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Old
02-25-2013, 11:31 AM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
If he gets re-signed I'll probably start pinching my pennies to buy a Brunner jersey
I've got one, but it's blue.

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02-25-2013, 11:32 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
In a fearless prediction thread before the season I (fearlessly) predicted that Brunner would hit the ground running scoring 15-20 goals and 35-40 points over the course of the season. Before the season that was my best case scenario for Brunner and I saw it as pretty unlikely, but now he is on pace to exceed those numbers.
I really couldn't be happier about the signing, it's looking to be one of the best offseason signings league wide.
If he gets re-signed I'll probably start pinching my pennies to buy a Brunner jersey
Already doing that

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02-25-2013, 11:43 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
Reading your post, is clear that 11 points of Zetterberg are directly consequence of Brunner play/shooting (either as assist from Z to Brunner, or goal from Z with assist brunner or even a third-party goal born out of a rebound of B assisted by Z (like: Goal MrX, assists: Brunner, Zetterberg)). There truly is a chemistry or something going on.
Imo, it's still just normal linemates production. They play together, of course the points are coming together. But it's still not that kind of "Dynamic duo" chemistry, that they will create the goal only by passing together themselves. There's always other parts around. But it really it's just great when it goes that way. There can be more to come, when they really start clicking together or if Brunner is put to Datsyuk-feed some day.

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02-25-2013, 12:25 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Imo, it's still just normal linemates production. They play together, of course the points are coming together. But it's still not that kind of "Dynamic duo" chemistry, that they will create the goal only by passing together themselves. There's always other parts around. But it really it's just great when it goes that way. There can be more to come, when they really start clicking together or if Brunner is put to Datsyuk-feed some day.
I was more implying that it seems that Z has profited almost more from Brunner, in point production (as I said, 11 points are the consequence of the play/shooting ability of Brunner, instead of a "magic" play of Z) than Brunner from Z. But of course the game is far more complex than statistics.

Anyway, Brunner is the second best goal scorer of the western conference, behind only Marleau, which had 9 goal in the first 5 games and 3 goal in the 12 game after, so I think that Brunner could reach and even surpass Marleau and be the best sniper in the west. Which has some meaning, since there are no infra-conference games, and the forwards of the west only play against the defense and the goalie of the west, making a true comparison possible.

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02-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
Brunner's outscoring Parise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Some good comparables with ~same level of ice-time and shooters:

Jeff Skinner CAR, 13 games, 18:49 avgIT, 57 shots, 7+7=14 points.
James Neal PIT, 19 games, 17:54 avgIT, 59 shots, 12+6=18 points.
David Clarkson NJD, 19 games, 17:32 avgIT, 72 shots, 10+7=17 points.
Daniel Briere, PHI, 16 games, 16:57 avgIT, 47 shots, 5+6=11 points.
Michael Grabner, NYI, 19 games, 16:53 avgIT, 46 shots, 7+3 = 10 points.
Patrick Marleau, SJS, 17 games, 18:34 avgIT, 56 shots, 12+6=18 points.
Marian Hossa, CHI, 18 games, 18:06 avgIT, 56 shots, 8+6=14 points.
Carl Hagelin, NYR, 17 games, 17:48 avgIT, 51 shots, 6+4=10 points.
Jeff Carter, LAK, 16 games, 18:20 avgIT, 47 shots, 9+2=11 points.
Nathan Horton, BOS, 15 games, 18:09 avgIT, 47 shots, 6+3=9 points.
Jaromir Jagr, DAL, 17 games, 18:15 avgIT, 45 shots, 5+8=13 points.
Damien Brunner, DET, 19 games, 17:05 avgIT, 66 shots, 10+6=16 points.

