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Old
01-28-2013, 11:47 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Johnson, Letestu and Strait are - it would seem - all model down to earth professionals who have done everything they possibly could to give themselves a chance at the NHL level.
I guess we should be so proud that we can groom 4th line forwards and bottom pairing dmen. Screw the bad attitude or talent, if you want to become a fringe NHL player, have Shero draft you.

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01-28-2013, 11:55 PM
  #602
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I don't know what they'd ask and I remember a couple people here saying he's a real dewsh off the ice (no idea about in the room but never heard any complaints coming out of Anaheim the way we did with Semin in Washington etc)... but I'd actually prefer Perry to Ryan.
After the lockout ended, I made a vow not to read anything more about the business side of hockey, so I have no idea whether he would be retainable given our cap constraints going forward. If he can, then good God would he be a dream solution on the wing. For anybody who hasn't watched him, this guy is "the real deal" - maybe he could steal that title from James Neal!

With regards to the character question, I worked for the Canadian men's hockey team during the 2010 Olympics and spent a decent amount of time around Perry. Nothing really notable about his personality one way or the other. Spent a lot of time with his family, pretty quiet...seemed to get along fine with Getzlaf (teammate in Anaheim) and the other guys I saw him interact with. I would suspect that any rumors about his personality - one way or the other - are overblown.

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01-29-2013, 12:08 AM
  #603
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When does everyone think the first significant trade if the goes down?

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01-29-2013, 12:12 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
If we want to pad ourselves on the back for having developed them.... I suppose we can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I guess we should be so proud that we can groom 4th line forwards and bottom pairing dmen. Screw the bad attitude or talent, if you want to become a fringe NHL player, have Shero draft you.
acknowledging a "modicum of competence" is a far cry from self-congratulatory back-patting. developing grinders and bottom-pairing defensemen is no great acomplishment, but at least they can do that. there are teams that aren't even able to pull off that modest feat and year-in-and-year-out they overpay for that level of talent.

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01-29-2013, 12:39 AM
  #605
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acknowledging a "modicum of competence" is a far cry from self-congratulatory back-patting.
I know. I agree. Just making the point that our organization is not responsible for players having inherent personal qualities and work ethic to be good pros. No one will or should credit our organization that Crosby is a work-a-holic and model professional off the ice.

At most you can enforce values that curtails/punishes bad habits, and with the guys we're talking about here, such concerns were never relevant.

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01-29-2013, 12:46 AM
  #606
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Don't forget about guys like Chad Johnson, Jake Muzzin, and Matt Moulsen too.

We might soon be able to add Tangradi and Jeffrey to that list as well.

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01-29-2013, 12:52 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I know. I agree. Just making the point that our organization is not responsible for players having inherent personal qualities and work ethic to be good pros. No one will or should credit our organization that Crosby is a work-a-holic and model professional off the ice.

At most you can enforce values that curtails/punishes bad habits, and with the guys we're talking about here, such concerns were never relevant.
fair enough.

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01-29-2013, 03:06 AM
  #608
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Montreal: Despres, Tangradi, 2nd Round Pick

Pittsburgh: Gionta

Bennett - Crosby - Gionta
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis/Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Dupuis/Cooke - Vitale - Glass

Adams / DJ


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Old
01-29-2013, 03:24 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Montreal: Despres, Tangradi, 2nd Round Pick

Pittsburgh: Gionta

Bennett - Crosby - Gionta
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis/Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Dupuis/Cooke - Vitale - Glass

Adams / DJ

Eh. I'd rather get someone younger. Tired of getting Sid his Billy Guerins and Geno his Ruslan Fedotenkos. Time to just go all out and get that damn wing for Sid and have our top 4 forwards locked in. For years. From there, everything falls into place. Hell, I'm even ok with Dupers being a 3rd wheel on the first line.

Despres/d-prospect, Bennett, 1st rounder for Bobby Ryan

Dupuis-Sid-Ryan
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
grinders
more grinders

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01-29-2013, 03:29 AM
  #610
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Eh. I'd rather get someone younger. Tired of getting Sid his Billy Guerins and Geno his Ruslan Fedotenkos. Time to just go all out and get that damn wing for Sid and have our top 4 forwards locked in. For years. From there, everything falls into place. Hell, I'm even ok with Dupers being a 3rd wheel on the first line.

