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01-27-2013, 10:40 AM
  #301
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't believe Despres for Setoguchi is fair value at this point, but I do want to see change. Maybe overpaying to see if Setoguchi and Crosby have chemistry is worth it?

The question I have is: why not try Beau Bennett there before losing a major asset?
Minny would be paying for potential with Despres. We'd be paying for potential with Seto.

Established top 4 D-men aren't available. Just as goal scoring wingers are tough to come by.

Maybe we're seeing Lovejoy in the lineup the last couple games b/c the coaching staff wants to see how we look without Despres.

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01-27-2013, 10:41 AM
  #302
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How is Seto so much better than Kunitz or Dupuis? I think we are overvaluing Seto because he's not on our team... Seto's averaged 38 points for the last THREE years... he's not some elite player he's the same as Dupuis/Kunitz. Oh yeah, he's a veteran so he'll actually get ice time.

We used Gogo to get Neal. Everyone has consistently said we don't have to draft forwards because a good puck moving defensemen is worth a ton more. It doesn't seem like that with a straight Seto-> Despres swap. Maybe Coyle -> Despres

Our last few games have been horrible free goal passes and really bad team defense.
By last few, I assume you mean the last 25 or so.

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01-27-2013, 10:42 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Minny would be paying for potential with Despres. We'd be paying for potential with Seto.

Established top 4 D-men aren't available. Just as goal scoring wingers are tough to come by.

Maybe we're seeing Lovejoy in the lineup the last couple games b/c the coaching staff wants to see how we look without Despres.
That would be a more tolerable explanation than what actually is more likely the case.

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01-27-2013, 10:44 AM
  #304
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No, I'm assuming that one but not both of Kunitz and Dupuis should be in the top six, period.
I have no problem with bumping Duper down to the third line, Koon - Geno - Neal were beyond doubt the most dangerous line in the NHL the past season, I can't see anything wrong with reuniting them.

However, i won't cry if Dupuis stays with Sid and sid gets an upgrade on his LW. Frankly, I don't have a problem with Duper being a third wheel in the top 6.
Saying that he doesn't work with Sid is just silly. Yes there are better players, but you tell me a better, reasonable and available. RJ Umberger-esque? His contract is a bit hard to swallow though.

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01-27-2013, 10:45 AM
  #305
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I have no problem with bumping Duper down to the third line, Koon - Geno - Neal were beyond doubt the most dangerous line in the NHL the past season, I can't see anything wrong with reuniting them.

However, i won't cry if Dupuis stays with Sid and sid gets an upgrade on his LW. Frankly, I don't have a problem with Duper being a third wheel in the top 6.
Saying that he doesn't work with Sid is just silly. Yes there are better players, but you tell me a better, reasonable and available. RJ Umberger-esque? His contract is a bit hard to swallow though.
The upgrade, then, needs to be better than Seto or Umberger.

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01-27-2013, 10:49 AM
  #306
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Well, you're more of a pessimist then what i am, but I think Seto could rekindle his game here, like Neal. 60 - 70 points easy.

But what do i know, i want bobby ryan here. I would sell the farm for that guy.

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01-27-2013, 10:49 AM
  #307
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Despres alone is not going to get us a proven 60+ pt player who's not a rental. I'd hope the Pens scouts see how effective Seto would be here. RHS for the PP. Goal scoring instincts. Rocket shot. Great wheels. And someone who, like Neal, benefits more from having an elite center than a Kunitz or Dupuis.

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01-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Russo said the following today in his blog: :-)

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/188501841.html

short takes

Trade talk

With Pittsburgh eager to move Chris Kunitz back to a line with Evgeni Malkin and James Neal, the Penguins could be in the market for a right winger to skate with Sidney Crosby and Pascal Dupuis.One player who could foot the bill? The Wild's Devin Setoguchi. It's unclear if the Penguins are interested, but trading Setoguchi would create a spot for prospects Jason Zucker, Charlie Coyle or Johan Larsson.The Wild also could use another defenseman and, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, smooth-skating 6-4 defenseman Simon Despres, a 2009 Penguins first-rounder, could be trade bait.
NO thanks to Seto! I don't understand the big hype for him. He may not be Cheechoo #2 but he's not far from it. There's no upgrade with him.

