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Old
02-25-2013, 09:50 AM
  #326
ricky0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Filling out your twelve forwards with six rookies seems like a recipe for disaster.
sure

but that's just yet another reason it's downright crazy not to have Nyquist playing in the NHL this year

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02-25-2013, 09:53 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
First multi-point game. Congratulations!

2+2, 5 shots on goal. Just like at Swiss league.

It's easy when you are goooood.

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Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
Sign him and keep him. He's a STAR!
He has surprised everybody. If he can keep it up, he is a real star.
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i like PP better when brunner is low and zetterberg on the point.
+1
I think we badly need a righthanded player down low and he is great at finding pucks around the net.
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Brunner is good. But i think Tatar is already a better player -- offensively, defensively and along the boards.

I wouldn't mind locking him up and then trading him when his value is highest.
I do not think Tatar is better. Brunner is at the moment one of the best goalscorers in the league. He is tied for 1st in the league for ES goals, he is tied for 7th in goals scored and he leads the team in goals.
I would not trade him. I think he has that what is the most important for a goalscorer and that is he is in the right places and the puck follows him.
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i think that is probably right, but it is too early to be sure.
At this point I think it is wrong to compare the 2, cause Brunner has been plain unbelievable.
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Tatar is definitely better defensively and along the boards, but offensively I think they are a wash.

Tatar is more gifted with the puck and passes better, but I don't think his shot is as accurate or as hard. I think Tatar is more agile, but doesn't have Brunner's straight ahead speed either.

Honestly I think the 2 of them would probably develop some good chemistry together, and its a line combination I wouldn't mind seeing at some point.
It is not a wash, Brunner is far superior at this point.

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02-25-2013, 10:14 AM
  #328
Ricelund
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Brunner's outscoring Parise.


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02-25-2013, 10:19 AM
  #329
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In an 82 game season Brunner would be on pace to score 43 Goals, the highest number of goals potted by someone who donned the Winged Wheel since Marian Hossa. Datsyuk would be on pace for his first 100 point season, Zetterberg would be on pace to push to 108 points.

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02-25-2013, 10:23 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
Brunner's outscoring Parise.

He's five times as cheap too

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02-25-2013, 10:27 AM
  #331
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Well, while Brunner has profited from Zetteberg, it's true that Z has put up some more assists and points thanks to Brunner it goes both ways.

4 points with only 15:10 TOI makes for one point every 3:48. Pretty impressive.

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02-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #332
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Brunner has a very nice one-touch pass he flashes from time to time, but sometimes he tries passes that would've worked for him in NLA but doesn't work in the NHL. With some more time I expect the decision making with the puck to be better. I think he's got more than enough passing game to create plays as is shown by his career stats, but naturally on a line with Z he's not gonna be that guy.

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02-25-2013, 10:46 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
In an 82 game season Brunner would be on pace to score 43 Goals, the highest number of goals potted by someone who donned the Winged Wheel since Marian Hossa. Datsyuk would be on pace for his first 100 point season, Zetterberg would be on pace to push to 108 points.
BETTMAN!!!




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02-25-2013, 10:55 AM
  #334
pdd
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Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
Well, while Brunner has profited from Zetteberg, it's true that Z has put up some more assists and points thanks to Brunner it goes both ways.

4 points with only 15:10 TOI makes for one point every 3:48. Pretty impressive.
I know I'll get killed for this, but... it's from the fact that now his primary triggerman can shoot. Last season, he was going to Flip first for the most part and while Flip has a decent shot he doesn't have Hudler's shot or Brunner's shot.

Also, while I'm talking Hudler... is points/TOI something that's now okay to discuss and be impressed by since Hudler's gone?

