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Game #3: at Detroit, 1.22 (6:30 PM, Fox Sports Southwest, 1310 AM, 104.1 FM)

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01-23-2013, 04:05 PM
  #676
Datsyuk Dangles
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Howard's a starter no doubt, but I'd put him at about the level of MAF.
And Lehtonen way above him right?

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01-23-2013, 04:11 PM
  #677
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What exactly do you expect to get out of a discussion about which goalie is better on the Stars board? Seriously? Of course we think Lehtonen is better than Howard.

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01-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #678
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What exactly do you expect to get out of a discussion about which goalie is better on the Stars board? Seriously? Of course we think Lehtonen is better than Howard.
Came to ask a quick question about Benn and I saw the Howard post. Chimed in on it and then responded to LT's comment. If you're going to let bias get in the way, yes, you're right there is nothing to gain from a discussion about it. I thought you guys were capable of better, but I guess not. I'll leave if that's what you prefer.

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01-23-2013, 04:20 PM
  #679
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You're bringing in bias as well. It's only natural. To act like bias is the sole reason we think Lehtonen is a better goalie than Howard says something about you and your bias.

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01-23-2013, 04:26 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
You really have no clue about Howard/Detroit then. Howard is the biggest reason we made the playoffs three years ago. He had a bad sophomore year two years agor but he was in Vezina talks last year before injuries ruined his year. Last night, for example, Howard kept the wings in the game. Stars should've had a 4 or 5 goal lead going into the third. Howard generally doesn't struggle with consistency, Detroit's defense does though.
A Detroit fan isn't going to convince me that Howard is some sort of elite starter.

Three years ago, I'll never understand that. When Detroit had that surge to make the playoffs, it was NOT because Howard was stealing every game, it was because the team was playing insanely well and had amazing puck possesion. I know this because I saw numerous games of Detroit during that time (Including Dallas) and no team could get decent zone time because Babcocks puck possesion game plan was working so well.

The reply to this is that Howard kept them in the race before that surge, however, if he was the reason they made the playoffs you'd think he'd be resposnible for a majority of those games. Babcock said this, and for some reason people adopted this point of view. It's revisionist history.

He wasn't in Vezina talks last year, not even close. I accept he had a great game yesterday, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

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01-23-2013, 04:29 PM
  #681
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Howard's an above average starter. He's better than MAF. Not as good as Kari.

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01-23-2013, 04:52 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Brand New Stars View Post
You're bringing in bias as well. It's only natural. To act like bias is the sole reason we think Lehtonen is a better goalie than Howard says something about you and your bias.
To be honest I'm not sure who I would take between Lehtonen and Howard

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01-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
A Detroit fan isn't going to convince me that Howard is some sort of elite starter.

Three years ago, I'll never understand that. When Detroit had that surge to make the playoffs, it was NOT because Howard was stealing every game, it was because the team was playing insanely well and had amazing puck possesion. I know this because I saw numerous games of Detroit during that time (Including Dallas) and no team could get decent zone time because Babcocks puck possesion game plan was working so well.

The reply to this is that Howard kept them in the race before that surge, however, if he was the reason they made the playoffs you'd think he'd be resposnible for a majority of those games. Babcock said this, and for some reason people adopted this point of view. It's revisionist history.

He wasn't in Vezina talks last year, not even close. I accept he had a great game yesterday, but that doesn't mean anything to me.
I didn't say he was an elite starter.

Three years ago they had a ton of injuries and the defense the team was just playing awful, Howard kept us in games and stole games. Once guys came back we made a huge run to improve our playoff positioning, which I doubt we would've had to begin with without Howard.

He was in Vezina talks before going down with several injuries.

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01-23-2013, 05:00 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I didn't say he was an elite starter.

Three years ago they had a ton of injuries and the defense the team was just playing awful, Howard kept us in games and stole games. Once guys came back we made a huge run to improve our playoff positioning, which I doubt we would've had to begin with without Howard.

He was in Vezina talks before going down with several injuries.
You can't come to the Stars board with reasonable arguments. It's like talking to a wall. Everybody here is an expert.

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01-23-2013, 05:12 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I didn't say he was an elite starter.

Three years ago they had a ton of injuries and the defense the team was just playing awful, Howard kept us in games and stole games. Once guys came back we made a huge run to improve our playoff positioning, which I doubt we would've had to begin with without Howard.

He was in Vezina talks before going down with several injuries.
The Wings weren't that close to a playoff position before the surge, Howard's stats and play weren't out of this world. He might not have drowned them, but he didn't pull them back to shore untill the team got it together.

He might have had Red Wings fans saying it, but he wasn't a serious contender any more than Brian Elliot, Halak, Kippursoff and Theodore were.

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01-23-2013, 05:24 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
And Lehtonen way above him right?
Yes...much in the same way you may think Howard is the ****.

Now do you have a question about Benn or are you going to continue whinging incessantly?

