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Old
02-01-2013, 09:41 PM
  #826
Crafton
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Martin will be long gone by the time Geno/Tanger's contracts count against the cap.

Who would you rather keep this season? Martin or Niskanen.
call it an affectation but i find Niskanen's so called ability to comfortably mesh with a star (Zubov, Letang) to be a highly desirable trait. then again, Despres has about 8 games during which he can render that chemistry superfluous.


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02-01-2013, 09:41 PM
  #827
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Martin because I think he plays a bigger role. Letang is our lowest maintenance D-Man even with his early season slump. A lot of guys can look good next to him. Martin is being asked to play a shutdown role and so far is doing very well with it.
Cost factor going forward says Martin is the one that needs to go. Has nothing to do about roles. Think cap.

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02-01-2013, 09:46 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Cost factor going forward says Martin is the one that needs to go. Has nothing to do about roles. Think cap.
He said this season though. I don't see Martin being traded this season. I guess I could see Niskanen traded during this season if Despres plays really well and supplants him next to Letang. I'm not saying the latter is likely but I find it more plausible.

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02-01-2013, 09:53 PM
  #829
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Thing is though, are we comfortable enough having both Niskanen and Martin gone by summer of 2014.

Personally, I keep Niskanen. He's still getting better, he can play both sides effectively and has played well with everyone he's paired with. He also has that urgency and grit to his game. I'd trust him more in the playoffs.

Don't see why we can't slot Niskanen with Orpik. Despres with Letang.

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02-01-2013, 09:54 PM
  #830
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He said this season though. I don't see Martin being traded this season. I guess I could see Niskanen traded during this season if Despres plays really well and supplants him next to Letang. I'm not saying the latter is likely but I find it more plausible.
I see, then I'd say neither. Despres would have to be lights out the rest of the way, and I don't see him putting it completely together this season enough to get us through this year and this years playoffs in the top 4, maybe in the bottom pairing, but like I said if he's lights out then who knows.

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02-01-2013, 09:55 PM
  #831
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Anyone see Ryder's goal tonight? I'm not the biggest fan of him, but god damn that release is sexy.

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02-01-2013, 09:57 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Thing is though, are we comfortable enough having both Niskanen and Martin gone by summer of 2014.

Personally, I keep Niskanen. He's still getting better, he can play both sides effectively and has played well with everyone he's paired with. He also has that urgency and grit to his game. I'd trust him more in the playoffs.

Don't see why we can't slot Niskanen with Orpik. Despres with Letang.
It really doesn't matter about the pairings other than do they all compliment each other on the individual pairings.


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Anyone see Ryder's goal tonight? I'm not the biggest fan of him, but god damn that release is sexy.
Been wanting him since he was with Boston.

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02-01-2013, 09:57 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Thing is though, are we comfortable enough having both Niskanen and Martin gone by summer of 2014.

Personally, I keep Niskanen. He's still getting better, he can play both sides effectively and has played well with everyone he's paired with. He also has that urgency and grit to his game. I'd trust him more in the playoffs.

Don't see why we can't slot Niskanen with Orpik. Despres with Letang.
All of that's very plausible. I don't think either will be traded this season and I think Martin is more likely to be dealt in the off-season than Niskanen. I just can't see breaking up a shutdown pair that's playing well during the season so I think Martin is here until the summer.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:10 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Let me put it this way. Iginla controls where he goes, (NMC) and he probably has a few places in mind should he choose to leave, but when he does choose that one team essentially closes off bidding wars. It's the old saying, why hamper the club you're now going to try and win a cup with.

Shero might be tough when it comes to trading, but he'll do a fair hockey trade.

One of our top prospects of their choosing minus, Despres(we need him right now), Tangradi, 1st 2013.

Why not try for Iginla & Babchuk package? Babchuk is nearing return from his shoulder injury. Maybe a throw in? Losing Tangradi opens the spot for, Iginla, and Despres can be sent down once Niskanen is back, and they waive, Lovejoy.

Babchuk is UFA after this season so he won't effect any of their key signings this up coming season after this one. We're talking bottom pairing here for depth.
I highly doubt Iginla will pick just one team. If he wants to go for a cup he will most likely let Feaster shop him to the top few teams in each conference. He is all class and will not handcuff Feaster into just trading with 1 team.

You can probably have Babchuk for free. He sucked last year. The only asset he has is his shot from the point and he wasnt even using that.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:18 PM
  #835
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i want Vrbata, but maybe that's cause he just scored in the shootout.

Jagr wins it!

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:42 PM
  #836
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Is Wilson still in Trotz's doghouse though? If so, he could be an option.