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02-25-2013, 10:59 AM
  #335
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Some good comparables with ~same level of ice-time and shooters:

Jeff Skinner CAR, 13 games, 18:49 avgIT, 57 shots, 7+7=14 points.
James Neal PIT, 19 games, 17:54 avgIT, 59 shots, 12+6=18 points.
David Clarkson NJD, 19 games, 17:32 avgIT, 72 shots, 10+7=17 points.
Daniel Briere, PHI, 16 games, 16:57 avgIT, 47 shots, 5+6=11 points.
Michael Grabner, NYI, 19 games, 16:53 avgIT, 46 shots, 7+3 = 10 points.
Patrick Marleau, SJS, 17 games, 18:34 avgIT, 56 shots, 12+6=18 points.
Marian Hossa, CHI, 18 games, 18:06 avgIT, 56 shots, 8+6=14 points.
Carl Hagelin, NYR, 17 games, 17:48 avgIT, 51 shots, 6+4=10 points.
Jeff Carter, LAK, 16 games, 18:20 avgIT, 47 shots, 9+2=11 points.
Nathan Horton, BOS, 15 games, 18:09 avgIT, 47 shots, 6+3=9 points.
Jaromir Jagr, DAL, 17 games, 18:15 avgIT, 45 shots, 5+8=13 points.
Damien Brunner, DET, 19 games, 17:05 avgIT, 66 shots, 10+6=16 points.

This group - shots/60min:

Skinner 13.98
Clarkson 12.97
Brunner 12.20
Marleau 10.65
Neal 10.41
Briere 10.40
Horton 10.36
Hossa 10.31
Hagelin 10.11
Carter 9.61
Jagr 8.70
Grabner 8.60

This group - goals/60min:

Marleau 2.28
Neal 2.12
Brunner 1.85
Carter 1.84
Clarkson 1.80
Skinner 1.72
Hossa 1.47
Horton 1.32
Grabner 1.31
Hagelin 1.19
Briere 1.11
Jagr 0.97

He is kind of fitting in the 5-6 million dollar player group (Marleau, Neal, Carter, Skinner, Hossa, Briere...)

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02-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #336
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashman View Post
Let's see Eva explain why Hudler at 4 mil is a better investment than Brunner. It would be fun.


I think Brunner is a great investment, but it's not a comparable situation. It's like asking "now explain why Stamkos is better investment than Giroux." But would you rather have spent $4.4m on Brunner and Sammy, or $5.4m on Hudler and Brunner?

Which of those situations is the better investment, both for the now and for the future?

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02-25-2013, 11:03 AM
  #337
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"i can't explain it, so why don't i ask you something completely different"

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02-25-2013, 11:04 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Brunner has a very nice one-touch pass he flashes from time to time, but sometimes he tries passes that would've worked for him in NLA but doesn't work in the NHL. With some more time I expect the decision making with the puck to be better. I think he's got more than enough passing game to create plays as is shown by his career stats, but naturally on a line with Z he's not gonna be that guy.
He's exactly what we've needed, a guy with a very good shot who will unleash it without any conscience. My only concern is with his size he may have some difficulty getting to his favorite spots on the ice but he seems to do a nice job finding those open lanes where he can get off his shot. At first I thought that second goal yesterday must have been deflected since it was from so far away. He went wide side up high and completely fooled Luongo. That was just crazy.

He's been awesome. What a pleasant surprise after Ville Leino and Fabian Brunnstrom.

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02-25-2013, 11:19 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I think Brunner is a great investment, but it's not a comparable situation. It's like asking "now explain why Stamkos is better investment than Giroux." But would you rather have spent $4.4m on Brunner and Sammy, or $5.4m on Hudler and Brunner?

Which of those situations is the better investment, both for the now and for the future?
Why does everything need to be connected or seen as a package deal?

The way I see it:
Hudler: Wanted more term than the team was comfortable with, and there are other small skilled forwards in the pipeline ready to play. Nyquist was the likely guy, but Tatar has filled that spot for now.
Brunner: Low risk high reward signing that teams make once in a while. He could've just as easily blown it, but here we are.
Sammy: Stop gap signing, both in case Brunner doesn't work out but also to get another R-shot. Two years less term than Huds filled Detrot's current re-tool better, as a youngster will soon fill that spot.

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02-25-2013, 11:28 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
Well, while Brunner has profited from Zetteberg, it's true that Z has put up some more assists and points thanks to Brunner it goes both ways.

4 points with only 15:10 TOI makes for one point every 3:48. Pretty impressive.
What is most scary, Brunner's production has come almost truly by himself. He isn't any kind of product of easy goals from Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Only his first one was an easy "empty-netter" from Datsyuk.

