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Sam Gagner to NYR

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Old
01-21-2013, 03:13 PM
  #51
raab
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
It is nearly 20% of his total points. Thats what I am saying. 1 game is 20% of his production last year. Other wise he is a stable 40 point player but won't really go near 50.
WTF are you talking about? He had 49 points as a rookie at the age of 18. He played two short seasons where he's been at 41 and 42 points which Im sure if he played an extra 10 games he would have had 4 or 5 points. All while playing on one of the worst teams in the league with some horrible line mates. I'll make an avatar bet right now Gagner has more points then Stepan this year.

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01-21-2013, 03:25 PM
  #52
Kris Chreider
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The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.

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01-21-2013, 03:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
A 2nd does nothing to help us win a Cup, why would we downgrade at C just for a 2nd? And right now, prospects and picks are the only tradeable assets we have. We are in win-now mode.
And why would we trade our only center that is even close to good enough to play with the second line ? So we can put Horcoff there ? WE do not want another first overall pick . We are looking to improve

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01-21-2013, 03:35 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
WTF are you talking about? He had 49 points as a rookie at the age of 18. He played two short seasons where he's been at 41 and 42 points which Im sure if he played an extra 10 games he would have had 4 or 5 points. All while playing on one of the worst teams in the league with some horrible line mates. I'll make an avatar bet right now Gagner has more points then Stepan this year.
Ive just seen people in the past refer to Gagner as a 50 point player when in fact he has never been. Also with regards to Stepan there is no telling what Torts is going to do this year with the lines.

Avatar Bet? What are the terms?

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01-21-2013, 03:38 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.
Well said. Stepan spent a lot of the year with Dubinsky and Callahan/Prust. He didn't play the entire year with Gaborik like so many assume.

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01-21-2013, 03:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
It is nearly 20% of his total points. Thats what I am saying. 1 game is 20% of his production last year. Other wise he is a stable 40 point player but won't really go near 50.
And yet you continue to ignore his previous 4 40 point seasons. Even if he didn't have an 8 point game and only put up 1 or 2 that game...he'd still have earned 40 points last season.

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01-21-2013, 03:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Ive just seen people in the past refer to Gagner as a 50 point player when in fact he has never been. Also with regards to Stepan there is no telling what Torts is going to do this year with the lines.

Avatar Bet? What are the terms?
Both have to play 3/4's of the season and the avatar has to do with the winning player. Ex: I win you sport a Gagner avy, you win I sport a Stepan avy and let's make it for the duration of the play-offs. You in?

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01-21-2013, 03:48 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.
No Horcoff played with Hall and Eb's there first season, then RNH entered the fold in the second season. Gagner might have played with them when RNH got hurt for that short span but I can't remember. Gagner's line mates where offensive studs like Smyth, MPS, and Hemsky(when he wasn't injured).

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01-21-2013, 03:52 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
If Edmonton hopes to make the playoffs they can't afford to sacrifice depth in net, at center or on the blueline.

This isn't supposed to be a tank year.
haven't the last three years not supposed to be a tank year for Edmonton?

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01-21-2013, 04:00 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.
Not nearly as often as you'd like to believe. The Oilers brought Hall in with Horcoff as his primary center(stupid isn't it). Yes they did get some time together but Hall was injured and Eberle played sheltered minutes. Gagner has had horrible linemates to work with for his first 3 years(Nilsson, Cogliano, O'Sullivan); even discounting 2010-2012 and still puts up ~40 pts/year.

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01-21-2013, 04:04 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
haven't the last three years not supposed to be a tank year for Edmonton?
They were supposed to be rebuilding years. We didn't expect to finish as low as we have over the last 2 years but the injuries that lead to Hall being drafted showed how truly shallow we were on depth of veteran talent.

Even though we're still shallow on Veteran talent Hemsky is playing well and has been healthy and more himself following a big hit late last year. So long as our D holds up relatively well (Whitney notwithstanding) we should finish somewhere between 10-15 just missing the playoffs this year and hopefully making them next year.

