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Old
02-03-2013, 02:00 AM
  #876
Jaded-Fan
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How about asking Phlly fans about how easy it is to find a goalie worth anything.

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02-03-2013, 02:08 AM
  #877
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Yeah, I actually like having two legitimate options in net now. I don't want to go back to only having one again because when that one falters you get left with no one to turn to like we did last playoffs against Philly.

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02-03-2013, 08:09 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
How about asking Phlly fans about how easy it is to find a goalie worth anything.
exactly. If you have a guy that can be even average long term, you keep him until you have a replacement who can be the same or better.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:15 AM
  #879
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St. Louis has way too many top 6 wingers. They will obviously keep Oshie and tarasenko but I want one of these players (in order of preference):

1) David Perron (oh my god he and Sid would be so sick)
2) Alex Steen
3) jaden Schwartz
4) Chris Stewart

Any one of those guys would be amazing. Any chance?

People throw words like amazing around too much in these threads, thinking that something new automatically = something very successful. For the most part, the players that would = automatic success (more or less) are the ones we'll have to pay a big price for. Perry, Ryan, et al.


Perron - definitely has skills and would be an upgraded version of Kunitz basically. Much better with the puck but less physical also. Had some injury problems of late. Not sure if was one-time thing or recurring thing.

Steen - good goal scoring touch but he's streaky as hell and has had problems (even playing around good players) surpassing Kunitz levels of production. Also he's injury prone. He's not much of an upgrade because when he's not helping the team score he doesn't bring much else, unlike a guy like Neal or Kunitz who will get in there and do some dirty work. As someone said he's probably the most likely (but not much to get excited about).

Schwarz - they're not going to trade that kid this early in his career. In any case I'm not convinced based on what I've seen so far this year that he's ready to be a big impact guy yet, the way Tarasenko obviously is. If the goal is "win now", we'd be better off over-paying for Tarasenko.

Stewart - anything but a sure thing. His biggest trait is the risk he carries in giving up decent assets for him. Showing some signs of growing up this year but I wouldn't trade any asset of significant value for him yet. He potted 4G early this year (including 2 in the season-opening stinker against a very rusty Red Wings team) but his physical game is not there yet this year and gives every sign of continuing to be the over-rated, inconsistent player he has been the last couple years. He's not worth it unless we can get him for cheap (which I don't put it past Shero -- so if he can pull it off, great... )


To me we ought to limit our discussions to teams who are either:

a) struggling, with skill wingers to spare
b) doing well, with skill wingers to spare
b) doing pretty well but still lacking depth in a big way on the blue line

[On the face of it that would mean STL but not as great an option unless we're willing to pay a real price, to get a real asset IMO. But maybe not out of the question are Edmonton, Anaheim, Chicago, Buffalo.]


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 02-03-2013 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Clarified last bit
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Old
02-03-2013, 10:25 AM
  #880
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you know who struggled to put up Kunitz levels of production before he came here? James Neal. Points at least. Neal always had more goals but still.

Just sayin

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
  #881
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you know who never had that much better than Kunitz levels of production before he came here? James Neal.

Just sayin

Yah but there was no question even when he was in Dallas, watching his better games... that Neal was a more dangerous player / had more potential than someone like Alex Steen. It's true you can make that "20G argument" about a lot of good players historically but I don't think there's much question here about STLs "veteran" talent in that regard. Steen is never going to be James Neal. Perron has an outside shot of being as productive as Neal IMO. Tarasenko OTOH, were we to pay the price for him, would likely be as good or better than Neal long-term.

It's all about the payment. If we're willing to part with a really valuable asset, we can get an Oshie or a Tarasenko. If not, we're going to get (from a team like STL anyway) someone like Steen. A guy who will excel at times, but more often frustrate fans because the skill is there sometimes but it doesn't translate. Unlike with guys like Kunitz or TK where we know the skill really is not there to begin with, and we except over-achievement because we (hypothetically or in reality) put them on a line with Sid.