This group - shots/60min:

Skinner 13.98
Clarkson 12.97
Brunner 12.20
Marleau 10.65
Neal 10.41
Briere 10.40
Horton 10.36
Hossa 10.31
Hagelin 10.11
Carter 9.61
Jagr 8.70
Grabner 8.60

This group - goals/60min:

Marleau 2.28
Neal 2.12
Brunner 1.85
Carter 1.84
Clarkson 1.80
Skinner 1.72
Hossa 1.47
Horton 1.32
Grabner 1.31
Hagelin 1.19
Briere 1.11
Jagr 0.97

He is kind of fitting in the 5-6 million dollar player group (Marleau, Neal, Carter, Skinner, Hossa, Briere...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
What is most scary, Brunner's production has come almost truly by himself. He isn't any kind of product of easy goals from Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Only his first one was an easy "empty-netter" from Datsyuk.

DET @ STL 0+0

DET @ CBJ 0+0
Clinches the game at shootout, being the only shooter to score from 4 pairs.

DET - DAL 1-2, Brunner (Datsyuk, Zetterberg)
Pavel makes a perfect criss-cross pass and Brunner has an empty net to score meanigless goal, 4 seconds before the end.

DET - MIN 1-0, Brunner (Zetterberg, Kronwall)
Zetterberg just gives the puck to Brunner at central zone, Brunner skates fast through the zone towards the goal and snipes the puck in.

DET @ CHI 1-1, Franzen (Brunner, Zetterberg)
Zetterberg passes the puck to Brunner, he shoots with a "spin slapshot", rebound bounces for Franzen and he scores.

DET - DAL 3-1, Brunner (Franzen, Zetterberg)
Mule delivers a high point shot and Brunner tips it in from the air.

DET - STL 1-0, Zetterberg (Brunner, Kronwall) PP
Nice passing, from Kronwall to Brunner to Zetterberg and Zeta bangs the one-timer in.

DET @ CBJ 2-4, Brunner (Filppula)
Filppula wins the offensive-zone faceoff and Brunner's instant one-timer goes through.

DET - CGY 0+0

DET @ STL 4-1, Brunner (Ericsson, Zetterberg)
Zetterberg wins the O-zone faceoff, Ericsson shoots the puck from the point, rebound bounces to Brunner and he scores.

DET - EDM 1-0, Datsyuk (Brunner, Zetterberg) 5-on-3 PP.
Zetterberg passes from the point to left corner for Brunner who one-time-passes it hard towards the net-front and Datsyuk puts the puck in.

DET - LAK 2-0, Brunner (Zetterberg, White)
Zetterberg gives the puck Brunner, who puts a sniping wrister in, near the post.

DET - STL 0+0

DET - ANA 2-1 Tatar (Brunner, Andersson) PP
Brunner shoots the puck from the point, Tatar gets the rebound and puts it in.

DET @ MIN 1-0 Brunner (Datsyuk, Zetterberg) PP
Datsyuk bounces the puck in front of the net to Brunner, who bounces it in with a half-bounce/half-tip-in. Maybe the luckiest bounce from him, but still it was all hand-eye there.

DET @ NSH 0+0

DET - CBJ 1+0 Brunner (unassisted)
Got a loose puck behind a goal and puts it in through a five-hole.

DET - NSH 0+0

DET - VAN 3-3 Cleary (Brunner, Zeta) PP
Zeta passes the puck to Brunner, he shoots, gets his own rebound and passes it to Cleary, who scores.

DET - VAN 5-3 Brunner (Kronwall, Zeta) PP
Zeta passes the puck to Kronwall, who shoots, Brunner gets the rebound and dekes it past the goalie.

DET - VAN 6-3 Brunner (Filppula, Ericsson)
Filppula leaves the puck to Brunner, whose weak snipe from side of the boards finds the net.

DET - VAN 8-3 Andersson (Brunner, Ericsson)
Ericsson shoots from point, Brunner gets the rebound, sets up Andersson for a one-timer with a spin-o-rama pass and Andersson shoots the puck in the net.

These situations are more of his own natural goal scoring talent, that legendary NOSE FOR THE NET. He knews where the pucks will come, rebounds. Hudler did pretty much the same at last season, but Brunner's toolbox just has more to offer. Other goals are basicly just snipes. He is really creative, breaks the status quo with his own moves. He doesn't have much of assists, but those assists that have lead to goals, have been creative plays. Just watch the videos, they are all at NHL.com. You can't be more natural goal-scorer than Brunner looks to be. He just finds the net.
Hossa, who? Brunner has more goal and points.
Great work man, I do not know where you get all these stats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Well, first I'd want to see what Tatar would do with top line minutes and linemates like Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Tatar has 3 non-garbage goals and has been setting up numerous chances with his delicious saucer passes. If he had a guy like Datsyuk feeding him... man, dangerous.

