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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:29 PM
  #526
Rocket of Russia
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Like I said when he was in the dog house last year it was the time to get him. Now I agree with you, they ain't dealing him no more especially with his low cap hit of 3 million
To be fair, if St. Louis is smart, which they've demonstrated they are, they're not selling low on Stewart. The price for Stewart was likely still where it was originally, not necessariy what a similar current forward was worth producing the same statistically.

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01-28-2013, 02:47 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Spoiled is spoiled.

Do you want a third line who's considered a scoring line, or one that can shut down the other teams 1st line?

We haven't had one of those latter ones for some time now.

We do have two very capable scoring lines and the third is to help chip in here and there, but it's never really to be counted on for 1st/2nd line numbers.

You want your cake and eat it too.

Glass has played 3rd line before, as recent as last year. He's more than qualified.
No he's not. Most of the posts I read from Winnipeg fans said he struggled in a 3rd line role outside of crashing and banging. I want a balanced 3rd line with strong defensive ability and can chip in offensively. Jeffrey fits that role better than Glass.

I do want my cake and eat it too because I think it's perfectly reasonable to have. I'm not looking for a 50 point winger on the 3rd line, but certainly someone that can pot more 16 points as a career high.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:01 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
To be fair, if St. Louis is smart, which they've demonstrated they are, they're not selling low on Stewart. The price for Stewart was likely still where it was originally, not necessariy what a similar current forward was worth producing the same statistically.
Yep. He's now playing like a guy who could be a center piece to bring them Pietrangelo's partner. They have the depth to replace him.

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01-28-2013, 03:41 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Malkin's probably not going anywhere, and definitely not for another couple years until they're sure Crosby won't have head issues.

Think about it this way too: We wouldn't even have to entertain the idea for one single second if they would've just drafted one damn winger in the last 5 years that can play a little. Someone mentioned the Blues, man I wish we had their scouts. Off the top of my head it seems like they haven't missed a pick the last few years.
It appears that the Blues know how to draft offense AND defense. Seems like a novel concept, I know.

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01-28-2013, 03:51 PM
  #530
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It appears that the Blues know how to draft offense AND defense. Seems like a novel concept, I know.
I'm not sure what you're saying. You're allowed to draft both?

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01-28-2013, 03:54 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I'm not sure what you're saying. You're allowed to draft both?
Well technically all teams are except for the Pens. Uncle Gary had to balance out the fact that he rigged the lottery for us to get Crosby.

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01-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Well technically all teams are except for the Pens. Uncle Gary had to balance out the fact that he rigged the lottery for us to get Crosby.
Ohh, makes sense. Thanks Ron.

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01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #533
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Ohh, makes sense. Thanks Ron.
I report the news. Fair and balanced.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #534
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I wouldn't mind seeing Shero trading Despres for a young forward like Nino Neiderreiter or B Saad or Jaden Schwartz or even Colin Wilson.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:15 PM
  #535
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St Louis' entire defensive core is up for new contracts in a couple months. I'm curious to see how many they're able to keep, considering their money problems.

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01-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #536
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If Shero is indeed looking for the next Neal, he's looking at a guy whose rights we control so we can get him signed longterm, someone young enough who can grow with the team and most importantly, a proven goal scorer.

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01-28-2013, 04:28 PM
  #537
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I am probably in the minority here, but if we had to move Brandon Sutter in a deal for a talented scoring winger, I would. He's a good replacement for Jordan Staal, but he's not an impact third liner. We've lost that element, and so we need to compensate for that with another impact player in the top six.

I think we could survive with Jeffrey, Vitale, Adams, Holzapfel, Smith, Ph. Dupuis, Peters, Uher et al to cover for Sutter's absence. Short term anyway. We could always draft a center early in June for the long term. We could also use free agency to find another third-line center. It's easier to do than use UFA to find Sid a winger, that's for sure.

