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Vegas Strategy

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:03 PM
  #1
Jets
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Vegas Strategy

Not sure if this is the right forum. But I see a lot of speculation about who the Knights are going to pickup and a lot of the narrative about how they need to hit the cap floor/ stay under the cap.

A notion I haven't seen that maybe they could consider...

If you were the Vegas GM, would you take just enough "money" players to hit the cap floor, and then take on a few cap dump players (Bolland, etc.) to add value from the teams trying to dump them?

Is this a viable strategy? I could see them picking up a ton of value in terms of prospects and picks if they just picked the cheapest decent option in the draft and then filled up on cap dumps. Thoughts?

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03-04-2017, 03:07 PM
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Swervin81
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Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is. Leivo snd Rychel are also depth guys we'd prefer keeping around.

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03-04-2017, 03:09 PM
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Nalens Oga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is.
That has to be all speculation imo. I would think Vegas can get 6 dmen better than Marchenko or Marincin who are bottom pairing guys at best and I'd think by now that Toronto has dmen in their farm system like Dermott who can step in and replace Marincin/Marchenko next season.

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03-04-2017, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is.
Why would we give up draft picks for them to take Fehr? His 2M caphit isn't going to hurt us for one year and losing a guy like Marchenko or Marincin isn't a huge loss (losing Marchenko isn't a loss at all).

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03-04-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
That has to be all speculation imo. I would think Vegas can get 6 dmen better than Marchenko or Marincin who are bottom pairing guys at best and I'd think by now that Toronto has dmen in their farm system like Dermott who can step in and replace Marincin/Marchenko next season.
While they likely could, there's definitely benefit to be made on the margin by trading those better guys.

Draft 10 D with the intention of 1-2 of the better ones never seeing the inside of a Vegas jersey, play the younger guys and add the trade return to a team building from the ground up.

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03-04-2017, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is. Leivo snd Rychel are also depth guys we'd prefer keeping around.
Where have you heard this?

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:29 PM
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BigFatCat999
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I have seen a lot of strategies most of them economical at thought. Because of the rules Vegas could easily create a good team and a great AHL team. i expect Vegas to draft a team and use the extra picks to maximize value. Remember Vegas will have 30 picks to build a 23 man team.

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is. Leivo snd Rychel are also depth guys we'd prefer keeping around.
This is just silly. We can bury Fehr if need be and I find it hard to believe that Lou would sacrifice a pick to hold onto third pairing/press box defenders. The Leafs are in about as good as shape as possible when it comes to the expansion draft.

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:38 PM
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Swervin81
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Originally Posted by uncleben85 View Post
Where have you heard this?
Doug MacLean mentioned it in the HC podcast on Thursday.

Our side never leaks, maybe something came out from the Vegas side.

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:42 PM
  #10
danielpalfredsson
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Originally Posted by Jets View Post
If you were the Vegas GM, would you take just enough "money" players to hit the cap floor, and then take on a few cap dump players (Bolland, etc.) to add value from the teams trying to dump them?

Is this a viable strategy? I could see them picking up a ton of value in terms of prospects and picks if they just picked the cheapest decent option in the draft and then filled up on cap dumps. Thoughts?
The GM has to execute the owners wishes to the best of his ability. This entire expansion has been sold as a chance for Vegas to ice a competitive team that will be much better than past expansion teams. If Bill Foley wants the best team possible, there is absolutely no way George McPhee takes the "smart" of bottoming out for 3-5 years, selling off cap space for picks/futures, and stock piling elite talent at the top of the draft.

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:43 PM
  #11
danielpalfredsson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Doug MacLean mentioned it in the HC podcast on Thursday.

Our side never leaks, maybe something came out from the Vegas side.
I think I recall that....wasn't it just speculation rather than concrete fact?

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Old
03-04-2017, 03:54 PM
  #12
johnsic
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Yes I think that is a good strategy and I would do that if I was McPhee.

Tampa Bay: Callahan & Garrison + 1st
NYR: Girardi & Nash/Staal + 1st
Sabres: Ennis & Moulson + st

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:01 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is. Leivo snd Rychel are also depth guys we'd prefer keeping around.
I thought these types of deals weren't allowed?

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:01 PM
  #14
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Lou and McPhee apparently have a handshake agreement for the Knights to pick Fehr in exchange for a draft pick or two. I'd imagine it's so we don't have to lose Marchenko or Marincin since our blue line is thin as is. Leivo snd Rychel are also depth guys we'd prefer keeping around.
Source?

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:09 PM
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My philosophy should be list the best two players on each team. Best player is based on either a young player who can give you something over the next few years or a veteran that you can move at the tdl either in 2018 or 2019.

That way you see what your team looks like if you have the best players from each team and you have a list of the next best guys so that you can move around if you need to add re depth in exchange for d.

As for adding big priced vets I would not take anyone with more than 2 years left on their deals. I doubt the draft picks from LA would be high enough to warrant taking brown or gaborik.

Cap floor will be about $57-$58 million. They should get one good vet goalie, so they should have about $6-$7 million for goaltending.

I would expect them to end up with 2-3 guys who earn $5 million in cap space, with the intention of dealing them at the tdl.