Despres/d-prospect, Bennett, 1st rounder for Bobby Ryan

Dupuis-Sid-Ryan
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
grinders
more grinders
Ummm yeah no way in hell that package gets you Bobby Ryan, and further more trading BB is about one of the most damaging and counter productive things this organization can do for the future of this team and keeping player on this said team.

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01-29-2013, 03:29 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Montreal: Despres, Tangradi, 2nd Round Pick

Pittsburgh: Gionta
Holy overpayment!

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Old
01-29-2013, 03:38 AM
  #612
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Holy overpayment!
Perhaps slightly, but I am not trying to under value a guy in trades like 90% of HF board seem to do...

He just about hit 30 in 2010 & 2011 28 & 29 goals.

He is 34 years of age. While no spring chicken he still has about 3ish years of being very productive and still has another year on his contract after this short season.

He is the captain in MTL.

So all those things factored in I wouldn't mind paying this package one bit to MTL to get him on Sid's wing. I think he would fit in perfectly with Crosby's game.

You always have to give to get and I would be 100% fine doing this package.

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01-29-2013, 04:14 AM
  #613
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I'd puke if Shero gave that up for Brian Gionta.

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01-29-2013, 04:22 AM
  #614
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I'd puke if Shero gave that up for Brian Gionta.
Well what DO you think could realistically get Gionta out of MTL?!

Despres is really the one who is the center piece and the major part of the value in that deal.

Face it tangradi has no future on this team or in this organization, he holds very low value, with the hopes for MTL that a change of scenery would do him good.

Then is a 2nd rounder and the penguins can't really seem to draft a 2nd rounder to save their life. (Sans maybe one or two picks in the past what 10 years)

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01-29-2013, 04:41 AM
  #615
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Well what DO you think could realistically get Gionta out of MTL?!
Depends entirely on how Montreal are doing. If they are making the playoffs, you would likely need something like what you suggest, because otherwise they have no reason to.... and in that case it might not be enough as they have a very good D and thus don't value Despres like other teams would.

Ultimately Gionta is just not the right guy to go after unless Montreal are sellers, and in any event it is a bad team to target as a trade partner as they have enough D and are looking OK also as regards D prospects. We have very little they'd need and thus you'd have to overpay even more.

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01-29-2013, 05:01 AM
  #616
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Depends entirely on how Montreal are doing. If they are making the playoffs, you would likely need something like what you suggest, because otherwise they have no reason to.... and in that case it might not be enough as they have a very good D and thus don't value Despres like other teams would.

Ultimately Gionta is just not the right guy to go after unless Montreal are sellers, and in any event it is a bad team to target as a trade partner asthey have enough D and are looking OK also as regards D prospects. We have very little they'd need and thus you'd have to overpay even more.
Give it a game or two more until Markov get's hurt and starts to disintegrate like her does every year!

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01-29-2013, 05:12 AM
  #617
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Did anyone else see the Sharks/ VanCan game? I want Clowe ASAP.

Also what is a realistic package for Ryan? Sutter, Despres and a 1st...

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01-29-2013, 05:13 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Well what DO you think could realistically get Gionta out of MTL?!

Despres is really the one who is the center piece and the major part of the value in that deal.

Face it tangradi has no future on this team or in this organization, he holds very low value, with the hopes for MTL that a change of scenery would do him good.

Then is a 2nd rounder and the penguins can't really seem to draft a 2nd rounder to save their life. (Sans maybe one or two picks in the past what 10 years)
I don't know and I don't care what it'd realistically take to get Gionta. I wouldn't overpay to get him and I doubt Shero would either.

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01-29-2013, 06:35 AM
  #619
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Ummm yeah no way in hell that package gets you Bobby Ryan, and further more trading BB is about one of the most damaging and counter productive things this organization can do for the future of this team and keeping player on this said team.
I know it would never get him I had no idea where to start. I guess like someone said Sutter, a d prospect, and a 1st. Which I would still very much like.

But I am tired of hearing about the future. Bobby Ryan is 25, how much younger do you want? Everything has been 'wait til the future, next year when everyone is healthy, blah blah.' At SOME point, you have to say the future is NOW. Great, so Sid is 30 by the time Bennett is finally coming around? Fantastic.. Geno/Neal are going to be together for the next 7-8 years producing great numbers. Sid needs that someone he can get chemistry with and dominate with for years.