This might be the year to trade the 1st round pick, given the draft strength and increased chances of a lottery pick, should we miss the playoffs. But you have to make that trade earlier when it's not 100% clear if we'll make the playoffs based on simple math. If there's a chance we get a top 10 pick because of injury problems and missing the show... that pick becomes hugely valuable vs. it being a #27 pick or whatever.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 02-03-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
  #882
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Yah but there was no question even when he was in Dallas, watching his better games... that Neal was a more dangerous player / had more potential than someone like Alex Steen. It's true you can make that "20G argument" about a lot of good players historically but I don't think there's much question here about STLs "veteran" talent in that regard. Steen is never going to be James Neal. Perron has an outside shot of being as productive as Neal IMO. Tarasenko OTOH, were we to pay the price for him, would likely be as good or better than Neal long-term.

It's all about the payment. If we're willing to part with a really valuable asset, we can get an Oshie or a Tarasenko. If not, we're going to get (from a team like STL anyway) someone like Steen. A guy who will excel at times, but more often frustrate fans because the skill is there sometimes but it doesn't translate. Unlike with guys like Kunitz or TK where we know the skill really is not there to begin with, and we except over-achievement because we (hypothetically or in reality) put them on a line with Sid.

This might be the year to trade the 1st round pick, given the draft strength and increased chances of a lottery pick, should we miss the playoffs. But you have to make that trade earlier when it's not 100% clear if we'll make the playoffs based on simple math. If there's a chance we get a top 10 pick because of injury problems and missing the show... that pick becomes hugely valuable vs. it being a #27 pick or whatever.
I don't think we could get Tarasenko with anything short of Letang right now. I remember Oshie running some guys over last year when we played them, but I doubt they want to move him and I doubt we want to overpay the price to get him either. As for the rest of their players, I have never watched the blues enough to really know the specifics of them.

As far as the 1st round pick goes, it should definitely be in play this year. And based on our history, our 2nd round pick should be in play every year.

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02-03-2013, 10:53 AM
  #883
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Ogre: Yah you're absolutely right that they don't want to move either Oshie or Tarasenko... hence we'd have to pay a big price. IOW they know they have to depth to get away with it, but they're still going to make someone pay a big price if they do it. I think it could be done without Letang being involved but certainly one of our Top D and maybe our 1st would be involved.

Orpik and a 1st maybe, Martin and a 1st. Hard to say. The price would be pretty steep but sometimes it's worth it. I think this is the year Shero might pay a steep price for someone, including that 1st. Mostly on account of Despres and Bortuzzo hopefully giving him the confidence that he can move a top D and not hurt himself too badly in the process. Whether it's Perry or Oshie or whoever it is. It will be someone who fits our system and can consistent put up 60 or 70 pts a year. Maybe more. Just have that hunch. Because he's about tried every other method at the deadline /FA.

The one thing he hasn't done, is pay a premium for a top player. The ole "gave up a lot but got the best player in the deal and plugged a big gap in his lineup" situation. And like I said... sometimes it makes sense if you have the depth.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 02-03-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:57 AM
  #884
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Yeah, Tarasenko is truly untouchable for the Blues.

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02-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #885
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Yeah, Tarasenko is truly untouchable for the Blues.
If he isn't now he will be soon. He's an overpayment candidate for sure.

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02-03-2013, 11:02 AM
  #886
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Minnesota called up Charlie Coyle for Monday night's game to replace Matt Cullen who's day to day. Once Cullen returns sometime during next week, they'll have to send Coyle back down unless they can create a roster spot for him. Spurgeon was put on IR but is expected to come back shortly. There's lots of contraversy in Minny about Seto's & Granlund's performance thus far and some on the Minny board wouldn't be surprised if Seto is the odd man out for a draft choice. No way Granlund is being moved but he may be sent down to Houston. Apparently, Zucker has been outplaying Coyle but he's a different type of forward and they wanted a PF so they can add some size up front, which they desperately need (as per Russo).

Just got me thinking that there's potential for a move with them given that Zach Phillips (who the Pens were high on during his draft year) is also being scratched in Houston and would be a really nice fit in our organization. Lots of potential fur us being good trade partners. Phillips & Seto would fill a few needs. Hurts to say this but Despres would be ideal for them too given that he can be sent down to Houston for them making room for one of Coyle or Zucker in the big leagues. They're at the 50 contract limit, by the way.

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02-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #887
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I like MN "yoots" but not sure (like Schwartz in STL, Hubes in FLA) if any are ready to make an impact this year at the NHL level. I've only seen a couple games and some highlights from those teams but other than Tarasenko all have slowed after a hot start. Also, Coyle is a natural C isn't he?