Giving up on Despres for Seto is just ridiculous. Despres has shown flashes that he can become a solid top4 D. Our D needs more help than our top 6F.

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01-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Despres alone is not going to get us a proven 60+ pt player who's not a rental. I'd hope the Pens scouts see how effective Seto would be here. RHS for the PP. Goal scoring instincts. Rocket shot. Great wheels. And someone who, like Neal, benefits more from having an elite center than a Kunitz or Dupuis.
Seto would be effective here. The issue, thought, is that you'd still need to make another move by the deadline. You just can't have Kunitz AND Dupuis in the top six unless there's one elite playmaking winger in there (Neal is an excellent winger, but because of his shot, not his playmaking).

EDIT: If you're putting Kunitz back with Malkin and Neal, then you need better than Seto to counter the Dupuis effect OR you need that other move. That's where I'm at.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #310
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I think the trade is Niskanen or Despres for Seto + a lesser piece. Defense are at a premium and either of those deals is right out of the Shero playbook.

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01-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #311
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Setoguchi MAY be effective here. There's no way that's a given at this point. Not with how systematic our team plays now. Setoguchi is a one-way player. His defense is terrible. Personally, I wouldn't care as long as he scores a ton of goals, but he doesn't strike me as a Dan Bylsma player. So, we would be potentially losing a second blueline asset for nothing (after the Strait debacle).

As long as Dan Bylsma is our coach, this type of trade is very risky.

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01-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by AEKaki View Post
NO thanks to Seto! I don't understand the big hype for him. He may not be Cheechoo #2 but he's not far from it. There's no upgrade with him.

Giving up on Despres for Seto is just ridiculous. Despres has shown flashes that he can become a solid top4 D. Our D needs more help than our top 6F.
Orpik/Martin/Niskanen/Letang. That's our top 4. And a damn good one. Martin and Orpik are playing their best hockey in a Pens uniform. And Niskanen is playing significantly better than Michalek last year.

If anyone has doubts about Seto, they'll be put to rest very soon with him flanking Sid and playing the left wall on our PP.

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01-27-2013, 11:00 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Setoguchi MAY be effective here. There's no way that's a given at this point. Not with how systematic our team plays now. Setoguchi is a one-way player. His defense is terrible. Personally, I wouldn't care as long as he scores a ton of goals, but he doesn't strike me as a Dan Bylsma player. So, we would be potentially losing a second blueline asset for nothing (after the Strait debacle).

As long as Dan Bylsma is our coach, this type of trade is very risky.
Despres isn't a proven asset. He's a #5 on a contender this year at best. We have the depth to replace him.

To get a proven 20 goal guy in Seto for Despres is a no brainer IMO.

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01-27-2013, 11:00 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Seto would be effective here. The issue, thought, is that you'd still need to make another move by the deadline. You just can't have Kunitz AND Dupuis in the top six unless there's one elite playmaking winger in there (Neal is an excellent winger, but because of his shot, not his playmaking).

EDIT: If you're putting Kunitz back with Malkin and Neal, then you need better than Seto to counter the Dupuis effect OR you need that other move. That's where I'm at.
so let's assume the Pens can find 2 wingers (I don't think they can, but I want to ask a different question), at that point it feels like there is a decision to be made between keeping TK and Dupuis (one would be on the 3rd line, the other would be moved).

Who are you keeping and why, in that scenario?


As far as a Seto trade goes, I'd be vehemently against Niskanen for Seto straight up. Nisky has established himself as a bonafide top-4, and our 2nd-best overall Dman, if he goes, it's for an established top-6 guy.

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01-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Orpik/Martin/Niskanen/Letang. That's our top 4. And a damn good one. Martin and Orpik are playing their best hockey in a Pens uniform. And Niskanen is playing significantly better than Michalek last year.

If anyone has doubts about Seto, they'll be put to rest very soon with him flanking Sid and playing the left wall on our PP.
Knowing Bylsma, he won't be on our top PP, and even then he won't be on the left wall.