Apparently, No. He's playing extremely well but it is no showing on the scoring sheet.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:47 PM
  #837
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St. Louis has way too many top 6 wingers. They will obviously keep Oshie and tarasenko but I want one of these players (in order of preference):

1) David Perron (oh my god he and Sid would be so sick)
2) Alex Steen
3) jaden Schwartz
4) Chris Stewart

Any one of those guys would be amazing. Any chance?

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:54 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Anyone see Ryder's goal tonight? I'm not the biggest fan of him, but god damn that release is sexy.
He's not a grinder. Bylsma would probably give him the Sykora treatment, then eventually healthy scratch him when Ryder doesn't produce 20 goals from the 4th line, getting 9 minutes a night next to Tanner Glass and Craig Adams.

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02-02-2013, 12:42 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Does he wanna be Ray Bourque? Perhaps. But so far, there has been no evidence that either side is ready to move on.

So, it remains a pipe dream.
It'll be a pipe dream until he resigns.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:46 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Rather than start a new thread about it, let me ask this here:

Even if ZB works out - and he's obviously going to turn into a 70-pt winger - Pens still need one more top-6 winger in my opinion. That's likely going to come from moving a Dman, so who would you prefer to move?

Martin, Niskanen, Despres, Morrow, DP, Harrington, or Dumoulin?
Maatta or Dumoulin. Although I'm high on Dumoulin and want to see what he can become while a member of the Pens.

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02-02-2013, 12:58 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
Im starting to get worried, next year we will only have 4 million in cap space to sign letang, malkin and get top 4 defencemen/wingers.. We could trade martin or orpik but that would just make us a weaker team.
What are you smoking!?

Next year we have 15 players signed (including Letang and Malkin) and 11.5m in cap space. The following year we have 4 players signed (MAF, Sid, Neal, Martin) and 40.6m in cap space (assuming it doesn't go up).

Now where's the issue resigning Malkin and Letang?

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:11 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by typicryptic View Post
St. Louis has way too many top 6 wingers. They will obviously keep Oshie and tarasenko but I want one of these players (in order of preference):

1) David Perron (oh my god he and Sid would be so sick)
2) Alex Steen
3) jaden Schwartz
4) Chris Stewart

Any one of those guys would be amazing. Any chance?
Steen is probably the realistic guy. But would love to see Perron or Stewart here.

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:36 AM
  #843
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While looking at winger trade targets on teams bound to play a role in the playoffs, perhaps we could consider an alternative return from what we usually do...

How about we include Cooke or even Dupuis in the conversation? They are affordable and come off good seasons, are well established penalty killers and will be UFA's after this season (ie. either we get to overpay to keep them or we let them go for nothing).

I suppose right now one could say Kunitz also, but if/when he turns it around he is just a superior top6 option to Dupuis (otherwise we'd be creating a hole), and to some teams him being under contract for another year is an issue due to the cap-drop next year.

Say St.Louis will deal us Stewart because he is not really a third line forward nor particularly great defensively, they would obviously lose some offensive punch, but in getting Cooke for instance they would gain some on the defensive side and on the PK (also an experienced cup winner), whereas what they're losing they really have in great measure already.
Then one can add a good defensive prospect they can have long term use for like Dumoulin, and perhaps a 2nd rounder. Don't know if this is enough, but just to give an idea.

Because of the roster limit, I would rather give up a somewhat redundant established forward + futures in exchange for a top 6 forward than having to give up young cheap assets for very little (or free through waivers).

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02-02-2013, 01:38 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
While looking at winger trade targets on teams bound to play a role in the playoffs, perhaps we could consider an alternative return from what we usually do...

How about we include Cooke or even Dupuis in the conversation? They are affordable and come off good seasons, are well established penalty killers and will be UFA's after this season (ie. either we get to overpay to keep them or we let them go for nothing).

I suppose right now one could say Kunitz also, but if/when he turns it around he is just a superior top6 option to Dupuis (otherwise we'd be creating a hole), and to some teams him being under contract for another year is an issue due to the cap-drop next year.

Say St.Louis will deal us Stewart because he is not really a third line forward nor particularly great defensively, they would obviously lose some offensive punch, but in getting Cooke for instance they would gain some on the defensive side and on the PK (also an experienced cup winner), whereas what they're losing they really have in great measure already.
Then one can add a good defensive prospect they can have long term use for like Dumoulin, and perhaps a 2nd rounder. Don't know if this is enough, but just to give an idea.

Because of the roster limit, I would rather give up a somewhat redundant established forward + futures in exchange for a top 6 forward than having to give up young cheap assets for very little (or free through waivers).
Or what about Tyler Kennedy?