To me, Tatar has been making more sound puck decisions. He's better defensively. He's got slicker hands. Shows more creativity.

Brunner has Tatar beat in two places. Speed and shot. And I'm not all that sure about the shot. Tatar hasn't shown it much.
Fine, I said several times Tatar should get a chance with Datsyuk. I believa he would do great. But at this point it is wrong to say he is better than Brunner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
In a fearless prediction thread before the season I (fearlessly) predicted that Brunner would hit the ground running scoring 15-20 goals and 35-40 points over the course of the season. Before the season that was my best case scenario for Brunner and I saw it as pretty unlikely, but now he is on pace to exceed those numbers.
I really couldn't be happier about the signing, it's looking to be one of the best offseason signings league wide.
If he gets re-signed I'll probably start pinching my pennies to buy a Brunner jersey
Good on you. Now you just have to predict that Babcock will try Tatar with Datsyuk and Tatar will do great.

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02-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
I do not think Tatar is better. Brunner is at the moment one of the best goalscorers in the league. He is tied for 1st in the league for ES goals, he is tied for 7th in goals scored and he leads the team in goals.
If Brunner had a clue on how to play defense you would have a argument. Scoring goals isn't the only aspect to consider when valuing one's worth as a hockey player. Tatar is better in almost every aspect of the game, other than scoring goals, when compared to Brunner. They are nearly identical in size but Tatar is infinitely stronger on the puck than Brunner, you don't see Tatar getting pushed around all that often. And as others have said, put Tatar with Zetterberg or Datsyuk and you may see him scoring as often as Brunner. But in the end, who cares, they are both wearing the winged wheel and they will be integral for the future of the team.

I think the people talking about Brunner being a superstar is blowing it a little out of proportion. He's no Malkin, Stamkos, Nash, Crosby, Kane, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc etc etc. But he is fantastic at doing what the Red Wings have brought him over to do. It's nice to see someone that loves to shoot the puck and more importantly, find the back of it.

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02-25-2013, 01:40 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
If Brunner had a clue on how to play defense you would have a argument. Scoring goals isn't the only aspect to consider when valuing one's worth as a hockey player. Tatar is better in almost every aspect of the game, other than scoring goals, when compared to Brunner. They are nearly identical in size but Tatar is infinitely stronger on the puck than Brunner, you don't see Tatar getting pushed around all that often. And as others have said, put Tatar with Zetterberg or Datsyuk and you may see him scoring as often as Brunner. But in the end, who cares, they are both wearing the winged wheel and they will be integral for the future of the team.

I think the people talking about Brunner being a superstar is blowing it a little out of proportion. He's no Malkin, Stamkos, Nash, Crosby, Kane, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc etc etc. But he is fantastic at doing what the Red Wings have brought him over to do. It's nice to see someone that loves to shoot the puck and more importantly, find the back of it.
I think it's interesting. For years people have complained that Babcock wouldn't play offensively gifted players with limited defensive abilities in the top 6. Brunner is blowing that idea out of the water for a few reasons 1. He can skate 2. He's scoring 3. He can skate. Makes up for a lot.

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02-25-2013, 01:55 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think it's interesting. For years people have complained that Babcock wouldn't play offensively gifted players with limited defensive abilities in the top 6. Brunner is blowing that idea out of the water for a few reasons 1. He can skate 2. He's scoring 3. He can skate. Makes up for a lot.
****, he's the first one they've had in a while.

I'm not complaining by any means, I'm loving every minute of watching him score. Tatar is just a better all-around hockey player. As I said though, doesn't really matter, they're both Red Wings.

