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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:48 AM
  #501
mpp9
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Despres is worth more than a mid 1st. He was a 1st round pick himself and has only improved his stock since. Being NHL ready and high upside? Yep.

If Shero is the GM we all think he is, he can convince a team in the midst of rebuilding looking for a future 2nd pairing D (who's ready for a #5 role now) to move expendable forwards. Moving Seto gives them a chance to give Coyle a shot. Clutterbuck is a 4th liner for them in the very near future.

I just don't see Shero moving Despres to a team that has such a perfect fit for our team in Clutterbuck and not getting him. He's a RFA at year's end. Cost controlled asset to replace Cooke/Kunitz.


Last edited by mpp9: 01-28-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old
01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Despres is worth more than a mid 1st. He was a 1st round pick himself and has only improved his stock since. Being NHL ready and high upside? Yep.

If Shero is the GM we all think he is, he can convince a team in the midst of rebuilding looking for a future 2nd pairing D (who's ready for a #5 role now) to move expendable forwards. Moving Seto gives them a chance to give Coyle a shot. Clutterbuck is a 4th liner for them in the very near future.

I just don't see Shero moving Despres to a team that has such a perfect fit or our team in Clutterbuck and not getting him. He's a RFA at year's end. Cost controlled asset to replace Cooke/Kunitz.
So Clutterbuck is going to be pushed down to the 4th line in Minny but he'll possibly be able to replace Kunitz here? Yeah I don't see how that makes any kind of sense. Of course it's not like he could produce like Lunitz anyways, AND he won't be traded.

I think Despres is fine but I'm not sure what "high" upside means. A pretty decent two way Dman avging 35-40 pts a year is his potential to me. I don't think you're getting the 10th pick overall for him though

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01-28-2013, 11:58 AM
  #503
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Clutterbuck would be a good acquisition. the future of the third-line isn't as certain as some believe. Cooke is 34 and a pending UFA. Dupuis is 33, a pending UFA and a fixture on Crosby's line. Kennedy is an RFA and Jeffery can't seem to get on the ice.

as to Kunitz, if he continues to play the way he has been, in a year or two he might be pushed to the third line depending on who Shero can actually get.

Winger1-Crosby-Bennett
Winger2-Malkin-Neal

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:58 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Despres is worth more than a mid 1st. He was a 1st round pick himself and has only improved his stock since. Being NHL ready and high upside? Yep.
Again you guys are talking about picks in terms of absolute value when that value doesn't exist in absolute terms. The value of pick 15 in 2011 ≠ the value in 2013 ≠*the value in 2015.

Are you saying, in this draft year which is supposed to be loaded with serious talent in the 1st round, that as the GM of a team about to miss the 2013 playoffs... who now has MORE chance to win the lottery than he did last year... more of a chance to get a very early pick even if not the #1 pick...

you are going to trade your Top 14 pick and "considerably MORE" (whatever that means)... for Despres... a guy with good upside who's played fewer than 30 NHL games but who probably could crack a decent number of lineups as a 5-6 D right now and who has a 50/50 shot at being a 3-4 D for the rest of his career (basically)??

You wouldn't last as a GM very long.

We tend to over-value our own studly D prospects around here and this is a pretty good example of it. Like I said a year from now Despres may have proven that he IS a steady 3-4 D with some decent offensive totals... at which time I'm sure some small number of teams would pay up with a mid-round 2014 1st round pick if they were in bad shape defensively. But this idea that he's without question worth substantially more than everyone's 1st round pick (seems to be what you're saying), is a little nuts. And if he IS worth that, we should be asking for more than Seto (but IMO he isn't and we won't, should he get traded). We'll get someone who is a steady 25G threat and that's about it. Today. Maybe in a year or two that price is much higher but... I dunno.

