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Envy and ignorance of Canadiens haters.

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Old
03-05-2005, 10:46 PM
  #26
Chet-Nick
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They went through this phase before (mid-90's) when they dumped Gartner, Andreychuk, Murphy, Ridley, Gagner, Gilmour and Muller in a short span of time for almost nothing. Hey, not my team. Not my problem.

I think it will be amusing when the H.M.S. Maple Leaf begins having leaks here, there and everywhere. Then we'll see what damage control Ferguson establishes in a short period of time. He'll have the financial means to do so. But, the CBA should enable more teams to compete for (or retain) free agents and/or high profile players at the trade deadline.

Canadiens fans in the Toronto area, like myself, enjoy blasting the Leafs (and their annoying fans) because we live in their region. Upon saying that, I place more emphasis when Montreal plays (and hopefully wins) against Ottawa, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Vancouver, Detroit, New Jersey and Boston rather than Toronto. Because I have more respect for those clubs.

I love it when Leaf fans say to me, "we beat you" or "we finished higher in the standings." That makes me reply with, "thanks for the complement and placing the Habs on a pedestal." They always like to compare themselves to Montreal. Inferiorty complex? Could be? Comparing their beloved Leafs with the aforementioned clubs should be their top priority.

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03-05-2005, 11:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
Agreed though, nice history on the cultural draft. It was still unfair, no matter how you slice it.
Not to pick on anyone but the Leafs had the exact same benefits but obviously weren't as successful as the habs. Here's a blurb taken from proicehockey.about.com:

"I have been told that the Montreal Canadiens benefited in the '50s from the fact that they had exclusive rights over players from Quebec. Is this true? Did other teams benefit from the same protection (did the Leafs have rights over Ontario players)?
- Eric Gillman, Toronto, On

Prior to the 1960s, there was no amateur draft. The recruitment of NHL players was simply a matter of first come, first served. The Montreal Canadiens ensured they were first served by establishing perhaps the greatest farm system in sports history, with junior and senior teams on the prairies, minor pro teams in the U.S. and entire leagues in Quebec. The Leafs operated a similar network in Ontario and beyond.

The Leafs and Canadiens held a further advantage as well. Each NHL franchise had exclusive rights to players within its 50-mile territorial limits. So the Leafs and Canadiens could browse the neighbourhood rinks near Toronto and Montreal at their leisure, while the Rangers had a lock on the next great goalie from Hoboken.

Most of these advantages disappeared in 1963 with the introduction of the amateur draft. But the Leafs and Canadiens continued to benefit from players developed under the old system well into the 1970s."

So as this points out teams had a 50 mile "exclusivity" radius about there cities and TO and MTL both had farm teams. The habs simply had more success finding and drafting players, because as it says it was first come, first served and all the other teams could have gotten some of the habs greats if they'd been quicker on the ball. Also it points out that the draft began in '63 so then no one had exclusivity any longer.

PS. To have a media writer from TO being so objective without whining about all our cup wins and the unfairness of the hockey universe is stunning. :lol

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03-05-2005, 11:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hab at it
Not to pick on anyone but the Leafs had the exact same benefits but obviously weren't as successful as the habs. Here's a blurb taken from proicehockey.about.com:

"I have been told that the Montreal Canadiens benefited in the '50s from the fact that they had exclusive rights over players from Quebec. Is this true? Did other teams benefit from the same protection (did the Leafs have rights over Ontario players)?
- Eric Gillman, Toronto, On

Prior to the 1960s, there was no amateur draft. The recruitment of NHL players was simply a matter of first come, first served. The Montreal Canadiens ensured they were first served by establishing perhaps the greatest farm system in sports history, with junior and senior teams on the prairies, minor pro teams in the U.S. and entire leagues in Quebec. The Leafs operated a similar network in Ontario and beyond.

The Leafs and Canadiens held a further advantage as well. Each NHL franchise had exclusive rights to players within its 50-mile territorial limits. So the Leafs and Canadiens could browse the neighbourhood rinks near Toronto and Montreal at their leisure, while the Rangers had a lock on the next great goalie from Hoboken.