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02-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
If Brunner had a clue on how to play defense you would have a argument. Scoring goals isn't the only aspect to consider when valuing one's worth as a hockey player. Tatar is better in almost every aspect of the game, other than scoring goals, when compared to Brunner. They are nearly identical in size but Tatar is infinitely stronger on the puck than Brunner, you don't see Tatar getting pushed around all that often. And as others have said, put Tatar with Zetterberg or Datsyuk and you may see him scoring as often as Brunner. But in the end, who cares, they are both wearing the winged wheel and they will be integral for the future of the team.

I think the people talking about Brunner being a superstar is blowing it a little out of proportion. He's no Malkin, Stamkos, Nash, Crosby, Kane, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc etc etc. But he is fantastic at doing what the Red Wings have brought him over to do. It's nice to see someone that loves to shoot the puck and more importantly, find the back of it.
Considering that he was never drafted and that he came from nowhere I am more than happy with his game. I do not expect him to be 50/60 goals scorer, but if he can be a 20-30 goal scorer, I am happy with that. But at this point his numbers can be compared to some of the best snipers in the league.
What I like about his game is that he turns up in the right places and the puck follows him. That is natural to goal scorers and it can't be taught.
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Originally Posted by crashman View Post
I agree.

I'm thrilled that he's scoring so often, but it's easy to see he's a one dimensional player. Not at all trying to knock the guy, I think he's been better most people thought he could be, certainly better than I thought he'd EVER be.

But, just because he has more goals/points than lots of established players in this league doesn't mean he's even close to being on their level (Hossa and Parise were both mentioned in this thread).

The talk of buying his jersey and calling him a star is ridiculous at this point. He's was thrown on a line with 2 of the most talented play-makers in this league from day one, of course he's going to score some goals and put up points!

And Tatar looks like real gamer thus far. I'm very excited about his future.
It does not matter if he is one demensional, he can skate and then he plays with some great 2 ways players who can cover for him. We can't have 6 great 2 way players.

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02-25-2013, 02:12 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by crashman View Post
Absolutely, but I wouldn't call him a star player, or expect this kind of production to continue forever.

If you watch him, you'll notice he gets shut down a lot and turns the puck over a decent amount. Guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula can beat defenseman and are way stronger on the puck than Brunner.

He's still adjusting though, I understand that.
He has played only 19 games. I do not think he is a star player, but I hope he can be. What I live about his game is that he finds the right places and the puck follows him. That alone could make him a very good goal scorer.

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02-25-2013, 02:53 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think it's interesting. For years people have complained that Babcock wouldn't play offensively gifted players with limited defensive abilities in the top 6. Brunner is blowing that idea out of the water for a few reasons 1. He can skate 2. He's scoring 3. He can skate. Makes up for a lot.
And I think at this point we don't have many other options.

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02-25-2013, 05:00 PM
  #364
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Brunner strikes me as the European Michael Ryder.

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02-25-2013, 05:03 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think it's interesting. For years people have complained that Babcock wouldn't play offensively gifted players with limited defensive abilities in the top 6. Brunner is blowing that idea out of the water for a few reasons 1. He can skate 2. He's scoring 3. He can skate. Makes up for a lot.
I don't think Brunner's skating is all that awesome, to be honest.

He's definitely got a goal scorer's mentality, though.

But I see him as a strictly complementary player at this point.

Plug goal scorers next to Z or Datsyuk, and give them 1st Unit PP minutes, and they score.

Not a shocker.

How many points do you think Tatar would put him on Datsyuk's wing with a full season on the first PP unit.
(I mention Tatar because I didn't want to bring up Hudler... but the same deal)

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02-25-2013, 05:07 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I don't think Brunner's skating is all that awesome, to be honest.

He's definitely got a goal scorer's mentality, though.

But I see him as a strictly complementary player at this point.

Plug goal scorers next to Z or Datsyuk, and give them 1st Unit PP minutes, and they score.

Not a shocker.

How many points do you think Tatar would put him on Datsyuk's wing with a full season on the first PP unit.
(I mention Tatar because I didn't want to bring up Hudler... but the same deal)
Brunner has wheels, he's probably slightly behind Filppula in the skating category. As for Tatar, I think he would score 20-25 next to Datsyuk, but the line would be much better with him than Hudler, since Tatar can skate and retrieve pucks much better.