I'm just the Envoy of Joe... I could be crazy.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:00 PM
  #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Something like
Elmer + TK

for

Seto + 2013 3rd round pick
First off, Minnesota is already at the contract limit, so we'd have to take another contract back. Secondly, I'm not sure why they would want TK. I thought the thought behind potentially trading Seto was to upgrade D, shed salary and give one of their young forward prospects playing time. Third, why would we want to trade TK for what would essentially be a 3rd round pick? It's not as if that would improve our team.

If we wanted to pursue Setoguchi I think a straight swap with Despres would work, and Minnesota fans on the trade board also seemed to think such a trade could work. Personally I would like to see more of both players before I make up my mind, but the basis for a potential deal seems to be there.

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01-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #506
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First off, Minnesota is already at the contract limit, so we'd have to take another contract back. Secondly, I'm not sure why they would want TK. I thought the thought behind potentially trading Seto was to upgrade D, shed salary and give one of their young forward prospects playing time. Third, why would we want to trade TK for what would essentially be a 3rd round pick? It's not as if that would improve our team.

If we wanted to pursue Setoguchi I think a straight swap with Despres would work, and Minnesota fans on the trade board also seemed to think such a trade could work. Personally I would like to see more of both players before I make up my mind, but the basis for a potential deal seems to be there.
To the first part I was responding to the other poster's comment about including TK. I don't think MN has any interest in TK at all, or most other teams for that matter.

To the second I noted above a straight swap for Seto and Despres would probably work, if Seto was stuggling and if Despres was having a good year to that point. If Seto is lighting the lamp pretty regularly, IMO they won't trade him at all. Let alone for a D just getting his feet wet.

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01-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #507
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I'm a skeptical/pessimistic guy by nature, so maybe that's clouding my judgment. But I just have a feeling we're all going to be disappointed by the lack of additions, just like when we were convinced Parise was coming here in the summer and he ended up signing in Minnesota. Just like Jagr the year before.

We're penciling in guys like Devon Setoguchi or Chris Stewart on Sid's line, but when the playoffs roll around it will be Dupuis and Kunitz flanking him.

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01-28-2013, 12:07 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
So Clutterbuck is going to be pushed down to the 4th line in Minny but he'll possibly be able to replace Kunitz here? Yeah I don't see how that makes any kind of sense. Of course it's not like he could produce like Lunitz anyways, AND he won't be traded.

I think Despres is fine but I'm not sure what "high" upside means. A pretty decent two way Dman avging 35-40 pts a year is his potential to me. I don't think you're getting the 10th pick overall for him though
Despres projects to be a #2-3. With his tools, that's high upside.

Minnesota is loaded with forward talent. Clutterbuck and Seto aren't part of their longterm plans. Seto would be a huge upgrade for Sid, and Cluttebuck is a capable third wheel in the top 6. More so than Kennedy.

I'd offer Despres+TK.

CV, I don't claim to know this year's draft. But yes, I think Despres has considerable value. Much more so than he had when he was picked #30 in 09. No way would we be adding to get Seto.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:12 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I'm a skeptical/pessimistic guy by nature, so maybe that's clouding my judgment. But I just have a feeling we're all going to be disappointed by the lack of additions, just like when we were convinced Parise was coming here in the summer and he ended up signing in Minnesota. Just like Jagr the year before.

We're penciling in guys like Devon Setoguchi or Chris Stewart on Sid's line, but when the playoffs roll around it will be Dupuis and Kunitz flanking him.
I ain't pencilin' noBAHDY into this here raster. There's always a better chance that we won't get a big name player (or struggling big name player), than the chance that we will. It's the nature of the business.

IMO Ray should go for the gold and if he doesn't get it, toughen up the D a little and leave it at that, try again in the summer. Better to pay a higher price and get the sure thing (Clowe, Iginla, etc), than to pay a medium price for potential head cases like both Seto and Stewart are.

To the True Believers™* -- I know, I know. Stewart lost 20 lbs this summer. This must be a sign from God that his mind is healed and he's going to put up 30G a year for the rest of his career.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:26 PM
  #510
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Am i the only one thinking we COULD trade Malkin? Sure, we would give up the best player in the deal. But im starting to think that in some cases quantity might be better than quality.