Most of these advantages disappeared in 1963 with the introduction of the amateur draft. But the Leafs and Canadiens continued to benefit from players developed under the old system well into the 1970s."

So as this points out teams had a 50 mile "exclusivity" radius about there cities and TO and MTL both had farm teams. The habs simply had more success finding and drafting players, because as it says it was first come, first served and all the other teams could have gotten some of the habs greats if they'd been quicker on the ball. Also it points out that the draft began in '63 so then no one had exclusivity any longer.

PS. To have a media writer from TO being so objective without whining about all our cup wins and the unfairness of the hockey universe is stunning. :lol
Interesting, I had not heard of this 50 mile radius thing ever. I think many have not. Thank you for bringing this information to light. However does the point still stand that the Cultural draft was something ONLY the Habs had?

To be fair, I don't think anyone ever whines about all of your (the Habs) Cups. Personally, I think it's an outstanding history, and something to be very proud of. My dislike for the Habs has nothing to do with the ammount of Cups they've won, just like your dislike for the Leafs has nothing to do with our Cups (at least I don't believe it does). We are the greatest rivalry hockey has ever seen, with two of the greatest histories as well. My dislike was bred into me (thankfully... ) by a wonderful father who loves hockey and the Leafs, just like most of the Habs fans families have bred into them the hatred of the Leafs. It's a love hate relationship, we love to hate each other.

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03-05-2005, 11:31 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet-Nick
They went through this phase before (mid-90's) when they dumped Gartner, Andreychuk, Murphy, Ridley, Gagner, Gilmour and Muller in a short span of time for almost nothing. Hey, not my team. Not my problem.

I think it will be amusing when the H.M.S. Maple Leaf begins having leaks here, there and everywhere. Then we'll see what damage control Ferguson establishes in a short period of time. He'll have the financial means to do so. But, the CBA should enable more teams to compete for (or retain) free agents and/or high profile players at the trade deadline.

Canadiens fans in the Toronto area, like myself, enjoy blasting the Leafs (and their annoying fans) because we live in their region. Upon saying that, I place more emphasis when Montreal plays (and hopefully wins) against Ottawa, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Vancouver, Detroit, New Jersey and Boston rather than Toronto. Because I have more respect for those clubs.

I love it when Leaf fans say to me, "we beat you" or "we finished higher in the standings." That makes me reply with, "thanks for the complement and placing the Habs on a pedestal." They always like to compare themselves to Montreal. Inferiorty complex? Could be? Comparing their beloved Leafs with the aforementioned clubs should be their top priority.
I don't take any higher pride out of the Leafs beating the Habs these days. A win is a win, until the playoffs. Once we meet there again, then maybe some pride should be taken from a win, but until then, a win is just a win.

As for not respecting the Leafs, that's fine, it's your God given right. I respect the Habs as a whole, but that doesn't change the fact I like to see them knocked around as much as I like to see the Bruins, or any other team. (to be honest, I think I enjoy seeing Detroit lose the most these days...)

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03-05-2005, 11:34 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AH
pros? THN? You mean the list they produced with only 16 clubs returning their calls? All the guy said was that the Habs are on the rise. Not anywhere did he say anything about prospects. If you can deny that the Habs are only getting better, then be my guest and prove it. You Leaf fans sure are OBSESSED with the Habs farm system. Your penis envy getting of you? You guys talk about it even when its not mentioned anywhere.

Fact of the matter is, the Habs have plenty of depth on the farm to ice a very competitive team, added on to an already young core at the NHL level.
16 NHL scouts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever number of guys/gals hockey's future had sitting in their parent's basement in their underwear compiling the HF list.

The only reason Habs fans like it is because the bias shone through and the Habs got unfairly graded. Like it or not, their prospects have been fading stars since draft day. They have greatly fallen in the eyes of those who are paid to have knowledge on what it takes to make it in pro hockey, those that THN consults.

I'm also surprised at your "plenty of depth on the farm to ice a competitive team" seeing as how, even with help from the Dallas Stars, The Bulldogs can't seem to perform on the ice.....