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01-29-2013, 06:44 AM
  #620
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On the subject of BB, my initial thinking was that I would be extremely reluctant to trade BB since he seems like the only legitimate top 6 prospect in our system. That's still my position.

But on the flip side, that same thinking could cause you to overvalue him too. You still need to assess his value objectively whether he's our only guy or one of several. For example, the kid's seeming inability to stay healthy looks like a red flag to me. If you actually could use him as a piece to get back somebody like Bobby Ryan (i.e., a multi-year solution as opposed to a rental) you definitely need to be open to it.

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01-29-2013, 08:20 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Well what DO you think could realistically get Gionta out of MTL?!

Despres is really the one who is the center piece and the major part of the value in that deal.

Face it tangradi has no future on this team or in this organization, he holds very low value, with the hopes for MTL that a change of scenery would do him good.

Then is a 2nd rounder and the penguins can't really seem to draft a 2nd rounder to save their life. (Sans maybe one or two picks in the past what 10 years)
I don't want Gionta so this is a waste of time. He is their captain and they have little incentive to move him now unless overpayment.

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01-29-2013, 09:38 AM
  #622
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Ahhh but if your professional services are sought after by many, you can pick and choose where one wants to apply thier trade.
Not if you're being traded. As a free agent, sure, but even then, going to play for your home team probably isn't the top of many player's lists. It'd be nice, sure. By no means a deal breaker. If a the Pens offered any kid who grew up in Philly a contract, I very highly doubt that they would think, "No way, Shero...Go Flyers!"

We were also specifically talking about Bobby Ryan, who is under contract and has no sort of clause to his contract. If Anaheim wanted to trade him to Pittsburgh, he wouldn't be able to say no, even if has this hypothetical love for the Flyers and refuses to play for any of their rivals.

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01-29-2013, 10:48 AM
  #623
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On the subject of BB, my initial thinking was that I would be extremely reluctant to trade BB since he seems like the only legitimate top 6 prospect in our system. That's still my position.

But on the flip side, that same thinking could cause you to overvalue him too. You still need to assess his value objectively whether he's our only guy or one of several. For example, the kid's seeming inability to stay healthy looks like a red flag to me. If you actually could use him as a piece to get back somebody like Bobby Ryan (i.e., a multi-year solution as opposed to a rental) you definitely need to be open to it.
Exactly. People were so against trading Tangradi in the past because he was basically a shoe in for the top 6. Prospects are prospects. Beau Bennett didn't even put up great numbers in college but yet people want him to play in the top 6 after like 40 games in the AHL? And you are right, he is very injury prone. If you can get a player that is ready now, trade for him. I just don't understand Shero's plan. It took 7 years for Whitney and gogo from the time they were drafted until they were NHL regulars that interested other teams. Who knows how long some of these dmen will take to develop enough to trade, Malkin as Sid will be in their mid 30s

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01-29-2013, 11:26 AM
  #624
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Exactly. People were so against trading Tangradi in the past because he was basically a shoe in for the top 6. Prospects are prospects. Beau Bennett didn't even put up great numbers in college but yet people want him to play in the top 6 after like 40 games in the AHL? And you are right, he is very injury prone. If you can get a player that is ready now, trade for him. I just don't understand Shero's plan. It took 7 years for Whitney and gogo from the time they were drafted until they were NHL regulars that interested other teams. Who knows how long some of these dmen will take to develop enough to trade, Malkin as Sid will be in their mid 30s
Hopefully one of these guys will break through and be ready in a couple years rather than five. I thought that was Morrow but whatever.

The problem is, as it has been for awhile, our most attractive prospects are not necessarily as attractive as the league's best prospects. In other words Despres and Bennett are good prospects, but they're not center pieces. Now we're into trading roster players, which we don't have to trade.

Shero will do everything he can but I'm bracing myself for the hate post-deadline when he can't do anything. Some of it will be rational but a lot of it won't.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:30 AM
  #625
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Perhaps our best hope is that the trade target has a full NMC and presents a short list of approved destinations, where the Pens are able to muster the best package among that small group, ala Rick Nash to the Rangers.

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