DET @ STL 0+0

DET @ CBJ 0+0
Clinches the game at shootout, being the only shooter to score from 4 pairs.

DET - DAL 1-2, Brunner (Datsyuk, Zetterberg)
Pavel makes a perfect criss-cross pass and Brunner has an empty net to score meanigless goal, 4 seconds before the end.

DET - MIN 1-0, Brunner (Zetterberg, Kronwall)
Zetterberg just gives the puck to Brunner at central zone, Brunner skates fast through the zone towards the goal and snipes the puck in.

DET @ CHI 1-1, Franzen (Brunner, Zetterberg)
Zetterberg passes the puck to Brunner, he shoots with a "spin slapshot", rebound bounces for Franzen and he scores.

DET - DAL 3-1, Brunner (Franzen, Zetterberg)
Mule delivers a high point shot and Brunner tips it in from the air.

DET - STL 1-0, Zetterberg (Brunner, Kronwall) PP
Nice passing, from Kronwall to Brunner to Zetterberg and Zeta bangs the one-timer in.

DET @ CBJ 2-4, Brunner (Filppula)
Filppula wins the offensive-zone faceoff and Brunner's instant one-timer goes through.

DET - CGY 0+0

DET @ STL 4-1, Brunner (Ericsson, Zetterberg)
Zetterberg wins the O-zone faceoff, Ericsson shoots the puck from the point, rebound bounces to Brunner and he scores.

DET - EDM 1-0, Datsyuk (Brunner, Zetterberg) 5-on-3 PP.
Zetterberg passes from the point to left corner for Brunner who one-time-passes it hard towards the net-front and Datsyuk puts the puck in.

DET - LAK 2-0, Brunner (Zetterberg, White)
Zetterberg gives the puck Brunner, who puts a sniping wrister in, near the post.

DET - STL 0+0

DET - ANA 2-1 Tatar (Brunner, Andersson) PP
Brunner shoots the puck from the point, Tatar gets the rebound and puts it in.

DET @ MIN 1-0 Brunner (Datsyuk, Zetterberg) PP
Datsyuk bounces the puck in front of the net to Brunner, who bounces it in with a half-bounce/half-tip-in. Maybe the luckiest bounce from him, but still it was all hand-eye there.

DET @ NSH 0+0

DET - CBJ 1+0 Brunner (unassisted)
Got a loose puck behind a goal and puts it in through a five-hole.

DET - NSH 0+0

DET - VAN 3-3 Cleary (Brunner, Zeta) PP
Zeta passes the puck to Brunner, he shoots, gets his own rebound and passes it to Cleary, who scores.

DET - VAN 5-3 Brunner (Kronwall, Zeta) PP
Zeta passes the puck to Kronwall, who shoots, Brunner gets the rebound and dekes it past the goalie.

DET - VAN 6-3 Brunner (Filppula, Ericsson)
Filppula leaves the puck to Brunner, whose weak snipe from side of the boards finds the net.

DET - VAN 8-3 Andersson (Brunner, Ericsson)
Ericsson shoots from point, Brunner gets the rebound, sets up Andersson for a one-timer with a spin-o-rama pass and Andersson shoots the puck in the net.

These situations are more of his own natural goal scoring talent, that legendary NOSE FOR THE NET. He knews where the pucks will come, rebounds. Hudler did pretty much the same at last season, but Brunner's toolbox just has more to offer. Other goals are basicly just snipes. He is really creative, breaks the status quo with his own moves. He doesn't have much of assists, but those assists that have lead to goals, have been creative plays. Just watch the videos, they are all at NHL.com. You can't be more natural goal-scorer than Brunner looks to be. He just finds the net.


Last edited by Henkka: 02-25-2013 at 11:34 AM.
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02-25-2013, 11:40 AM
  #341
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I love the consistency

10+6 in 19 games and last night was his first multi-point game

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02-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #342
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I do not think Tatar is better. Brunner is at the moment one of the best goalscorers in the league. He is tied for 1st in the league for ES goals, he is tied for 7th in goals scored and he leads the team in goals.
Well, first I'd want to see what Tatar would do with top line minutes and linemates like Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Tatar has 3 non-garbage goals and has been setting up numerous chances with his delicious saucer passes. If he had a guy like Datsyuk feeding him... man, dangerous.