EDIT: http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/standings.html


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03-06-2005, 12:01 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Only on fan based prospects lists are the Habs fortunes on the rise. The pros see it differently.

Well, I'll respond to you first and then the Bruins fan.. who has a very nice avatar pic!

Right, what I mean is that the team is sailing in the right direction and it's really starting to show. Bob Gainey is onboard, the GM we've needed for far too long. With him is Claude Julien, a great coach with a winning record in the minors and what looks to be a continuation of that in the big league. Then, look at the players Montreal has been bringing in recently; Alexi Kovalev who, love him or hate him, is a world class talent. Radek Bonk who I believe will make a huge differance to this team - the type of player that would react well to a change of scenery. Then, there's Koivu who I admit, is often injured, but is also a huge asset to this team and the kind of player/attitude/leader any of the other 29 teams in the NHL could use. Richard Zednik also fits that bill. Then there's the youth of the team; Ribeiro and Ryder had breakthrough seasons, Komisarek is moving into his projected profile, and we have a truckload of talented kids looking to make the team. Granted, we are missing a top D-man to go with Souray but.. that's the next step! See what I mean?

Ok, Boston.. we've always had your number! Even when you deliver serious injuries to our players.. we still send you to the links. The odds are always in your favor but we prevail anyway. Nothing else to say about that.

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03-06-2005, 12:07 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Habs13
Well, I'll respond to you first and then the Bruins fan.. who has a very nice avatar pic!

Right, what I mean is that the team is sailing in the right direction and it's really starting to show. Bob Gainey is onboard, the GM we've needed for far too long. With him is Claude Julien, a great coach with a winning record in the minors and what looks to be a continuation of that in the big league. Then, look at the players Montreal has been bringing in recently; Alexi Kovalev who, love him or hate him, is a world class talent. Radek Bonk who I believe will make a huge differance to this team - the type of player that would react well to a change of scenery. Then, there's Koivu who I admit, is often injured, but is also a huge asset to this team and the kind of player/attitude/leader any of the other 29 teams in the NHL could use. Richard Zednik also fits that bill. Then there's the youth of the team; Ribeiro and Ryder had breakthrough seasons, Komisarek is moving into his projected profile, and we have a truckload of talented kids looking to make the team. Granted, we are missing a top D-man to go with Souray but.. that's the next step! See what I mean?
I agree with everything you said, with the exception of Bob Gainey. Look at the shambles he left in Dallas. He is a good spender, but that is not the position the Habs are in. The team, IMO had the GM they needed: Andre Savard. He has a proven track record in unearthing gems and player development. Besides Brenden Morrow, who did Dallas draft during Gainey's regime that has turned out to be an above average NHL player?

The other point I made is that despite much fanfare, more of the Habs prospects have faded and faltered than shone. Just days ago, a poster on this board wrote off the whole 2000 draft as a failure. Some of those were extremely highly touted prospects and now?

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03-06-2005, 12:17 AM
  #33
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Speaking of the four players that belong to the Dallas Stars (Daley, Ott, Ellis and Miettinen). Only Ott and Daley have brought something to the table.

Had Alexander Perezhogin kept his stick down and not been suspended for the year. Along with the reliable Francois Beauchemin being picked up on waivers by Columbus. This 2004-05 edition, of the Bulldogs, would be doing much better with them part of the squad.

Unlike St. John's, Hamilton isn't stocked with veterans/cast offs (like Ling, Druken, Leeb, Perrott, Wilm, Barrett, MacDonald, Moro, Aubin). By NO means am I suggesting everyone is a prospect in Hamilton.

In fact, Hamilton's starting goalie, Yann Danis, is a rookie. He's had a strong season (with a few ups and downs) after a solid NCAA career. A 2.45 GAA and .924 SV% are good numbers for a first year pro goalie.

Even though his stats don't reflect his importance and skill level. Andrei Kostitsyn is probably the most likely, out of all the Bulldogs, to potentially be a game breaker in the NHL one day. He turned 20 years old last week. Kostitsyn was eligible to play junior (OHL, QMJHL, WHL) in Canada this season. That's why he played with Belarus at the WJC.