We would downgrade @ center ofc. But Malkin should bring in a really good center, a good top 6 winger, a good prospect and a 1st.

i know we wont trade in division but example from NYI: Tavares, Okposo, Niederreiter, 1st

Or from a team like the Blues: Berglund, one of their 1 billion wingers (Perron, Tarasenko, Oshie), a 1st, and Schwartz

This is not saying any of theese teams would trade with us, but just laying out the framework.

Things this will do for us is spreading out the wealth so to say. The center we get back will make less money than Malkin (and ofc produce less) But we will also get better at the forward position while also strenghtening our farm.

I dont know, but sometimes i feel like we are wasting talent with not being able to provide our centers with good enough wingers.

Note; Im not saying we SHOULD trade Malkin, but this is just an idea ive been thinking of lately.
It's not a popular opinion, and will get shot down. But am not opposed to it off the cuff depending on the return. I also think that a deeper team will have more success (look at Boston or LA's forward depth).

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:34 PM
  #511
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I just don't get why he didn't take a flier on one of these Lattendrese or Mueller types that were available in the summer. There was nothing to lose by it. Couldn't have been worse than these Tangradi/Kennedy experiments.
Oh I know. That ticked me off too!! Those are win win type of deals.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:36 PM
  #512
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Clutterbuck would certainly be a Cooke esk replacement.

I would love to have him on Sutters wing.

Next year.

Kunitz, Crosby, Bennett
Kennedy/Dupuis, Malkin, Neal
Glass, Sutter, Clutterbuck
Tangradi/Kennedy, Vitale, Dupuis/Thompson

You all know Dupuis will be back. He's all hart.

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01-28-2013, 12:56 PM
  #513
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Stewart has 4 goals so far so I'd say he is off to a good start. I don't see St Louis dealing him or anyone else though. They are going to be in the West Finals IMO.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:57 PM
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Clutterbuck would certainly be a Cooke esk replacement.

I would love to have him on Sutters wing.

Next year.

Kunitz, Crosby, Bennett
Kennedy/Dupuis, Malkin, Neal
Glass, Sutter, Clutterbuck
Tangradi/Kennedy, Vitale, Dupuis/Thompson

You all know Dupuis will be back. He's all hart.
If that is our lineup next year, I'll be pissed off. Glass is not a 3rd line player.

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01-28-2013, 12:58 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
It's not a popular opinion, and will get shot down. But am not opposed to it off the cuff depending on the return. I also think that a deeper team will have more success (look at Boston or LA's forward depth).
Those teams have had no more or even less success than we have though

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01-28-2013, 01:04 PM
  #516
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Malkin's probably not going anywhere, and definitely not for another couple years until they're sure Crosby won't have head issues.

Think about it this way too: We wouldn't even have to entertain the idea for one single second if they would've just drafted one damn winger in the last 5 years that can play a little. Someone mentioned the Blues, man I wish we had their scouts. Off the top of my head it seems like they haven't missed a pick the last few years.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:30 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
If that is our lineup next year, I'll be pissed off. Glass is not a 3rd line player.
Spoiled is spoiled.

Do you want a third line who's considered a scoring line, or one that can shut down the other teams 1st line?

We haven't had one of those latter ones for some time now.

We do have two very capable scoring lines and the third is to help chip in here and there, but it's never really to be counted on for 1st/2nd line numbers.

You want your cake and eat it too.

Glass has played 3rd line before, as recent as last year. He's more than qualified.

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01-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #518
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Why isn't it realistic? I can buy that argument when we have a $4 million 3rd line center and a second pairing making $9 million but that is no longer the case.
Good points.

Shero cleaned House this summer, and did noting whit the cap space.

It boggles my mind that Semin isn't on this team right now on a one year deal.