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01-21-2013, 04:08 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The point of this thread is to have Gagner as NYR's 3C. Never mind that Stepan>>Gagner, and the difference isn't a 2nd. Only deal I would take is Gagner and J Schultz for Stepan++.
Even more brutal then Oilers fans proposals.

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01-21-2013, 04:13 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
No Horcoff played with Hall and Eb's there first season, then RNH entered the fold in the second season. Gagner might have played with them when RNH got hurt for that short span but I can't remember. Gagner's line mates where offensive studs like Smyth, MPS, and Hemsky(when he wasn't injured).
in Hall and Eberles first year Gagner was babysitting Pajaarvi and Omark for a lot of the season was he not? That's a pretty tall task to ask a young player. That's what people never take into account with Gagner, he's still a young guy himself but because of the oilers situation the last few years he's been asked to basically be a veteran and take harder assignments when he should probably still have been getting a bit of sheltering himself.

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01-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
in Hall and Eberles first year Gagner was babysitting Pajaarvi and Omark for a lot of the season was he not? That's a pretty tall task to ask a young player. That's what people never take into account with Gagner, he's still a young guy himself but because of the oilers situation the last few years he's been asked to basically be a veteran and take harder assignments when he should probably still have been getting a bit of sheltering himself.
According to LWL he played most of his time in 2010/11 was with MPS and Omark around 5.7%, Then a little less with Hall and Eberle at 4.5%, 3.5% with Hemsky and Penner, and roughly 2% with MPS and Jones.

In 2011/12 he was with Hall and Hemsky for 3.96%, Hall and Eberle for 3.77%, then studs like Belanger and Jones for 2.22%, Hemsky and Hartikainen for 2.13%, and Belanger and MPS for 1.7%

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01-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #65
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gagner and jones for richards, maybe?

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01-21-2013, 04:42 PM
  #66
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Any proposed deal for Gagner is doomed to fail.

The Oilers have no other decent options for 2C after Gagner, so unless another trade is lined up, you would need to have a different center coming back(which would defeat the entire purpose of the trade) or overpay(and Gagner isn't the type of player you overpay for).

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01-21-2013, 04:59 PM
  #67
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Like I said in the Hemsky thread, at this stage the Oilers shouldn't be trading proven NHL players for prospects and picks.

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01-21-2013, 05:26 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.
You have no clue what your talking about but besides that we cant trade Gagner (not that i want too) Because we have no one to replace him and t's time to stop trading for potential/picks and start doing something with what we have. The core is there.

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01-21-2013, 07:16 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The point of this thread is to have Gagner as NYR's 3C. Never mind that Stepan>>Gagner, and the difference isn't a 2nd. Only deal I would take is Gagner and J Schultz for Stepan++.
J Schultz not going any where. What the ++ would be you would not add it.

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01-21-2013, 07:23 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Not really /thread.

With respect to Gagners stats...

Take away his 8 point game and they look even more pedestrian. 14-25-39.

Almost 20% of his seasons production came game during 1 game vs Chicago in February.

I wouldn't trade a 1st and Skjei for him either way. You keep him, well keep our prospects. Every one is happy.
Take away his slow start due to injury and he scored 45 in 55...wow thats almost PPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
So are the Oilers now in win-now mode or something? You're not going to be contenders this year, what's wrong with taking more prospects?
not exactly...but were past tank mode, the team needs to improve. no more subtracting.

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01-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
The only way Gagner outscores Stepan is if he goes on one of his hot streaks. 82-game season, Stepan easily beats Gagner in all categories.

You know who else had 47 pts? Tyler Bozak.

Before RNH, Gagner was playing with Hall and Eberle regularly, just like Bozak with Kessel. Just saying.
well that's a whole pile of "Fail" Gagner actually started last season as a 3rd line RW with Belanger, and Paajarvi. When RNH went down he was put on the line with Hall and Eberle.....gets 15 points in 4 games with them.
Not that I think Gagners value is that high but it would take a stupid overpayment to acquire him.
RNH-Gagner-Horcoff-Belanger are the Oilers centres right now. Take him out and everyone moves up a line and yet another rookie gets inserted in the line up.