Chris Higgins and Tomas Plekanec are finding their stride now after a somewhat sombre start to the season. You see NHL attributes in both of them (skill, speed and willing to sacrifice the body). Not bad for guys that are in the 5'11" range. Duncan Milroy is a decent checking forward who has the ability to create offensive chances the odd time.

Corey Locke sits sixth in rookie scoring. After winning the OHL scoring title twice. Locke has finally adapted to the bigger and quicker players of the AHL. While not a bona fide prospect for Montreal. Not big and an average skater. He would probably get better attention had he been drafted by someone else.

Jason Ward and Ron Hainsey haven't played to their expectations. They're going throught he motions on some nights. Likely thinking they would be in the NHL had there been no lockout. Mike Komisarek is back from his hip surgery.

I judge a farm club by the amount of NHLers it eventually produces. When the Bulldogs lost the 2002-03 Calder Cup final to the Houston Aeros (Minnesota's affiliate). At the time, it bothered me. Now, I see how many of those Bulldogs are in the NHL (Habs or Oilers). Hardly any (02-03) Aeros were with the Wild last year.

Hamilton trails Edmonton by five points for the final playoff spot in the North Division. Ironically, the Roadrunners are in Hamilton later today (4:00). Edmonton's starting goalie, Tyler Moss, is 29 years old and has 30 games of NHL experience.

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03-06-2005, 12:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
I agree with everything you said, with the exception of Bob Gainey. Look at the shambles he left in Dallas. He is a good spender, but that is not the position the Habs are in. The team, IMO had the GM they needed: Andre Savard. He has a proven track record in unearthing gems and player development. Besides Brenden Morrow, who did Dallas draft during Gainey's regime that has turned out to be an above average NHL player?

The other point I made is that despite much fanfare, more of the Habs prospects have faded and faltered than shone. Just days ago, a poster on this board wrote off the whole 2000 draft as a failure. Some of those were extremely highly touted prospects and now?
I looked at the Dallas drafting under Gainey and yes, it's not very stellar. That being said, I'm sure there was pressure from the owner, Tom Hicks, to win immediately. I have no data to back this up, but with Gainey on a tighter leash in Montreal, I'm sure he won't sign rediculous contracts. (Although Bonk at 3.5 was a little high for my liking.) It's true some prospects have faded (Hossa & Hainsey) but to me sometimes Habs fans overrate their prospects too much. Not every first round pick is going to be a top flight player, you just have to hope they can make a contribution.

Also, André Savard still has a role on the team. He's Assistant GM. I think we are headed in the right direction. As people are pointing out, our core is stil young. We have found prospects in later rounds who could have an impact. (Or already have in the case of Markov, Ryder etc...) I think it just comes down to being realistic in your expectations.

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03-06-2005, 07:57 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
The team, IMO had the GM they needed: Andre Savard. He has a proven track record in unearthing gems and player development.
They still have him. He is the head scout. The amateur scouting is still his to over see.

Quote:
The other point I made is that despite much fanfare, more of the Habs prospects have faded and faltered than shone. Just days ago, a poster on this board wrote off the whole 2000 draft as a failure. Some of those were extremely highly touted prospects and now?
So a fan based site rates the Habs 5th and it's OVERRATED, while a fan questions the 2000 draft in a thread, and it's gospel?

Nice logic.

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03-06-2005, 08:04 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis

I'm also surprised at your "plenty of depth on the farm to ice a competitive team" seeing as how, even with help from the Dallas Stars, The Bulldogs can't seem to perform on the ice.....

EDIT: http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/standings.html
Heh.

We have an expert here who thinks the state of the farm team is a clear indication of the state of the farm system. So does that mean that the Leafs have a better farm system than the Panthers (San Antonio)? Its real easy to load up your team with AHL veterans like Ling, Druken , Barrett, and pretend to have a good farm system.

As well, its not like all the prospects play in Hamilton. Some of the top guys don't even play there. So, which guys in your estimation have "fallen" ? Besides Hainsey I can't think of another one.

The title of this thread says it all about Macappolis presence in this thread: Envy and Ignorance.


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03-06-2005, 09:09 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by AH
Heh.