I'm not saying it'd be my first choice, but if Toronto (for example) would insist on Brandon Sutter in a Phil Kessel deal, I'd have to do it. I think Vitale replaces Sutter much more easily than anybody we have replacing what Kessel can do next to Sid.

That's just my two cents.

EDIT: OF COURSE, all of this is moot if Bylsma is still the coach.

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01-28-2013, 04:33 PM
  #538
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I want a talented winger flanking Sid as much as anyone. But you don't do it at the expense of Sutter. Makes no sense. We don't need an all star. I have faith we have the assets on defense to get Sid's Neal.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:33 PM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Think about it this way too: We wouldn't even have to entertain the idea for one single second if they would've just drafted one damn winger in the last 5 years that can play a little. Someone mentioned the Blues, man I wish we had their scouts. Off the top of my head it seems like they haven't missed a pick the last few years.
This brings me to sort of another annoyance I have. The belief is that the Pens do a good job of drafting and developing defensemen, thus why it makes sense they keep selecting defensemen with their high picks. Sort of stick to what they know and do best.

My issue is, how about instead they improve their ability to draft and develop forwards as well? That way they can actually take the BPA, not the BDA when their pick comes around. It really is night and day the difference between our defense prospects and forward prospects.

The Pens' current winger situation is a result of lack of drafting/development of top six winger prospects. This idea that if you stockpile defense prospects you can easily flip them into wingers is kind of silly, IMO. If it were that easy, we wouldn't have a need for this thread.

I just wish the Pens would actually improve on the area of forward drafting/development, rather than just hoard defensemen and hope a team is willing to pull another Neal for Goligoski deal to solve our inevitable winger shortfall.

We're constantly having to rely on another team wanting to make a deal, rather than just developing our own top six wingers and not having to rely on another team's whims.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:44 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I want a talented winger flanking Sid as much as anyone. But you don't do it at the expense of Sutter. Makes no sense. We don't need an all star. I have faith we have the assets on defense to get Sid's Neal.
If the only thing holding up a deal for Bobby Ryan was Sutter, I would help pack his bags. Something like Sutter + high end prospect + high pick.

I like what I have seen of Sutter, but it is much harder to find wingers of Ryan's ilk than a defensively responsible third line pivot. It would literally take one game of Ryan with Crosby for people to get over losing Sutter. Ryan is unreal.

We all know Shero won't trade Sutter, but from my own perspective I would rather have Ryan than Sutter by a large margin.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If the only thing holding up a deal for Bobby Ryan was Sutter, I would help pack his bags. Something like Sutter + high end prospect + high pick.

I like what I have seen of Sutter, but it is much harder to find wingers of Ryan's ilk than a defensively responsible third line pivot. It would literally take one game of Ryan with Crosby for people to get over losing Sutter. Ryan is unreal.

We all know Shero won't trade Sutter, but from my own perspective I would rather have Ryan than Sutter by a large margin.
I think we can get Ryan without having to deal Sutter. For a guy like Perry or Kessel, yeah then it makes sense.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:51 PM
  #542
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Bobby Ryan...sigh. Wouldn't he look good, eh? Alas, my sights are significantly lower.

One thing to remember about our scouts. It was widely reported that we wanted Tarasenko. It looks like they weren't wrong at all about him. I wish we would have made the Blues an offer they couldn't have refused at the time. I think had we included Chris Kunitz they'd have switched places with us on draft day.

That would have given us Tarasenko and an open spot for one of Tangradi, Bennett or Jeffrey...but instead of being 'Crosby's Neal', they would need to be Kunitz's replacement as a complement to one of the scoring lines. Pretty fascinating to think about:

Dupuis-Crosby-Tarasenko
Tangradi/Bennett/Jeffrey-Malkin-Neal

It's interesting to play the what-if game, but it is what it is.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:58 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If the only thing holding up a deal for Bobby Ryan was Sutter, I would help pack his bags. Something like Sutter + high end prospect + high pick.