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02-25-2013, 05:18 PM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I don't think Brunner's skating is all that awesome, to be honest.

He's definitely got a goal scorer's mentality, though.

But I see him as a strictly complementary player at this point.

Plug goal scorers next to Z or Datsyuk, and give them 1st Unit PP minutes, and they score.

Not a shocker.

How many points do you think Tatar would put him on Datsyuk's wing with a full season on the first PP unit.
(I mention Tatar because I didn't want to bring up Hudler... but the same deal)
In a regular 82 game schedule, Brunner would be on pace for 43 goals. Highest since Hossa's 40 in '09, and only you would have the guts to call him a complimentary player and find some sort of way to despair over how ordinary and insignificant he is.

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02-25-2013, 05:22 PM
  #368
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I don't know what to make of Brunner. Can he handle a full 82 game season? This is a bad year to assess what you have from a player like Brunner.

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02-25-2013, 05:24 PM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Brunner has wheels, he's probably slightly behind Filppula in the skating category. As for Tatar, I think he would score 20-25 next to Datsyuk, but the line would be much better with him than Hudler, since Tatar can skate and retrieve pucks much better.
He hasn't shown it.
I see it in the scouting report.

I think Tatar would score 20-25 next to Datsyuk and 10 more on the PP

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02-25-2013, 05:26 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
In a regular 82 game schedule, Brunner would be on pace for 43 goals. Highest since Hossa's 40 in '09, and only you would have the guts to call him a complimentary player and find some sort of way to despair over how ordinary and insignificant he is.

I understand what a complementary player is. I also know how to spell complementary


Hossa's strenghts go far, far beyond goal scoring. Which is why he's more than complementary.

Let me see more of Brunner. I want to see backchecking and work along the boards... and ONE-ON-ONE ability.

Right now all I see is pretty good shot and the willingness to use it.

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02-25-2013, 05:26 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
He hasn't shown it.
I see it in the scouting report.

I think Tatar would score 20-25 next to Datsyuk and 10 more on the PP

Just in case you forgot.

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02-25-2013, 05:26 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
In a regular 82 game schedule, Brunner would be on pace for 43 goals. Highest since Hossa's 40 in '09, and only you would have the guts to call him a complimentary player and find some sort of way to despair over how ordinary and insignificant he is.
Most wingers are complimentary players other than the elite, like Hossa. Brunner isn't the type of player that can succeed without a good playmaking centering him. And he isn't good around the boards or defensively. He's definitely a complementary player, and its not a bad thing.

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02-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
In a regular 82 game schedule, Brunner would be on pace for 43 goals. Highest since Hossa's 40 in '09, and only you would have the guts to call him a complimentary player and find some sort of way to despair over how ordinary and insignificant he is.
To be fair to Bob's point; majority of a roster is going to be made up of players that compliment each other. You have elite talent (Datysuk, Zetterberg) and you try to find players that will work best with them. There are very few people that can 'take over a game.' As it's been discussed before; Brunner is no superstar but he is proving to be extremely good at his role which is to shoot and score. The Red Wings haven't had that in a long time.

I wish people would stop comparing what Hossa did and what Brunner is doing though. Two vastly different players.

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02-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #374
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Hossa>Brunner

AINEC

Brunner would need to score 60 goals a season to equal what Hossa does with and without the puck.

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02-25-2013, 05:32 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I understand what a complementary player is. I also know how to spell complementary
Wow... You do not know how to spell complimentary correctly. Congrats on looking like a child.


Quote:
Hossa's strenghts go far, far beyond goal scoring. Which is why he's more than complementary.
I have more of a problem with you trying to trivialize Brunner than him being called a complimentary player. You always seem to try to nitpick and show how one person isn't so special because you feel the need to show everyone how you know everything and explain how the Wings aren't so good when they do in fact do something good.
Quote:
Let me see more of Brunner. I want to see backchecking and work along the boards... and ONE-ON-ONE ability.
If you pay attention, you actually do see Brunner's defensive game improving every game. I've certainly noticed it.

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