We have an expert here who thinks the state of the farm team is a clear indication of the state of the farm system. So does that mean that the Leafs have a better farm system than the Panthers (San Antonio)? Its real easy to load up your team with AHL veterans like Ling, Druken , Barrett, and pretend to have a good farm system.

As well, its not like all the prospects play in Hamilton. Some of the top guys don't even play there. So, which guys in your estimation have "fallen" ? Besides Hainsey I can't think of another one.

The title of this thread says it all about Macappolis presence in this thread: Envy and Ignorance.
Oh course the American Hockey LEague has nothing to do with potential NHL ability. That's because that is where all the future superstars of the Montreal Canadiens are being revealed to be the duds that they are, yet Kyle Wellwood seems to be shining. /sarcasm off. If your prospects were coming out of nowhere and jumping to the top of your prosepct lists like Wellwood (not on the Toronto top 10 2 years ago) instead of being highly rated and dropping off the face of the earht (where art thou Marcel Hossa) then you would see it differently. It is called a bias and once you can't be unbiased, you have no true opinion that matters. Also, it is a great idea to have some veterans to mingle with the kids on the farm. It helps for them to share their experience and to have someone to room with the kids on the road to keep them out of trouble, show them the ropes, etc.


Good to see you could handle the debate without getting down to childish name calling and ridicule.... Envy and ignorance is a great description of yourself. Envy that toronto can afford to do whatever the hell they have felt like with minimal impact. Envy that Toronto has finally put it together scouting wise (a far cry when the scouting budget was a two way ticket on Greyhound that got Johnny Bower as far as Belleville!) and ignorance as far as your own prospects are performing. You want to get down to childish tacts (not surprising to me at all) Typical Habs fan who is proud of the past and sees a bright future (although that star is dimming greatly!) It is too bad you can't seem to (EVER!) put it together in the present.

Oh and I knew Savard was still with the organization. I hope for his sake that Gainey just keeps out of his way and lets him do business for the Habs sake.


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03-06-2005, 09:48 AM
  #38
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Kyle Wellwood is a hot prospect? :lol

Leaf fan's idea of prospect evaluation: Read line scores (stats) or read AHL standings, which what makes Wellwood > Higgins and Leafs system > Habs or Panthers system.

Quote:
Also, it is a great idea to have some veterans to mingle with the kids on the farm. It helps for them to share their experience and to have someone to room with the kids on the road to keep them out of trouble, show them the ropes, etc.
Gee thanks I didnt know that. This must be the first time I have heard of this. Problem with your scenario is that the Habs ELECTED not to fill Hamilton with vets this year because they had an influx of new players coming into the organization. Guys like Ribeiro and Dagenais wanted to play in Hamilton and they said NO.

Quote:
Typical Habs fan who is proud of the past and sees a bright future (although that star is dimming greatly!) It is too bad you can't seem to (EVER!) put it together in the present.
EVER? Really, considering we went the same distance as the over the hill gang last spring, then that would mean the Leafs are in the same boat. Except that in the Leafs case, NO PAST, NO PRESENT, and definitely NO FUTURE. The Leafs may have a better scouting budget but what's the point when they start trading half their picks every draft. Even this coming draft (if there is one), their 2nd and 4th rounders are ... mmmm ... missing.

What a great present your team has put together the last three years. The total number of playoff series won, in addition to what the Habs have won during that time frame, is ONE. And that "extra" round can only be described as "miraculous" (3rd round appearance vs Carolina). Some present your team has accumulated.

Typical Leaf fans response, we got more money so we can do what we want. Wait till the foregone conclusion of a salary cap comes in, what then? The only thing that money will come in handy for is to fill MLSE pockets.


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03-06-2005, 10:23 AM
  #39
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I don't think it's right of us to spend our time leaf bashing. We should be diverting our energy to the sterilization of said fans or of assuming child custody to prevent future generations from the same misguided devil worship.
I'm not sure if that's the right approach. From personal experience, I would certainly vouch for the fact that some Habs fans become Habs fans in part because their previous generations (and all known blood relations) were Leafs fans. And perhaps vice versa.

