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Old
02-11-2013, 03:52 PM
  #226
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I'd be fine with a 3 year 2.5 mil contract if he keeps it up for another 10ish games. Anything more is a bit sketchy until more of the season passes, but by then he may be demanding in the 3.5+ range.

Don't want to be that guy, but Villie Leino has 9 points in his first 12 games with Red Wings too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Townsend Beasley View Post
Ive never heard rumors about hudler, but never got the specifics.

Can someone enlighten me?
I don't think anyone really hated Hudler as much as they were disappointed with him. Dude parties and goes to the bars A LOT. Some players thought he wasn't taking his play too seriously and that he could have been a lot better than he was, including Babcock, who called him out in practice often.

Plus the whole Russia thing. A classic example of a guy you'd like as a person but maybe not too much as a teammate.


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02-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Hudler's problem was that his stregths as a hockeyplayer was nothing that is missing from our team.



He is left-handed, we have them already, roster full.
He is small, our star players are small, we have to surround them with bigger players.
He is slow, those big players (we surround those smaller left-handed stars) are slow, so we have to add speed.
How many puck possession players should a puck possession team have?


The idea that the Wings don't need someone who can pass the puck is ridiculous to me.

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02-11-2013, 04:07 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
I'd be fine with a 3 year 2.5 mil contract if he keeps it up for another 10ish games. Anything more is a bit sketchy until more of the season passes, but by then he may be demanding in the 3.5+ range.

Don't want to be that guy, but Villie Leino has 9 points in his first 12 games with Red Wings too.

.
Exactly. Right now, Brunner has some goals. He has some obvious skill.

But this guy on the top line playing top line PP minutes.

I'm not ready to pull up the brinks truck.

I think the Wings would be smart to play it out and offer a one or two-year deal. If Brunner proves to be a legit top line scorer and not just a passenger, than pay the man in a year or two.

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02-11-2013, 04:09 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Brunner never earned a ****ing thing.

He was Babcock's project, plain and simple.

Leino never got this opportunity. It took Hudler years for this chance. And if Brunner was Holland's boy instead of Babcock's boy, Brunner might back in Switzerland already
Brunner came into the lineup and was buzzing all over the net instantly and creating chances. He clearly added speed to the top 6 which was needed and was creating offense from the get go.

When Hudler came back he wasnt playing with chumps, he got PP time but he was absolutely terrible out there. Brunner hasnt adjusted to the ice or the North American game and is already making a big impact. Hes earned his top line spot from his very first game.

Leino didnt get the opportunity because he was slow, Hudler didnt get the chance because he was tiny and slow and even though he wasnt getting a bunch of top 6 time he was getting PP minutes with the best players on the team. None of those guys came from Europe and looked close to what Brunner does now

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02-11-2013, 04:41 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
It's not ALL ABOUT SKATING

Brunner's skating, first of all, hasn't been that impressive. How many times have you caught yourself, going, "Wow, there's some speed." Or "Holy, guy is agile."

He hasn't shown that yet.

While there are times Hudler would make you say, "Wow, guy is slow," he had improved and he doesn't look slow, and really isn't too slow to be a winger in the NHL.

Brunner hasn't translated into a bunch of wins for us that we wouldn't have had if Hudler was in the lineup instead.

I don't want to get caught into some Eva Zero Unit nightmare thread. But who criticized Hudler's overall game are really doing to much assessing of Brunner's overall game.

Moreover, it's not about Hudler vs Brunner.

What Hudler vs Sammy?

How much better would Hudler be on a line with Flip and Datsyuk?
Hudler's skating did not improve...he was the slowest player on the team besides Holmstrom and was even slower than Dan Cleary, playing on one knee.

There is no reason to compare Hudler to Sammy since they are in completely different roles, Brunner has been playing in Hudler's spot all season down to the point spot on the PP. Comparing Hudler to Sammy is just a way to shift focus away from the fact that so far Brunner has been a better fit for the Wings than Hudler was in the same role.

The question will be whether he can keep up the pace all season, but through 25% of the season I don't know how anyone can argue he hasn't been a better fit for the top 6 than Hudler was.

And to answer your question, I don't think Hudler would be any better playing with Datsyuk and Flip than he was with Zetterberg and Flip. He would likely lead the team in even strength goals and would put up in the 50 pt range. Brunner in that very same spot is on pace to also lead the team in even strength goals but on pace for just over 60 pts. Brunner is only in his first NHL season though and in my opinion has more room to improve than Hudler.

