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Sam Gagner to NYR

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Old
01-21-2013, 12:01 PM
  #26
MikeModano9
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hahaha Schultz and Gagner for Stepan is borderline absurd even if you threw in a 1st round pick. Gagner is getting underrated again as per usual. The only other person to outscore Gagner from his draft year so far is Kane. He's not getting traded for prospects.

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01-21-2013, 12:07 PM
  #27
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A 2nd does nothing to help us win a Cup, why would we downgrade at C just for a 2nd? And right now, prospects and picks are the only tradeable assets we have. We are in win-now mode.

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01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #28
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Gagner, MPS and 2013 2nd for Stepan, Sam Noreau & C Thomas/A Yogan (you choose). Your choice
No takebacks

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01-21-2013, 12:15 PM
  #29
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No we arn't giving you Gagner for Futures.

/thread

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01-21-2013, 12:20 PM
  #30
Gardner McKay
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No we arn't giving you Gagner for Futures.

/thread
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.

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01-21-2013, 12:27 PM
  #31
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I don`t see Gagner as a good fit for a third line center.

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01-21-2013, 12:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Gagner, MPS and 2013 2nd for Stepan, Sam Noreau & C Thomas/A Yogan (you choose). Your choice
No takebacks
Terrible offer. Gagner and 2013 2nd for Stepan and McIIrath, take it or leave it.

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01-21-2013, 12:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.
Yep. And if you take away all the games where Rick Nash got points last year, he had a whopping 0 points. Way to go out and trade for a 0 point guy... See how ridiculous that argument is? Gags earned those points fairly

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01-21-2013, 12:42 PM
  #34
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Terrible offer. Gagner and 2013 2nd for Stepan and McIIrath, take it or leave it.
You just offered the Gagner+2nd for Stepan (which is already not worth it for us). We're going to trade McIlrath... why?

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01-21-2013, 12:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.
And how would you explain away Gagner's other 40 point seasons? He caught a hot game and padded his stats pretty well but it's not like he's the first player to ever have a hot streak or lucky game. Over 5 seasons he's maintained a 40 point status as a player and hasn't had a lot of high end talent to work with while doing it.

We'll keep Gagner as he'll be far more valuable to Edmonton than Skjei and a late 1st anyways. We're building our way out of the bottom now and trying to finish the rebuil;d...not extend it by another couple years.

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01-21-2013, 12:48 PM
  #36
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So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?

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01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?
The problem is we don't really have a replacement for Gagner in the system. Trading away our second ine center without having a replacement lined up will greatly extend the rebuild as we'd need to draft and develop one or trade another valuable asset for a suitable replacement.

We're simply not strong enough at C to trade away a top 6 player and we are trying to finish the rebuild. It was a 5 year plan and this is year 5 after all. We intend to be in the 10-15 range in the draft this year if not higher and in the playoffs next year.

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01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?
Because taking prospects now sets us back. Why not trade Hall, Yakupov, Eberle etc.. while we are at it?

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Old
01-21-2013, 12:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?
The Oilers aren't necessarily in win-now mode. But they are past the acquire futures for current depth mode. A team can not perpetually trade away present for future. That is what leads to a never-ending rebuild. Factor in that outside of Sam Gagner there is not a player in the organization either now or in the future who looks like they can step into a 2nd line center spot.

It makes zero sense to trade Gagner for futures. It makes even less sense when those futures are a college d-man likely 4+ years away from making it to the NHL and even longer before he becomes a legit contributor.

Is the value there? Maybe, but it sort of is irrelevant.

Sam Gagner might not be what Oiler fans hoped he would turn out to be. But he is right now a 2nd line centerman in the NHL who can contribute on a night to night basis (1 assist and shootout winner last night). Oilers need to keep that piece unless they can find an actual upgrade. The Rangers obviously wouldn't be looking to trade an upgrade for Sam Gagner in return for Sam Gagner. So it is basically dead before it gets going.