Targeting future generations like that isn't really the way to do it, IMO. And really, I don't know if there is any way... you might be thinking, like I do sometimes, that hey! we could wait a few years, launch a fake nuke armed with a specially-designed biological Leaf-fan-obliterating warhead at Rochester, wait for the Americans to shoot it down over Toronto (any collateral damage is no problem, 'cuz it's just Toronto, after all) and the problem would be solved. But practically speaking, I don't think it would help. Leaf fans are probably going to find some way of surviving, like cockroaches or something, and for every one you squash two more will spring up.

Plus, all kidding aside, they do serve a valuable role in the hockey ecology, and I think our lives would only be poorer for their absence. The more Leafs fans the better, I say. It's only too bad that they finally got some smarter ownership and management, and will probably be a competitive team for the foreseeable future. But if there's any way to set up the team for misery (like the 80's), then that would be the best solution of all. Lots of Leafs fans is good. Lots of Leafs fans supporting a miserable team is the best thing in all the world, bar none!

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03-06-2005, 10:29 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AH
Kyle Wellwood is a hot prospect? :lol
Wellwood is outperforming EVERY player in Hamilton on the scoresheet and more importantly on the ice.

Fact is, more and more the Habs prospects are faltering. The Habs should have a greater gap in prospect quality than the Leafs do, mainly because they draft higher each and every year! The REALITY (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reality -- figured you might need help with that word!) is that the gap is small or non existent. That bright future is looking quite dim, especially if the New York Yankees ever see video of Perezhogin. :lol

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03-06-2005, 10:32 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Wellwood is outperforming EVERY player in Hamilton on the scoresheet and more importantly on the ice.
Again reading line scores mean nothing. Playinng with AHL superstars Ling and Druken hels the production. How much of that is his own? Probably very little.

Quote:
Fact is, more and more the Habs prospects are faltering. The Habs should have a greater gap in prospect quality than the Leafs do, mainly because they draft higher each and every year! The REALITY (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reality -- figured you might need help with that word!) is that the gap is small or non existent. That bright future is looking quite dim, especially if the New York Yankees ever see video of Perezhogin. :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Good to see you could handle the debate without getting down to childish name calling and ridicule....
heh.

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03-06-2005, 11:24 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Good to see you could handle the debate without getting down to childish name calling and ridicule.... Envy and ignorance is a great description of yourself. Envy that toronto can afford to do whatever the hell they have felt like with minimal impact. Envy that Toronto has finally put it together scouting wise (a far cry when the scouting budget was a two way ticket on Greyhound that got Johnny Bower as far as Belleville!)
...
It is too bad you can't seem to (EVER!) put it together in the present.
First part: The Leafs haven't put it together yet. Well, we don't know that yet. They've certainly taken steps in the right directionm but we need to see some results before we know that they have actually done it. Just spending the money isn't a guarantee of results.

Second part: haha. Seriously, that's just trolling. Walk into a board of the most storied and succesful franchise in the histroy of the game, and say they've never had it together. Ever. Like wow. Maybe I should give you a dictionary link to ever?

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03-06-2005, 11:47 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis

Fact is, more and more the Habs prospects are faltering.
''fact is'' more and more are faltering ? what the hell are you talking about ? Must be Higgins' 33 points in his last 39 games (or 1 PPG pace in his last 15-20 games). Or Perezhogin producing at a pace that would put him in the top 10 of RSL scoring if he had played a few more games? along with names like Frolov, Kovalchuk and Zherdev. No wait, it has to be Tomas Plekanec's putting together another very solid season in the AHL. Yeah, they are sure faltering! Or Kostitsyn who has improved his defensive game by a lot and producing at a very good rate since returning from the WJC playing on a 3rd line. Not too mention Corey Locke putting up strong numbers for a rookie playing on the 4th line, Yann Danis becoming one of the better goalies in the AHL, Kyle ''limited offensive upside'' Chipchura putting up better than 1 point per game numbers on a poor team with a mediocre offence in a strong WHL before getting injured, etc Yeah, a ton of prospects faltering for sure.