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02-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post

Personally, I was fine with letting Hudler walk because I thought we needed an elite righthanded shot for Datsyuk and I thought one of our prospects needed to step into Hudler's role.

But we never got of those things.
Sure we did.

Brunner is a right-hand shot, and you can say what you want about the rest of his game, but he has one of the best wrist shots on this team. And he has a shoot-first mentality to boot. We addressed a very specific need. Guy is tied for 4th most goals in the league, and has the most goals scored on the Wings.

Hewhoshouldnotbenamed is a small, slow left-handed playmaker on a team full of small left-handed playmakers. We got rid of him for a fast, shoot-first, right-handed scorer. Need addressed. Argument over.

I know you don't like Brunner for whatever reason, but on paper it makes perfect sense. People might be selling whats his name short, but you're doing the same thing to Brunner.

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02-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #232
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I don't understand your discussion.

Leino is paid 6mio with the Sabres
Hudler is paid 4mio with the Flames
you get Brunner for 0,925mio/1 year. A possible contract ... later.

If Leino = Hudler = Brunner (and i say IF ! i do not want to argue further ... no enough info for that)
But 6mio > 4mio > 0,925mio !!! even if he gets a 3.5mio/year later. we are not their yet and if it happened ... it is because he is worth it. Obviously the Wings CEO thought that Hudler or Leino wheren't worth 4 or 6 mios !!

++

PS on swiss salaries ... taxes are very low ... specially in Zug. a 20% taxes is +/- what they would be taxed. So for 925000 USD, at 0,92 USD/SFR counting a 50% US tax rate and a 20% Swiss tax rate, it would be equivalent to a 531000 SFR bruto salary in Switzerland. Useless to say that Brunner is aiming at another salary.

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02-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Sure we did.

Brunner is a right-hand shot, and you can say what you want about the rest of his game, but he has one of the best wrist shots on this team. And he has a shoot-first mentality to boot. We addressed a very specific need. Guy is tied for 4th most goals in the league, and has the most goals scored on the Wings.

Hewhoshouldnotbenamed is a small, slow left-handed playmaker on a team full of small left-handed playmakers. We got rid of him for a fast, shoot-first, right-handed scorer. Need addressed. Argument over.

I know you don't like Brunner for whatever reason, but on paper it makes perfect sense. People might be selling whats his name short, but you're doing the same thing to Brunner.
While I can't complain about Brunner, he's been playing good and could have turned out far worse, but he still isn't a top RH shot I'd be looking for. Although it may be a moot point because the odds of Ken Holland aquiring someone like Getzlaf or Perry are slim to none. But to your point, for what Holland could have gotten Brunner does fill that role about as good as anyone else.

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02-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
While I can't complain about Brunner, he's been playing good and could have turned out far worse, but he still isn't a top RH shot I'd be looking for. Although it may be a moot point because the odds of Ken Holland aquiring someone like Getzlaf or Perry are slim to none. But to your point, for what Holland could have gotten Brunner does fill that role about as good as anyone else.
Yeah, I was not saying that he is an elite sniper or anything. But he definitely has one of the best wrist shots on the team, and looks to use it more than anybody. When he has the puck with space he can beat a goalie clean with a wrister without any traffic with his placement. Who else on this team does that often? Too many people on this team defer rather than shoot, especially on odd-man rushes. He is always looking to shoot and score.

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02-11-2013, 05:09 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by JPE123 View Post
Interesting, I wouldn't have thought of him as a guy with a bad temper
No bad but strong temper

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02-11-2013, 05:18 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Yeah, I was not saying that he is an elite sniper or anything. But he definitely has one of the best wrist shots on the team, and looks to use it more than anybody. When he has the puck with space he can beat a goalie clean with a wrister without any traffic with his placement. Who else on this team does that often? Too many people on this team defer rather than shoot, especially on odd-man rushes. He is always looking to shoot and score.
Srsly. People are overlooking this. He's the best shooter on the team AND the best goal scorer. He shoots often, shoots well, and hits the net. He's not a Sammy where he sends it high and wide 80% of the time. Or Franzen who lately, seems to only be capable of weak wristers or shots that deflect off a defender. No one else on this team does what he does. For now, especially for what he's being paid, that is plenty good enough for me. Frankly, I only expect him to get better. He's had ~12 games to adjust to the NHL speed, size, style, and to mesh with all his new teammates.

From his interviews, I think he's the kind of guy that's always looking to improve himself.