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02-02-2013, 01:44 AM
  #845
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Or what about Tyler Kennedy?
Sure, him also.
But unlike the other two, he will still be an asset after this season what with being RFA. Also, I think he is less redundant than the others going forward and will remain key to us having a third line with some offense because he is pretty much the only bottom6 forward we have who can carry the puck in. Doesn't change that he is/should be in play also.

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02-02-2013, 01:48 AM
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
While looking at winger trade targets on teams bound to play a role in the playoffs, perhaps we could consider an alternative return from what we usually do...

How about we include Cooke or even Dupuis in the conversation? They are affordable and come off good seasons, are well established penalty killers and will be UFA's after this season (ie. either we get to overpay to keep them or we let them go for nothing).

I suppose right now one could say Kunitz also, but if/when he turns it around he is just a superior top6 option to Dupuis (otherwise we'd be creating a hole), and to some teams him being under contract for another year is an issue due to the cap-drop next year.

Say St.Louis will deal us Stewart because he is not really a third line forward nor particularly great defensively, they would obviously lose some offensive punch, but in getting Cooke for instance they would gain some on the defensive side and on the PK (also an experienced cup winner), whereas what they're losing they really have in great measure already.
Then one can add a good defensive prospect they can have long term use for like Dumoulin, and perhaps a 2nd rounder. Don't know if this is enough, but just to give an idea.

Because of the roster limit, I would rather give up a somewhat redundant established forward + futures in exchange for a top 6 forward than having to give up young cheap assets for very little (or free through waivers).
There's not a single veteran grinder on this roster that I wouldn't give up in a heartbeat if it meant acquiring a (potential) long term solution for our top six winger problem. If Cooke, Dupuis, or even Kunitz were part of the asking price to land one of these young scoring wingers that have been talked about in this thread, I'd be more than happy to see them gone.

What they bring to the table, while it obviously has some value, is a lot easier to replace than what a legitimate top six winger brings. So I'd hope Ray would never turn down a deal if it meant parting with one of them.

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02-02-2013, 06:36 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Sure, him also.
But unlike the other two, he will still be an asset after this season what with being RFA. Also, I think he is less redundant than the others going forward and will remain key to us having a third line with some offense because he is pretty much the only bottom6 forward we have who can carry the puck in. Doesn't change that he is/should be in play also.
I think of the 3, Cooke and Dupuis hold very similar value for me. I think with TK, he becomes redundant because if we can fill out a top 6, ideally, Dupuis and Cooke will be 3rd liners, because you'd then have a pure shutdown line that has some scoring ability. So you then have a guy making over 2 million on the 4th line.

I also think that Kennedy's RFA status could work in our benefit as that adds more value to him as he's cost controlled.

Say we straight up trade him for a guy like Stewart (which I have no idea if it'd be enough, as I'm not sure if STL really needs anything on their team)...

Stewart-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Jeffrey/Adams

I think it's well balanced, and each line fills the role that DB likes it to fill. People will probably not believe Bennett will be ready next season, but I definitely think he'll stick next season.

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02-02-2013, 07:51 AM
  #848
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Maatta or Dumoulin. Although I'm high on Dumoulin and want to see what he can become while a member of the Pens.
Agree. I have been to a handful of W-B games this year and focused on him more than others. He has the tools, IQ, size, and ability to be a steal from the Canes. Good college program. He is not as flashy as DP and JM but I really would like to give him a year. He can become the defense first stopper we so badly need.

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Old
02-02-2013, 08:28 AM
  #849
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Just wondering, can an injured player (minor injory like Niskanen) be traded?

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Old
02-02-2013, 08:48 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I think of the 3, Cooke and Dupuis hold very similar value for me. I think with TK, he becomes redundant because if we can fill out a top 6, ideally, Dupuis and Cooke will be 3rd liners, because you'd then have a pure shutdown line that has some scoring ability. So you then have a guy making over 2 million on the 4th line.

I also think that Kennedy's RFA status could work in our benefit as that adds more value to him as he's cost controlled.

Say we straight up trade him for a guy like Stewart (which I have no idea if it'd be enough, as I'm not sure if STL really needs anything on their team)...

Stewart-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Jeffrey/Adams

I think it's well balanced, and each line fills the role that DB likes it to fill. People will probably not believe Bennett will be ready next season, but I definitely think he'll stick next season.
The only forward that the Blues might have any interest in in a deal for Stewart would be Brandon Sutter.

We have plenty of penalty killing forwards, and we currently have 7 scoring line wingers (Stewart, Perron, Oshie, Tarasenko, McDonald, Schwartz & D'Agostini). Next season Steen might move back to wing (if we sign Lehterä) and Jaškin or Rattie might be deemed ready for NHL action as well.

Taking a winger in return just doesn't make any sense for the Blues.

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