This trade will not ever happen this season

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01-21-2013, 07:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Except Stepan has already eclipsed Gagners best season in his second year, and he's one of our primary penalty killers up front. Gagner is so far just another guy who is perpetually "going to break out this year" and never does.

There's a reason Edmonton fans have been trying to trade this guy for the last 3 years, and it's not because his value is on par with Stepan's.
I already identified you for trolling.
But see you believe him to be a lesser center for your team.

Stepan faced 2nd Comp but was very sheltered in Zone Start.
So much so since the 05 lockout players with that zone start should be 2.35P/60 he was 1.69 which is brutal.


Gagner faced 2/3rdcomp in a 54% zone start and should have got 1.75P/60 he had 1.96.
He was a plus player.

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01-21-2013, 08:10 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Except Stepan has already eclipsed Gagners best season in his second year, and he's one of our primary penalty killers up front. Gagner is so far just another guy who is perpetually "going to break out this year" and never does.

There's a reason Edmonton fans have been trying to trade this guy for the last 3 years, and it's not because his value is on par with Stepan's.
Oh come now. Their ppg last year:

Gagner ppg - 0.63

Stepan ppg - 0.62

Lets not get ridiculous. They had basically the exact same year in production, one just missed 7 games. Stepan's PKing and age is what gives him the edge, not the fact that he scored two more ****ing points than Gagner's career high, and had essentially the same ppg. Stepan also played on a much better team and got over a half minute more per game on the PP. In fact they both had 35 points at evens despite Gagner playing in 7 less games, playing on a worse team, and Stepan having a nearly 10% ZS advantage. Stepan played slighty better competition and despite a gaudy 60%+ zonestart on one of the leagues top teams he had a negative CorsiRel (unlike Gagner). So despite Stepan scoring a whopping 4 more points in 7 more games it was Gagner who was the more effective player at evens in terms of points and advanced stats.

Another thing is Stepan's stats only improved 6 points from the year before, yet we don't hear claims of staganation. Maybe the reason Gagner hasn't broke out yet is because he's just like Stepan, a kid. This year and next are big ones for Gagner because given his age he's still more likely to break out now than anytime before this. He would have been on his ELC last season had he taken the same development path as Jordan Eberle. The fact that he survived playing on terrible teams as a player so young shouldn't be the knock on him people like to portray it as. Stepan has terrific potential but it's not fair to look so far down on Gagner when he has his own significant argument in terms of who was the better player last season.

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01-21-2013, 08:16 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
haven't the last three years not supposed to be a tank year for Edmonton?
Do your work before you write unresearched incorrect info. i can guarantee the oilers intentionally tanked from Xmas on.

look at which goalie started with what Dmen.

Ask yourself why they played the 3.56GA and .881SV% goalie 17 times
to a 1W-12L - 4 OTL from Xmas,

when they could have played the goalie who was
16W-10L-3OTL 2.33GA .926SV% from Jan.

Renney was a good soldier and rolled out KHB to keep us in the Lottery.

in a series defensive sets it became clear Gilbert and Barker had to go.

What is even sweeter is Dubnyk numbers from last year
with the d that is the base for our current D.
Smid-Petry
Whitney-Sutton/N. Schultz
XXX-Potter

Dubnyk played 26 games

16W - 8L - 2OTL 2.03GA .937SV%

plus we added J. Schultz - Fistric

Amazingly KHB is on IR

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01-21-2013, 08:22 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Not nearly as often as you'd like to believe. The Oilers brought Hall in with Horcoff as his primary center(stupid isn't it). Yes they did get some time together but Hall was injured and Eberle played sheltered minutes. Gagner has had horrible linemates to work with for his first 3 years(Nilsson, Cogliano, O'Sullivan); even discounting 2010-2012 and still puts up ~40 pts/year.
Not to mention all of Brule-Penner, Cogliano-Nilsson had career seasons playing with him. Paajarvi and Omark are still to young to be sure of but early on that looks like a career seasons for them too. He doesn't get credit for it but it sure seems like his linemates were better off with him than without him, as opposed to the other way around.

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