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02-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Srsly. People are overlooking this. He's the best shooter on the team AND the best goal scorer. He shoots often, shoots well, and hits the net. He's not a Sammy where he sends it high and wide 80% of the time. Or Franzen who lately, seems to only be capable of weak wristers or shots that deflect off a defender. No one else on this team does what he does. For now, especially for what he's being paid, that is plenty good enough for me. Frankly, I only expect him to get better. He's had ~12 games to adjust to the NHL speed, size, style, and to mesh with all his new teammates.

From his interviews, I think he's the kind of guy that's always looking to improve himself.
Bingo.

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02-11-2013, 05:55 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
He's not a Sammy where he sends it high and wide 80% of the time.
Time to kill this one legend right now.

Mikael Samuelsson has shot less wide than Datsyuk and Zetterberg during the last five seasons.

Samuelsson
2011-12, 138 shots on goal, 36 missed shots, 20.7% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 215 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 24,8% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 219 shots on goal, 77 missed shots, 26,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 257 shots on goal, 76 missed shots, 22,8% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 249 shots on goal, 64 missed shots, 20,4% of total shots wide.

Datsyuk
2011-12, 164 shots on goal, 67 missed shots, 29,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 137 shots on goal, 54 missed shots, 28,3% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 203 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 27,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 248 shots on goal, 93 missed shots, 27,3% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 264 shots on goal, 97 missed shots, 26,9% of total shots wide.

Zetterberg
2011-12, 267 shots on goal, 89 missed, 25,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 306 shots on goal, 126 missed, 29,2% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 309 shots on goal, 115 missed, 27,1% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 309 shots on goal, 100 missed, 24,4% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 358 shots on goal, 111 missed, 23.7% of total shots wide.

Damien Brunner has 54 shots on goal at this season, and has 12 missed shots. 22,2% of total shots wide. Doesn't differ at all from Samuelsson's five-season numbers.

Looks like wide-shooting-Samuelsson is a pretty pure legend.

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02-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #239
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It's gonna be a sad day when Sammy finally returns to the team.

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02-11-2013, 06:21 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Time to kill this one legend right now.

Mikael Samuelsson has shot less wide than Datsyuk and Zetterberg during the last five seasons.

Samuelsson
2011-12, 138 shots on goal, 36 missed shots, 20.7% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 215 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 24,8% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 219 shots on goal, 77 missed shots, 26,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 257 shots on goal, 76 missed shots, 22,8% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 249 shots on goal, 64 missed shots, 20,4% of total shots wide.

Datsyuk
2011-12, 164 shots on goal, 67 missed shots, 29,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 137 shots on goal, 54 missed shots, 28,3% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 203 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 27,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 248 shots on goal, 93 missed shots, 27,3% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 264 shots on goal, 97 missed shots, 26,9% of total shots wide.

Zetterberg
2011-12, 267 shots on goal, 89 missed, 25,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 306 shots on goal, 126 missed, 29,2% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 309 shots on goal, 115 missed, 27,1% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 309 shots on goal, 100 missed, 24,4% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 358 shots on goal, 111 missed, 23.7% of total shots wide.

Damien Brunner has 54 shots on goal at this season, and has 12 missed shots. 22,2% of total shots wide. Doesn't differ at all from Samuelsson's five-season numbers.

Looks like wide-shooting-Samuelsson is a pretty pure legend.
Yeah, Samuelsson is more like a shoot it weakly right into the goalies chest kinda guy.

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02-11-2013, 06:48 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Time to kill this one legend right now.

Mikael Samuelsson has shot less wide than Datsyuk and Zetterberg during the last five seasons.

Samuelsson
2011-12, 138 shots on goal, 36 missed shots, 20.7% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 215 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 24,8% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 219 shots on goal, 77 missed shots, 26,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 257 shots on goal, 76 missed shots, 22,8% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 249 shots on goal, 64 missed shots, 20,4% of total shots wide.

Datsyuk
2011-12, 164 shots on goal, 67 missed shots, 29,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 137 shots on goal, 54 missed shots, 28,3% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 203 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 27,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 248 shots on goal, 93 missed shots, 27,3% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 264 shots on goal, 97 missed shots, 26,9% of total shots wide.

Zetterberg
2011-12, 267 shots on goal, 89 missed, 25,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 306 shots on goal, 126 missed, 29,2% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 309 shots on goal, 115 missed, 27,1% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 309 shots on goal, 100 missed, 24,4% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 358 shots on goal, 111 missed, 23.7% of total shots wide.

Damien Brunner has 54 shots on goal at this season, and has 12 missed shots. 22,2% of total shots wide. Doesn't differ at all from Samuelsson's five-season numbers.