I like what I have seen of Sutter, but it is much harder to find wingers of Ryan's ilk than a defensively responsible third line pivot. It would literally take one game of Ryan with Crosby for people to get over losing Sutter. Ryan is unreal.

We all know Shero won't trade Sutter, but from my own perspective I would rather have Ryan than Sutter by a large margin.
I'd take Sid/Stewart +Malkin/Neal with Sutter as our 3C over that scenario.

But I catch quite a few Ducks games. And Ryan is definitely one of the most talented players in the game. Insane one on one player. We'd have three guys who are equally as dangerous on the pass as the shot.

But Shero is committed to three strong centers. Not his style to abandon it.

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01-28-2013, 05:02 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'd take Sid/Stewart +Malkin/Neal with Sutter as our 3C over that scenario.

But I catch quite a few Ducks games. And Ryan is definitely one of the most talented players in the game. Insane one on one player. We'd have three guys who are equally as dangerous on the pass as the shot.

But Shero is committed to three strong centers. Not his style to abandon it.
Shero's 'style' is also Dupuis, Cooke, Glass, Kennedy, Talbot and Fedotenko as top-six wingers ad infinitum.

His style needs tweaking at the very least, if not full-scale abandonment.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:15 PM
  #545
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I wouldn't want bothered with trading Sutter. I think we can find a good winger to trade for without parting with him. I know his offense has been underwhelming at best so far through 5 games but you see some of those shutdown qualities. We still haven't allowed a 5 on 5 goal with Sutter on the ice.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
  #546
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Shero's 'style' is also Dupuis, Cooke, Glass, Kennedy, Talbot and Fedotenko as top-six wingers ad infinitum.

His style needs tweaking at the very least, if not full-scale abandonment.
He knows what he lost in Staal. He has a great shutdown center in Sutter. But the way we're built now, Sid and Geno need more talent around them. I'm confident that issue will be solved.

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01-28-2013, 06:02 PM
  #547
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Yea, i'm sorry but you don't win cups without guys like Sutter. He'd have to be the Staal of 08/09 defensively and he's very capable of that.

You can have all the talent in the world up front but you have to be able to stop the other teams scoring lines to win hockey games. Pure offense will get you no where.

Sutter will be an integral piece if we ever get a sniff at a Cup again imo.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:03 PM
  #548
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'd take Sid/Stewart +Malkin/Neal with Sutter as our 3C over that scenario.

But I catch quite a few Ducks games. And Ryan is definitely one of the most talented players in the game. Insane one on one player. We'd have three guys who are equally as dangerous on the pass as the shot.

But Shero is committed to three strong centers. Not his style to abandon it.
We are obviously just throwing out dream scenarios because Sutter won't be moved. That is obvious.

I would easily take Crosby/Ryan with Jeffrey as the third pivot than a player like Stewart and Sutter.

Ryan and Crosby would generate enough offense with Malkin/Neal that Jeffrey would just need to focus on shutting down the other team's top line.

Ryan and Crosby would be like video game ****. I also am quite confident in Jeffrey playing third pivot. It's his ideal role.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:07 PM
  #549
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Eh. I dunno if Jeffrey is a 3C on a contender.

But yes, Sid/Ryan would be nuts.

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01-28-2013, 06:13 PM
  #550
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Also if Kunitz gets where he needs to be theres no need for a winger for Sid this year. Just more jam on Defense and maybe in your bottom six.

I will say it's puzzling how Sid's current line torched the league just a few seasons ago compared to now. I attribute their decline to Sid needing to get back into the swing of things and the aging wings at his sides. I think Shero won't be desperate here to find a Neal for Sid this year but he may next year or if that perfect fit is out there. I imagine Ray is more worried about keeping pucks out of the net more than anything. Whether that means reshuffling the back end or getting rid of the coach or a combination of those.

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