To me, Tatar has been making more sound puck decisions. He's better defensively. He's got slicker hands. Shows more creativity.

Brunner has Tatar beat in two places. Speed and shot. And I'm not all that sure about the shot. Tatar hasn't shown it much.

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02-25-2013, 11:49 AM
  #343
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What's truly impressive, to me, is the kid's humility. With his success in the Swiss league, and that translating to the NHL already, it would be easy to get a big head but he seems to have handled everything on and off the ice perfectly.

When asked by a Wing's reporter after the game yesterday how he is doing so well and making the jump look so easy, Brunner simply deflected the statement by saying that "I play with good players." He's a team player through and through. Easy guy to root for, and happy to see him adjusting so quickly.

Still needs work in the defensive zone and along the boards, but overall, extremely impressive debut so far.

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02-25-2013, 11:52 AM
  #344
pdd
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Why does everything need to be connected or seen as a package deal?

The way I see it:
Hudler: Wanted more term than the team was comfortable with, and there are other small skilled forwards in the pipeline ready to play. Nyquist was the likely guy, but Tatar has filled that spot for now.
Brunner: Low risk high reward signing that teams make once in a while. He could've just as easily blown it, but here we are.
Sammy: Stop gap signing, both in case Brunner doesn't work out but also to get another R-shot. Two years less term than Huds filled Detrot's current re-tool better, as a youngster will soon fill that spot.
Okay, following your logic here:

Sammy was supposed to be in Brunner's spot if Brunner didn't work out. Cheaper and shorter term than Hudler so we could get a younger lineup.

What's wrong with having Hudler, who is younger and BETTER than Sammy, in that spot with Z, where he was last season?

If you still want to be rid of him, you can trade him and get something back in the next few years. Sammy is being talked about on here as a buyout candidate. Eaves (who may or may not return) and Brunner will be our only forwards in the 25-30 range who are signed for next season. Hudler would have made it three.

That, combined with Z, Helm, Emmerton, Abdelkader, Tootoo, and the young guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, etc. forms a pretty decent roster going forward.

I can ask it another way, of course. Are you more comfortable with Dan Cleary/Justin Abdelkader on the top line, or Jiri Hudler?

It's a moot point to argue, but anytime Hudler is even obliquely brought up in a thread nowadays I have had to defend myself against the "ha ha, Brunner's awesome" stuff, as if I was bashing Brunner (go ahead and find one instance and I'll give you $50 in real money).

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02-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #345
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Well, first I'd want to see what Tatar would do with top line minutes and linemates like Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Tatar has 3 non-garbage goals and has been setting up numerous chances with his delicious saucer passes. If he had a guy like Datsyuk feeding him... man, dangerous.

To me, Tatar has been making more sound puck decisions. He's better defensively. He's got slicker hands. Shows more creativity.

Brunner has Tatar beat in two places. Speed and shot. And I'm not all that sure about the shot. Tatar hasn't shown it much.
Tatar also seems to have a compete level that I did not give him credit for before. I honestly before was putting him in all my trade proposals cause out of all our potential prospects to pan out in the top 6 I thought he might be left out with the Nyquist, Jurcos, Jarnkrok, etc all in the system, but Tatar looks like a keeper right now and is competing crazy out there every time he is on the ice showing his desire to be an NHL player for the red wings. I will be very depressed if they send him down after this showing once bodies come back. I understanding the wings waiving Mursak, but if Tatar continues to play the way he has, I honestly don't think it sends a good message when he has played the way he has. IMO he has earned his spot to stay on the big club in these past 11 games, and as long as he keeps it up, I hope management's decision reflects that hard earned effort on his part.

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02-25-2013, 11:55 AM
  #346
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Added few guys.

Tomas Tatar, 11 games, 3+3=6 points, 20 shots, 12:01 avgIT.
Joakim Andersson, 9 games, 3+2=5 points, 14 shots, 10:13 avgIT.