The only ones who have really ''faltered'' are Hainsey and Hossa really and they still have a chance to be NHLers. The rest of the crop is doing very well or are too young to say they have ''faltered'' yet.

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Old
03-06-2005, 11:59 AM
  #44
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Wow, Habs fans complain about being hated on, while in the same thread, they are laughing at Kyle Wellwood, a prospect who is having a great year. Hypocrites. (Just kidding)

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03-06-2005, 12:15 PM
  #45
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Ignorance is bliss when Leaf fans critique prospects. Especially those in other systems. "Mayor of MacAppolis" seems to think Montreal's youngsters are "faltering." I'd like for him to give an informative and objective conclusion as to why? Has he ever seen any of them perform on a regular basis?

You hit the nail right on the head, "AH." Some people (e.g. Mayor of MacAppolis) are making their assessment soley on statistics. Being that he considers THN's Future Watch issue more accurate this year. I haven't really noticed any complaints - from him - about Wellwood being ranked 7th amongst Leaf prospects. Yet, their organizational ranking is 24th. Not very complementary.

Binghamton's Brendon Bochenski is leading all AHL rookies in scoring (51 pts.). Despite this, he's not held in high esteem. Why? Weak skater. You can get away with it in the AHL. Very few have flourished in the NHL. Which also explains being drafted 223rd overall (2001). If you're curious, Future Watch has him slotted 7th on Ottawa's prospect list.

I agree with you AH, playing alongside veterans can enhance/infalte your personal statistics. As in the case with Wellwood. As for Perezhogin, he played for the Russian national team at a recent international tournament in Sweden. Even with Avangard Omsk, Perezhogin isn't on the top line. Which makes his numbers in 39 games (12-16-28) look mighty good under those circumstances. That, in a league, that has few players that average a point per game.

Getting excited over Wellwood would be like a Canadiens fan hyping Corey Locke. Big deal. Two small guys that have average speed - at best. There's an abundance of those type of players in the AHL. Leaf fans should learn from experience ... Bruce Boudreau. Too good for the AHL. Not good enough for duty in the NHL.

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03-06-2005, 12:54 PM
  #46
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I am not basing ANYTHING on stats. I am basing it on the realistic opinions of those who are paid for their knowledge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky

Second part: haha. Seriously, that's just trolling. Walk into a board of the most storied and succesful franchise in the histroy of the game, and say they've never had it together. Ever. Like wow. Maybe I should give you a dictionary link to ever?
You gotta be kidding! This is the board of one of the better hockey message boards. It is a forum for discussions on the Montreal Canadiens. It has no direct connection to the Montreal Canadiens. What you call trolling is in reality having a pleasant debate. Jusdt because some are out of ammunition and getting their ***** seriously kicked, they are resorting to childish tactics. (definition in one of my posts above for the benefit of the many here who are quite far removed from it) I never said the Habs have never had it together I said they can't ever seem to get it together (as in the present (5 year period) tense).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
''fact is'' more and more are faltering ? what the hell are you talking about ? Must be Higgins' 33 points in his last 39 games (or 1 PPG pace in his last 15-20 games). Or Perezhogin producing at a pace that would put him in the top 10 of RSL scoring if he had played a few more games? along with names like Frolov, Kovalchuk and Zherdev. No wait, it has to be Tomas Plekanec's putting together another very solid season in the AHL. Yeah, they are sure faltering! Or Kostitsyn who has improved his defensive game by a lot and producing at a very good rate since returning from the WJC playing on a 3rd line. Not too mention Corey Locke putting up strong numbers for a rookie playing on the 4th line, Yann Danis becoming one of the better goalies in the AHL, Kyle ''limited offensive upside'' Chipchura putting up better than 1 point per game numbers on a poor team with a mediocre offence in a strong WHL before getting injured, etc Yeah, a ton of prospects faltering for sure.

The only ones who have really ''faltered'' are Hainsey and Hossa really and they still have a chance to be NHLers. The rest of the crop is doing very well or are too young to say they have ''faltered'' yet.
You can look at it on an individual basis, but the pros that consulted THN see it differently: The organization fell from a B to a C+ grade and fell from 11th overall to 17th overall. This is with all your first round picks. Hell, the Leafs got a C rating and 24th ranking with a list with 2 first rounders (Colaiacovo and Steen) and 8 players drafted 70th or later. This is the heart of the problem. Kostitsyn has improved his defense is a great way of saying he has reallydisappointed offensively! :lol

Enby and Jealousy?": Replace that with pity!