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01-21-2013, 01:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Hall and Eberle combined are better linemates than Dubinsky+Gaborik on Stepan's wings.
Problem is you started a thread about Gagner not Nugent-Hopkins....

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01-21-2013, 02:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.
Problem is its a bone headed argument. What is the point cut off, is it a 2 point game, 4 point game, a hat trick?

I mean if you take away Vanek's 5 point night he has zero points, what a bum that guy is cant keep up a 5 ppg average so it just doesnt count.

Oh wait points dont work like that. Gagner earned 8 points and they show up in his totals

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01-21-2013, 02:10 PM
  #42
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Problem is its a bone headed argument. What is the point cut off, is it a 2 point game, 4 point game, a hat trick?

I mean if you take away Vanek's 5 point night he has zero points, what a bum that guy is cant keep up a 5 ppg average so it just doesnt count.

Oh wait points dont work like that. Gagner earned 8 points and they show up in his totals
Gotta love how guys can use the 8 point game against him, something only a handful of players have ever done.

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01-21-2013, 02:12 PM
  #43
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Nah.

Simple reason is that we need Gagner to centre our 2nd line.

If not, then its either Horcoff, then Belanger. Unfortunately, those two are made for the 3rd and 4th lines.
So unless its an equal or greater 2nd center than Sam, we cannot trade him.

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01-21-2013, 02:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?
Admittedly I am not a huge Gagner fan by any definition, but this concept is easy enough to grasp, really. The Oilers core is buildt around Eberle, Hall, RNH, maybe Schultz. Gagner does go well with this age-wise and isn`t surplus from a position of strength, so he isn`t disposable for very distant futures. Offer this for older players like Horcoff or Hemsky and see if you get somewhere.

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01-21-2013, 02:16 PM
  #45
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The way our defense has been playing and the way the cap is bearing down, I'm not dealing McIlrath or Skeji for anything other than a fleece job.

And I don't even like McIlrath that much as a prospect but for gods sake we have Bickel in our lineup.

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01-21-2013, 02:35 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The point of this thread is to have Gagner as NYR's 3C. Never mind that Stepan>>Gagner, and the difference isn't a 2nd. Only deal I would take is Gagner and J Schultz for Stepan++.
Stephan wouldn't get you close to getting J.Schultz. Stephan is a lateral movement and doesn't address the Oiler problems, not interested. The Oilers are stock full of top prospect D and at the moment they don't need any more. Seen McIlrath play a number of times last year and wasn't too impressed. Skeji would be behind Gernat, Musil, Marincin, and Klefbom, pass.

Like a number of people have stated, until the Oilers have a definite improvement over Gagner, they would rather keep him

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01-21-2013, 02:40 PM
  #47
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If Sam Gagner gets traded it's only for an upgrade. Otherwise EDM doesn't have enough centre depth. Besides, OP said he wanted Gagner for the 3rd line? He's nowhere near effective enough defensively and he's not gritty enough to play a 3rd line role.

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01-21-2013, 02:51 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.
That is an entirely fair argument as regards his game-to-game production consistency. It has little to do, however, with his consistency in other facets of the game, or his overall ability, or what he'll deliver to a team year after year. Therefore it's not particularly relevant.

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01-21-2013, 02:59 PM
  #49
Gardner McKay
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Yep. And if you take away all the games where Rick Nash got points last year, he had a whopping 0 points. Way to go out and trade for a 0 point guy... See how ridiculous that argument is? Gags earned those points fairly
It is nearly 20% of his total points. Thats what I am saying. 1 game is 20% of his production last year. Other wise he is a stable 40 point player but won't really go near 50.

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01-21-2013, 03:02 PM
  #50
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That is an entirely fair argument as regards his game-to-game production consistency. It has little to do, however, with his consistency in other facets of the game, or his overall ability, or what he'll deliver to a team year after year. Therefore it's not particularly relevant.
And that is a fair point but when I see people talk about his offense from last year I just feel it is necessary to point it out.

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