This group - shots/60min:

Skinner 13.98
Clarkson 12.97
Brunner 12.20
Marleau 10.65
Neal 10.41
Briere 10.40
Horton 10.36
Hossa 10.31
Hagelin 10.11
Carter 9.61
Andersson 9.14
Tatar 9.08

Jagr 8.70
Grabner 8.60

This group - goals/60min:

Marleau 2.28
Neal 2.12
Andersson 1.96
Brunner 1.85
Carter 1.84
Clarkson 1.80
Skinner 1.72
Hossa 1.47
Tatar 1.36
Horton 1.32
Grabner 1.31
Hagelin 1.19
Briere 1.11
Jagr 0.97

Of course we need more games to even these possible statistical flukes from different competition level, but it doesn't look bad for either Tatar or Andersson.


Last edited by Henkka: 02-25-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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02-25-2013, 12:00 PM
  #347
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I can't understand the Brunner/Tatar either/or debate. I can definitely see a role for both of them with the Red Wings, now and in the future.

Brunner brings something that basically no one else on the Wings has; a right-handed scorer. And a pretty damn good one as well. Tatar is more of a two-way guy in my mind, and he has some grit which Brunner doesn't still have. Tatar's size could prevent him from becoming a top end NHL player.


Last edited by ChadS: 02-25-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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02-25-2013, 12:13 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Okay, following your logic here:

Sammy was supposed to be in Brunner's spot if Brunner didn't work out. Cheaper and shorter term than Hudler so we could get a younger lineup.

What's wrong with having Hudler, who is younger and BETTER than Sammy, in that spot with Z, where he was last season?

If you still want to be rid of him, you can trade him and get something back in the next few years. Sammy is being talked about on here as a buyout candidate. Eaves (who may or may not return) and Brunner will be our only forwards in the 25-30 range who are signed for next season. Hudler would have made it three.

That, combined with Z, Helm, Emmerton, Abdelkader, Tootoo, and the young guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, etc. forms a pretty decent roster going forward.

I can ask it another way, of course. Are you more comfortable with Dan Cleary/Justin Abdelkader on the top line, or Jiri Hudler?

It's a moot point to argue, but anytime Hudler is even obliquely brought up in a thread nowadays I have had to defend myself against the "ha ha, Brunner's awesome" stuff, as if I was bashing Brunner (go ahead and find one instance and I'll give you $50 in real money).
The main reason Hudler isn't here anymore is because we have younger, cheaper players coming up that can do what he did. Ideally we would have had Nyquist replace Hudler's production this year but he's still in the AHL, so instead we have "stop gap" Sammy & Brunner who are really replacing Hudler.

I personally liked Hudler & he was one of my favorite wings outside of Datsyuk & Kronwall, but at 4M for 4 years we have better long term options in the system and we could put that 4M to better use else where. We may not be able to use the difference now but right now we have 1M saved and when Sammy is gone that is up to 4M of say a 70-75M cap. That could be enough to get a bigger named FA if we ever decide to sign anyone again

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02-25-2013, 12:16 PM
  #349
SwissGrog
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
What is most scary, Brunner's production has come almost truly by himself. He isn't any kind of product of easy goals from Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Only his first one was an easy "empty-netter" from Datsyuk.

DET @ STL 0+0

DET @ CBJ 0+0
Clinches the game at shootout, being the only shooter to score from 4 pairs.

DET - DAL 1-2, Brunner (Datsyuk, Zetterberg)
Pavel makes a perfect criss-cross pass and Brunner has an empty net to score meanigless goal, 4 seconds before the end.

cut [...]

Reading your post, is clear that 11 points of Zetterberg are directly consequence of Brunner play/shooting (either as assist from Z to Brunner, or goal from Z with assist brunner or even a third-party goal born out of a rebound of B assisted by Z (like: Goal MrX, assists: Brunner, Zetterberg)). There truly is a chemistry or something going on.

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02-25-2013, 12:19 PM
  #350
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In a fearless prediction thread before the season I (fearlessly) predicted that Brunner would hit the ground running scoring 15-20 goals and 35-40 points over the course of the season. Before the season that was my best case scenario for Brunner and I saw it as pretty unlikely, but now he is on pace to exceed those numbers.
I really couldn't be happier about the signing, it's looking to be one of the best offseason signings league wide.
If he gets re-signed I'll probably start pinching my pennies to buy a Brunner jersey

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