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01-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Seto would be effective here. The issue, thought, is that you'd still need to make another move by the deadline. You just can't have Kunitz AND Dupuis in the top six unless there's one elite playmaking winger in there (Neal is an excellent winger, but because of his shot, not his playmaking).

EDIT: If you're putting Kunitz back with Malkin and Neal, then you need better than Seto to counter the Dupuis effect OR you need that other move. That's where I'm at.
Kunitz/Malkin/Neal
Dupuis/Sid/Seto

That'll carry us in the regular season. But I agree that we could use a playmaking element next to Sid. At the very least, someone with size.

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01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Despres isn't a proven asset. He's a #5 on a contender this year at best. We have the depth to replace him.

To get a proven 20 goal guy in Seto for Despres is a no brainer IMO.
Dumoulin is looking pretty good in WBS, and he's another 6'4" guy in the same mold as Despres. I'd be perfectly fine moving Despres knowing he's there waiting in the near future. Well him, and 50 other defensive prospects.

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01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #318
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Knowing Bylsma, he won't be on our top PP, and even then he won't be on the left wall.
I'll be happy to have the chance to criticize DB. It will be interesting how our PP would look if we acquire a RHS.

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #319
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so let's assume the Pens can find 2 wingers (I don't think they can, but I want to ask a different question), at that point it feels like there is a decision to be made between keeping TK and Dupuis (one would be on the 3rd line, the other would be moved).

Who are you keeping and why, in that scenario?


As far as a Seto trade goes, I'd be vehemently against Niskanen for Seto straight up. Nisky has established himself as a bonafide top-4, and our 2nd-best overall Dman, if he goes, it's for an established top-6 guy.
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis (checking line)
Glass-Vitale-TK (energy line)

That's what I would do. But, we all know that won't happen unless it means a move for Craig Adams into the top 6.

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
so let's assume the Pens can find 2 wingers (I don't think they can, but I want to ask a different question), at that point it feels like there is a decision to be made between keeping TK and Dupuis (one would be on the 3rd line, the other would be moved).

Who are you keeping and why, in that scenario?


As far as a Seto trade goes, I'd be vehemently against Niskanen for Seto straight up. Nisky has established himself as a bonafide top-4, and our 2nd-best overall Dman, if he goes, it's for an established top-6 guy.
I'd keep Dupuis because he's a very good PK'er, and Kennedy isn't exactly stellar defensively. Plus Dupuis can play any forward position, while TK can only play RW.

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01-27-2013, 11:05 AM
  #321
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I'll be happy to have the chance to criticize DB. It will be interesting how our PP would look if we acquire a RHS.
I'll go with BAD.

Then again, I tend to be conservative/safe with my betting.

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01-27-2013, 11:05 AM
  #322
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I'll be happy to have the chance to criticize DB. It will be interesting how our PP would look if we acquire a RHS.
Well technically we have some now...

Niskanen has a good shot and can get open for one timers. Kennedy loves shooting the puck. Sutter is here now, and I'd love to see how he'd handle the duties (maybe not on the top PP just yet, but still).

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01-27-2013, 11:06 AM
  #323
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I'd keep Dupuis because he's a very good PK'er, and Kennedy isn't exactly stellar defensively. Plus Dupuis can play any forward position, while TK can only play RW.
This is where I am, as well. Along with Dupuis' ability to play with Sid if there's an injury.

I think it's someone moot, as I don't think the Pens will be able to acquire 2 top-6 guys during the season, and I think TK will want more (role/money) than the Pens will be able to give him this off-season.

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01-27-2013, 11:07 AM
  #324
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Well technically we have some now...

Niskanen has a good shot and can get open for one timers. Kennedy loves shooting the puck. Sutter is here now, and I'd love to see how he'd handle the duties (maybe not on the top PP just yet, but still).
Having Neal and Setoguchi to roam around and get lost in coverage with Sid and Geno feeding them would be nasty. Would have to take Kunitz off though.

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01-27-2013, 11:07 AM
  #325
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This is where I am, as well. Along with Dupuis' ability to play with Sid if there's an injury.

I think it's someone moot, as I don't think the Pens will be able to acquire 2 top-6 guys during the season, and I think TK will move on when his contract is up.
I'd be for moving TK in a deal considering this fact as well.

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