Looks like wide-shooting-Samuelsson is a pretty pure legend.
Sammy shooting wide really hit a nerve, eh?

Nice stats and all, but in a big moment when Sammy or J-Will would wind up for a slapper (getting the "he's got a heavy, heavy shot" line from Ken Daniels every time, which made me laugh every time ), Wings fans knew that puck was going well over the crossbar and probably one pane of glass or two wide either way.

Any way you can narrow your shot stat above down to slap shots? In Sammy's case, I'd venture that the vast majority of his missed shots were slap shots going wide (which is why I hated him on the point for the PP). He seemed to be a goalie logo-hunter with his wrister, which at least put them on goal.

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02-11-2013, 06:56 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Time to kill this one legend right now.

Mikael Samuelsson has shot less wide than Datsyuk and Zetterberg during the last five seasons.

Samuelsson
2011-12, 138 shots on goal, 36 missed shots, 20.7% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 215 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 24,8% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 219 shots on goal, 77 missed shots, 26,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 257 shots on goal, 76 missed shots, 22,8% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 249 shots on goal, 64 missed shots, 20,4% of total shots wide.

Datsyuk
2011-12, 164 shots on goal, 67 missed shots, 29,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 137 shots on goal, 54 missed shots, 28,3% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 203 shots on goal, 71 missed shots, 27,0% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 248 shots on goal, 93 missed shots, 27,3% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 264 shots on goal, 97 missed shots, 26,9% of total shots wide.

Zetterberg
2011-12, 267 shots on goal, 89 missed, 25,0% of total shots wide.
2010-11, 306 shots on goal, 126 missed, 29,2% of total shots wide.
2009-10, 309 shots on goal, 115 missed, 27,1% of total shots wide.
2008-09, 309 shots on goal, 100 missed, 24,4% of total shots wide.
2007-08, 358 shots on goal, 111 missed, 23.7% of total shots wide.

Damien Brunner has 54 shots on goal at this season, and has 12 missed shots. 22,2% of total shots wide. Doesn't differ at all from Samuelsson's five-season numbers.

Looks like wide-shooting-Samuelsson is a pretty pure legend.
That's odd. Where'd you pull those stats? Do they account for when shots are deflected and end up going wide as a result?

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02-11-2013, 07:57 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by ThankYouBasedGod View Post
Yeah, Samuelsson is more like a shoot it weakly right into the goalies chest kinda guy.
That's what we are talking about.

Those stats are from NHL.com.

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02-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #244
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That's what we are talking about.

Those stats are from NHL.com.
Why did you have to bring facts into this? Amateur!

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02-11-2013, 08:08 PM
  #245
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I looked at this years goal stats and NHL.com has Brunner listed under centers and Z as a LW

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02-11-2013, 08:33 PM
  #246
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ITT: Captain Bob tries to rationalize how unimpressive the Wings' leading goal scorer is.

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02-11-2013, 09:36 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
That's what we are talking about.

Those stats are from NHL.com.
Just hope he once in a while shoots it past the goalie too. Brunner is pretty much replacing Hudler's goals and a 15-20 goal scoring plugger on top of that could do wonders to our secondary scoring.

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02-12-2013, 01:04 AM
  #248
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Just a fun fact to lighten up the mood....I was playing NHL 13 last night n noticed EA Sports has him rated as a 60 overall. Making him the worst player on the roster. He is still on the 1st line with Z and he is rated so poorly I had to scratch him and dress Tatar.

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02-12-2013, 01:46 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
ITT: Captain Bob tries to rationalize how unimpressive the Wings' leading goal scorer is.
Here's another example of a post that doesn't address posts, but the poster.

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02-12-2013, 03:54 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
Just a fun fact to lighten up the mood....I was playing NHL 13 last night n noticed EA Sports has him rated as a 60 overall. Making him the worst player on the roster. He is still on the 1st line with Z and he is rated so poorly I had to scratch him and dress Tatar.
I traded for him without looking up the attributes: the frustration after realizing that he is rated so low, that even the AHL coaches wont put him in any lineup, was quite ridicoulous

On a more serious note: he isnt eligible anymore, but actually would be competing for the rookie scoring crown, just between Tarasenko and Yakupov atm. Obviously they are a different calibre, but that's not too shabby for someone who's never played on the small ice before, playing on an ELC.
The earlier you'll sign him, the cheaper you'll get him. We swiss might be more than a little biased (first forward that actually has some success in the NHL), but he's improved quite a lot over the last 2 years playing in Switzerland. I dont see why he can't do the same over the next 2 while getting comfortable with the smaller ice and better opposition.

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