AH nailed nothing NickChet. In fact, the only thing that was nailed was in another thread when another habs fan gave a very accurate description of AH's hockey knowledge.

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03-06-2005, 12:59 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet-Nick
Ignorance is bliss
This should be the Habs fan creed. They should put this in the description of the board, along with the sign from outside the Old Folks home on the simpsons: "Thank you for not discussing the outside world"

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03-06-2005, 01:03 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Kostitsyn has improved his defense is a great way of saying he has reallydisappointed offensively! :lol
Dude , Kostitsyn is playing on the third line.The habs management knows he can score , they just want to put him on a checking line where he can learn to play defence.He has improved in that area , they just want him to learn him how to play a decent defensive game while having a terrific offensive game.The points will come, next year.He's gonna play a bigger role for the team , many veterans will be gone plus ''BABE PEREZHOGIN'' will (likely)come here to help him.The priority know is to make sure that the kid knows how to play defence.It's hard to rack up points while playing with Gaving Morgan.

No hard feelings , you know that you're my second favourite leafs fan.You're making some good points but I didn't like this one.


Last edited by CH Wizard: 03-06-2005 at 01:30 PM.
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03-06-2005, 01:07 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great One
Dude
Please don't call me dude! You can call me sir, Mac, MacDaddy , TLC, but please not dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great One
No hard feelings ,
No hard feelings whatsoever. I am having the time of my life! This is one of the best threads/debates/discussions in a long time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great One
you know that you're my second favourite leafs fan.You're making some good points but I didn't like this one.
Second FAVOURITE! :mad: Who's number one?

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03-06-2005, 01:08 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor of MISINFORMATION
[font=Arial][size=2]I am not basing ANYTHING on stats. I am basing it on the realistic opinions of those who are paid for their knowledge!
Yeah and they rate Wellwood as the SEVENTH best propspect behind such luminaries as Kronwell. The 7th best propect in a farm system thats lacking serious depth. There must be something to it !!!

Quote:
ta be kidding! This is the board of one of the better hockey message boards. It is a forum for discussions on the Montreal Canadiens. It has no direct connection to the Montreal Canadiens. What you call trolling is in reality having a pleasant debate. Jusdt because some are out of ammunition and getting their ***** seriously kicked, they are resorting to childish tactics. (definition in one of my posts above for the benefit of the many here who are quite far removed from it) I never said the Habs have never had it together I said they can't ever seem to get it together (as in the present (5 year period) tense).
You used the term EVER. It must be the dictinary link you're using. Get a better one.

Oh boy, look who is talking about the past !!! FIVE years, long time for little boy !!! Why stop there? why not go back 8? Because it excuses the Leafs woeful teams of 97 and 98?

Nice try.

Quote:
You can look at it on an individual basis, but the pros that consulted THN see it differently: The organization fell from a B to a C+ grade and fell from 11th overall to 17th overall. This is with all your first round picks. Hell, the Leafs got a C rating and 24th ranking with a list with 2 first rounders (Colaiacovo and Steen) and 8 players drafted 70th or later. This is the heart of the problem. Kostitsyn has improved his defense is a great way of saying he has reallydisappointed offensively! :lol
Are you actually idiotic enough to think teams fall based on their draft six months ago? How ignorant are you? Those org ranking rating by the HN was for propsects 21 and younger. :lol

Quote:
Enby andd Jealousy?": Replace that with pity!
Yes, pity for your team that has cap troubles coming out of the ying yang.

Quote:
AH nailed nothing NickChet. In fact, the only thing that was nailed was in another thread when another habs fan gave a very accurate description of AH's hockey knowledge.
So some random opinion of a fan who called me a fool for saying JFJ = Rejean Houle? I think you will find many more here who think like me, and not just Habs fans.
How about you try coming up with your own arguments next time?

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