What are your impressions (for those who've watched them more)? Obviously for the future it would be great to have one of those guys, but are they going to make an impact at the NHL level during the playoff crush and series? Are you guys as armchair GMs / fans wanting to make a trade that hurts our depth this year but makes us more dangerous next year and the year after?

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02-03-2013, 11:23 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I like MN "yoots" but not sure (like Schwartz in STL, Hubes in FLA) if any are ready to make an impact this year at the NHL level. I've only seen a couple games and some highlights from those teams but other than Tarasenko all have slowed after a hot start. Also, Coyle is a natural C isn't he?

What are your impressions (for those who've watched them more)? Obviously for the future it would be great to have one of those guys, but are they going to make an impact at the NHL level during the playoff crush and series? Are you guys as armchair GMs / fans wanting to make a trade that hurts our depth this year but makes us more dangerous next year and the year after?
I would do a Niskanen for Seto + 1st/Recent 1st rounder.

That would be with the knowledge that Seto has looked pretty replaceable and is NOT a sure thing as top 6 forward at this point. I think the risk reward is there given his skill set: basically he's a right shot Petr Sykora with better wheels. On a line with Dustin Jeffrey and Matt Cooke you'll wonder how he ever scored 15 goals let alone 25. But get that guy with the right centre and watch out...

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02-03-2013, 11:25 AM
  #889
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Z. Phillips and Setoguchi
For
Maatta and a pick (2nd or 3rd)


*** Minny was very high on Maatta and apparently in an interview before the Draft, Olli said that he was hoping to be picked by Minny. I'm quoting somebody from the Minny board. He'd also be invited with his ood friend Granlund.

*** Phillips would be perfect in our org. He fills a few needs easily.

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02-03-2013, 11:26 AM
  #890
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I would do a Niskanen for Seto + 1st/Recent 1st rounder.

That would be with the knowledge that Seto has looked pretty replaceable and is NOT a sure thing as top 6 forward at this point. I think the risk reward is there given his skill set: basically he's a right shot Petr Sykora with better wheels. On a line with Dustin Jeffrey and Matt Cooke you'll wonder how he ever scored 15 goals let alone 25. But get that guy with the right centre and watch out...
I know Nisky has played well and Seto is not at his highest value, but do you have them adding a first back? That doesn't seem likely

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02-03-2013, 11:29 AM
  #891
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I know Nisky has played well and Seto is not at his highest value, but do you have them adding a first back? That doesn't seem likely
They need a player that can be sent down to create a spot for Coyle or Zucker so they can replace Seto

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02-03-2013, 12:23 PM
  #892
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Seto on the Trading Block as per Russo...

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi...ture=T&refer=y

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02-03-2013, 12:28 PM
  #893
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Vancouver Scouting For A Trade With Washington Or Pittsburgh

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
VAN GM Mike Gillis and asst GM Laurence Gilman taking in the WSH-PIT game today in D.C.

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02-03-2013, 12:29 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Seto on the Trading Block as per Russo...

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi...ture=T&refer=y
Getting Seto+Cluttberbuck would be unbelievable.

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02-03-2013, 12:35 PM
  #895
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I'd guess that ovi is getting scouted for a trade for luongo. Idk who they'd be interested with us

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02-03-2013, 01:08 PM
  #896
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I'd guess that ovi is getting scouted for a trade for luongo. Idk who they'd be interested with us
Do you think they'd actually do that to their fanbase?

No way they trade Ovi unless they get another star attraction with a long career ahead of him.

Imagine of they swing a deal with Anaheim involving Perry for Ovi?

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02-03-2013, 01:14 PM
  #897
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What about Troy Brouwer?

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02-03-2013, 01:18 PM
  #898
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Why in the world would they trade Ovechkin for Luongo? Obviously Vancouver would be adding, I don't care how AO's been palying, but the Caps goalies are not that bad. Holtby's game today isn't helping me make my case, but he and definitely Neuvirth are solid goaltenders.

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02-03-2013, 01:21 PM
  #899
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So who do you think they are scouting?

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02-03-2013, 01:23 PM
  #900
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One of Holtby/Neurvirth+top prospect for Luongo. Vancouver could really use another center, but I'm not seeing anyone expendable on the Caps roster that would be a big upgrade.

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