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01-28-2013, 01:35 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Malkin's probably not going anywhere, and definitely not for another couple years until they're sure Crosby won't have head issues.

Think about it this way too: We wouldn't even have to entertain the idea for one single second if they would've just drafted one damn winger in the last 5 years that can play a little. Someone mentioned the Blues, man I wish we had their scouts. Off the top of my head it seems like they haven't missed a pick the last few years.
While I agree they are probably one of the best scouting/drafting teams the past 7 or 8 years, since the 2006 draft, they have had 10 first round and 11 2nd round picks. Thats a ton of higher picks. The great thing about the Blues is the never had a ton of top 10 picks. Most were in the 10-20 area, but they made the most out of them

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01-28-2013, 01:35 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
If that is our lineup next year, I'll be pissed off. Glass is not a 3rd line player.
I guess your pissed then because DB thinks he's SECOND LINE material...

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01-28-2013, 01:51 PM
  #521
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Despres + TK
For
Seto + Clutterbuck

SETO-SID-DUPER
KUNITZ-GENO-NEAL
COOKE-SUTTER-CLUTTERBUCK
GLASS-VITALE-ADAMS

Next year...

SETO-SID-BB
KUN-GENO-NEAL
TANGRADI-SUTTER-DUPER
COOKE-VITALE-CLUTTERBUCK

That 4th line would be ****!

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01-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Despres + TK
For
Seto + Clutterbuck

SETO-SID-DUPER
KUNITZ-GENO-NEAL
COOKE-SUTTER-CLUTTERBUCK
GLASS-VITALE-ADAMS

Next year...

SETO-SID-BB
KUN-GENO-NEAL
TANGRADI-SUTTER-DUPER
COOKE-VITALE-CLUTTERBUCK

That 4th line would be ****!
I like the trade and am one of the ones that thinks the value is there for both teams. Your next years roster has a pretty expensive 4th line tho. Clutter is makeing 1.5 and will get a slight raise and im sure Cooke wont take much less than his current 1.8

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01-28-2013, 02:01 PM
  #523
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I really think the pens should try and trade for a Iggy or Perry or Kessel type winger. My idea would be to package despres, maata our first this year and of needed second next year for one of them. Then after the season would buyout kunitz (think he still has years remaining) and use 6 to 7 million to sign our acquisition long term. Then bring up Bennett and Morrow for their entry level hits. Roll with our top 6 of Bennett, Crosby, Acquisition and Neal, Malkin, Dupuis. Third line would look like Jeffrey, Sutter, Cooke. And fourth of Vitale, Glass, whoever. The defense would be Nisky, Letang. Martin, Orpik. Engelland, Morrow. I think that is a solid bunch. Any criticism, oversight or advice?

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Shero cleaned House this summer, and did noting whit the cap space.

It boggles my mind that Semin isn't on this team right now on a one year deal.
Amen.

Each year it seems they wait for the perfect fit to come along as a free agent, and for whatever reason we (everyone from management to the fans) are all convinced that said perfect fit even wants to come to Pittsburgh in the first place. "We'll wait for Parise and go all-in. No way he won't take the money, chance at a cup, and stat-padding on a line with Sid." Now it's all-in on Iginla or Perry...and they won't come here, or we'll lose tons of assets to acquire one of them...unlikely.

Meanwhile a "fairly" skilled forward like Semin came at no cost to our asset pool on a relatively risk-free contract for a manageable cap hit...and nothing.

*Fine print - It's easy to say I don't know what the specifics were or whether management actually did go after Semin...but I think it's more than likely they barely made an effort.

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:16 PM
  #525
Le Magnifique 66
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Stewart has 4 goals so far so I'd say he is off to a good start. I don't see St Louis dealing him or anyone else though. They are going to be in the West Finals IMO.
Like I said when he was in the dog house last year it was the time to get him. Now I agree with you, they ain't dealing him no more especially with his low cap hit of 3 million

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