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01-23-2013, 06:08 PM
  #687
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Howard is in the same category as Osgood was. Osgood wasn't a above average goalie and everyone knew that but his numbers made him seem like it because of the team in front of him

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01-23-2013, 06:10 PM
  #688
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Oh DD... should've just PM'ed me.

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01-23-2013, 06:24 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by MANN99 View Post
Howard is in the same category as Osgood was. Osgood wasn't a above average goalie and everyone knew that but his numbers made him seem like it because of the team in front of him
:/ Osgood never broke 92% in his entire career. Howard has done it twice already. Howard is easily superior to Osgood.

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01-23-2013, 06:29 PM
  #690
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Everybody here is an expert.
True, but only some of us actually claim this outwardly.

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01-23-2013, 06:32 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
:/ Osgood never broke 92% in his entire career. Howard has done it twice already. Howard is easily superior to Osgood.
I feel like Osgood was sort of the Trent Dilfer of goaltenders while I see Howard as more of a Matt Schaub.

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01-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
True, but only some of us actually claim this outwardly.
Or the ones who vehemently disagree with reasonable arguments. To claim that Jimmy Howard isn't a great goalie is just ridiculous.


Holds NCAA records for GAA(1.19) and save percentage(.954) – 2003–04.
Only NHL goalie to face a penalty shot in each of his first two games.
Named to the 2005–06 AHL All-Rookie team.
Named the 2009–2010 Detroit Red Wings Rookie of the Year in voting by the Detroit Sports Broadcasters Association.
Runner-up for the 2010 Calder Memorial Trophy
Named to the 2012 NHL All-Star team

2009–10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 63 37 15 10 3,740 141 3 2.26 .924
2010–11 Detroit Red Wings NHL 63 37 17 5 3,615 168 2 2.79 .908
2011–12 Detroit Red Wings NHL 57 35 17 4 3,360 119 6 2.13 .920
NHL totals 192 110 54 19 11,172 449 11 2.41 .917

Just looking at stats alone and you can CLEARLY see he doesn't suck. Then watching the actual games he plays in, and seeing some of the incredible saves he pulls off. Not quite sure where that reasoning comes through.

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01-23-2013, 07:14 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
You can't come to the Stars board with reasonable arguments. It's like talking to a wall. Everybody here is an expert.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=28

When did you become so insufferably haughty?


Last edited by MetalGodAOD: 01-23-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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01-23-2013, 07:19 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=28

When did you become some insufferably haughty?
You beat me to it.

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01-23-2013, 07:31 PM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Or the ones who vehemently disagree with reasonable arguments. To claim that Jimmy Howard isn't a great goalie is just ridiculous.


Holds NCAA records for GAA(1.19) and save percentage(.954) – 2003–04.
Only NHL goalie to face a penalty shot in each of his first two games.
Named to the 2005–06 AHL All-Rookie team.
Named the 2009–2010 Detroit Red Wings Rookie of the Year in voting by the Detroit Sports Broadcasters Association.

Runner-up for the 2010 Calder Memorial Trophy
Named to the 2012 NHL All-Star team

2009–10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 63 37 15 10 3,740 141 3 2.26 .924
2010–11 Detroit Red Wings NHL 63 37 17 5 3,615 168 2 2.79 .908
2011–12 Detroit Red Wings NHL 57 35 17 4 3,360 119 6 2.13 .920
NHL totals 192 110 54 19 11,172 449 11 2.41 .917

Just looking at stats alone and you can CLEARLY see he doesn't suck. Then watching the actual games he plays in, and seeing some of the incredible saves he pulls off. Not quite sure where that reasoning comes through.
These mean next to nothing. Calder finalist doesn't mean a lot either.

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01-23-2013, 07:37 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
These mean next to nothing. Calder finalist doesn't mean a lot either.
Individually perhaps, but taken as a whole it shows a player who has excelled at various levels of hockey. Let's not act like we weren't happy when Bachman was having a stellar college career at CC.

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01-23-2013, 07:40 PM
  #697
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Turco was an absolute beast in Michigan with the Wolverines, was he not?

Think he still owns a NCAA record....or maybe that's Howard's now.

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01-23-2013, 07:44 PM
  #698
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Turco was an absolute beast in Michigan with the Wolverines, was he not?

Think he still owns a NCAA record....or maybe that's Howard's now.
He was a beast in college yeah, and he turned into a pretty damn good NHL goalie. I'm really hoping people remember the early/middle part of Turco's career and not his faded back half. Dude was a beast and a top 3-5 goalie during his prime, no question about it.

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01-23-2013, 07:47 PM
  #699
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I don't think anyone is arguing Howard is a bad goalie. They're just arguing he's not elite. Considering he's coming off of a sophomore slump into his 3rd year, I don't think that's a crazy sentiment.

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01-23-2013, 07:51 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=28

When did you become so insufferably haughty?
Context is everything sir.

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