don't see why people put Suter on a different tier...any defensive advantage he has is made up for by Letang's offense.

Grass is always greener, I guess.
Suter benefits from quite a few things, I think. His pairing partner was Weber for how many years? Both are great defensemen and the pairing was one of the best there is while it was around. That pairing was together for so long that it was better than the sum of its parts. Both got paid out the ass and both genuinely are really good defensemen that are deserving of quite a bit of praise. Unfortunately that doesn't mean that Suter is one of the top 3 defensemen in the league, even if he is paid like one. I don't mean to be down on Suter either. I just don't think that the "super" in "superstar" belongs there for Suter. It's going to probably take 3 or 4 years for people to realize that.

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01-23-2013, 04:36 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So true. I don't see why people put Suter on a different tier...any defensive advantage he has is made up for by Letang's offense.

Grass is always greener, I guess.
It's like somebody arguing that Mikko Koivu is worth more than Malkin because he's a guy that you would want on your top PK / PP unit and your first line.

There are two, maybe three defenseman in the league who are definitely better players than Letang. That means he'll more than likely be getting top 5 money, or something close. People need to accept that instead of putting unrealistic expectations on Shero.

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01-23-2013, 04:43 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
It's like somebody arguing that Mikko Koivu is worth more than Malkin because he's a guy that you would want on your top PK / PP unit and your first line.

There are two, maybe three defenseman in the league who are definitely better players than Letang. That means he'll more than likely be getting top 5 money, or something close. People need to accept that instead of putting unrealistic expectations on Shero.
... and Letang. We can't expect every player to be willing to take a huge discount.

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01-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
It's like somebody arguing that Mikko Koivu is worth more than Malkin because he's a guy that you would want on your top PK / PP unit and your first line.

There are two, maybe three defenseman in the league who are definitely better players than Letang. That means he'll more than likely be getting top 5 money, or something close. People need to accept that instead of putting unrealistic expectations on Shero.
Good analogy. Pretty fitting.

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Old
01-24-2013, 02:03 AM
  #163
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Good analogy indeed, Rowdy (how could I argue with a guy who has arguably our best prospect in his avatar )


But seriously, yeah: count me firmly on the "Letang being one of the best defensemen in the league, period." side of the fence on this one. I do think he'll take a bit less to stay in Pittsburgh than if he was signing in, say, a Canadian market (higher taxes) or *****-house, non-playoff team somewhere, but to expect that he would take Keith-Seabrooke money when he is better than both of them (or at least as good as Keith was when he won his Norris, which is a level Keith hasn't quite been back to since) is absurd, and even moreso when you consider it was a few years ago that they signed those deals, and salaries and the cap are going up every year.


By all signs, unless there's something we don't know about Kris, Letang seems like a great guy and I don't expect him to take the position of holding Shero's ass to the fire to max out every last dollar. I think he'll sign a 7 or 8 year deal in the range of 6.5 on the low end to 7 million on the more realisitic end. And if it's half a milion more (at $7.5 mil), I'm not going to lose sleep over it; and as Ragamuffin said: "Every dollar under 7M is a win for Shero".


Anyone who thinks Letang is worth less than $6.5-$7million either doesn't know anything about hockey, have common sense, or hasn't been watching this guy closely enough this season and last (he would have won the Norris last year had he played 82 games, IMO, and this is not me being a homer). There's a reason why the top hockey guys like Dreger/McKenzie/LeBrun and others ALL project this guy to be part of Canada's next Olympic team, talk about him as a present and/or future Norris candidate, and count him among the very elite (i.e. top 5 or 10) Dmen in the league.

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