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:10 PM
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Zhamnov5GoalGame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
I thought these types of deals weren't allowed?
Those are definitely allowed. Sports radio guys have been thinking about what the limit is. Vegas has to take someone that they want to play. They can't do that 30 times. But they will probably try to do it a few times.

In my mind they load up on D as much as possible (since there's better available depth there and more value anyways). Trade some D for more picks and prospects.

They also can pull the trigger in Free Agency over the next couple of years to get some first line players to carry the team until they have a chance to develop from within.

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:13 PM
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Leafidelity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
Source?
sinbin.vegas: If A Deal Was Done For Eric Fehr, Why And What Would Vegas Get?

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:29 PM
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In order
Good RFA w/o arbitration
Good rfa
Good players signed long term
Good players signed to shorter terms
Good players really rfas
Players w/contracts
Leftovers
.
.
.
Phaneuf
.
.
.
.
Bobby Ryan

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Old
03-04-2017, 04:36 PM
  #19
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GMGM said in an interview recently (I think it was with the NHL Network as Brian Lawton was asking the questions) that they're trying to be competitive as quick as possibly. That doesn't sound too good to be honest.

Sounds like there's a lot of pressure and they might end up picking players who are old and who they can't control in a year or two. Would be a very bad tactic in my opinion.

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Old
03-04-2017, 05:06 PM
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I ran through it today of what I would do as every GM (projected some things... Fleury trade and protect, Beuchemin buyout):

Bobby Ryan -- Vladislav Namestnikov -- Joel Armia
Benoit Pouliot -- Calle Järnkrok -- Matt Read
Andrej Nestrasil -- William Karlsson -- Dmitri Jaskin
Brendan Gaunce -- Hunter Shinkaruk -- Kerby Rychel

Valeri Nichushkin (worth the risk... the Dallas young D available are ok, but not as nice as other D options elsewhere)
Nicolas Deslauriers (better than drafting anything else from BUF once 10 RFAs accounted for! Just bury him)

Calvin de Haan -- Matt Dumba/Jonas Brodin
Brayden McNabb -- Josh Manson
Brendan Dillon -- Alex Petrovic
Nick Holden -- Brandon Davidson
Jon Merrill -- Ville Pokka
Xavier Oullett -- Derrick Pouliot

Kevin Connauton (the easiest to bury of anything can take from Arizona)

Semyon Varmalov (I'd rather bet on him than Howard... and Oullet is more appealing than anything Colorado have outside of net)
Phillip Grubauer
Malcolm Subban


I did not realise how much the only 10 RFA/UFA rule affected it... there were ~3-4 younger guys I wanted but had to take UFAs instead as valued other RFAs more and could only get 10. And Carolina could only take RFAs unless took Lack!

Then I'd flip a few of the Dmen for picks and prospects to jumpstart prospect pool etc.


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Old
03-04-2017, 05:18 PM
  #21
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I think they should focus on a starting goalie and an NHL defense, and then take a bunch of vet cap dumps at forward. It's easiest to draft impact forwards and they will make an impact quicker.

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Old
03-04-2017, 05:20 PM
  #22
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I wonder if Vegas would go the offer sheet route. The expansion draft will give lots of great depth and lots of middling talent, but no core pieces. Vegas will get a great pick in this upcoming draft, but other than that they could use a real core piece on top of that. The reason Vegas paid all that money and the expansion rules were more generous was to support the team to win games, so trying to maximize the first years makes some sense since there is a good chance they won't be abysmal anyway.

edit: with some obvious great candidates this summer-- Kuznetzov and Draisaitl


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Old
03-04-2017, 06:08 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets View Post
If you were the Vegas GM, would you take just enough "money" players to hit the cap floor, and then take on a few cap dump players (Bolland, etc.) to add value from the teams trying to dump them?

Is this a viable strategy? I could see them picking up a ton of value in terms of prospects and picks if they just picked the cheapest decent option in the draft and then filled up on cap dumps. Thoughts?
I think that would depend on too many things for us to really judge whether they'd do that or not.

In no particular order:
1) Where do they end up cap wise (or where would they end up) just picking the players they actually wanted? How much room in their budget/cap are they actually going to have for a dump?

2) What sort of contracts are you suggesting they take? MAF for example is a FA in 2 years, so that's probably less of an issue then say someone like MacDonald, Girardi or Clarkson who still has 3 years left on their contracts or Brown who has 5 years left.

3) Keep in mind that even if they pick a ton of young kids (say like Pittsburgh's D.Pouliot) if they do not make the team, they'll have to pass through waivers. The same goes if they draft 3 highly regarded goalies. Not a ton of sense in picking someone you know won't make the team - and there's only 23 roster spots.

4) Cap dumps still cost them actual cash, and add little actual value to the team on the ice. And this is an org that will still need to find a way to attract fans. Them putting the best team on the ice possible is how they'll have to do that. And while I'm skeptical in general of how LV will do financially long term, for them to not lose their **** and keep fans returning, they'll have at least be seen as taking steps forward with the potential for more come year 3/4/5.

Keep in mind that their on ice results and there draft position is not linked. They're guaranteed early picks for the first 4 years (I think it's 4, but the first 3-5 anyway) regardless of where they finish in the standings. So there's no real value in them 'tanking', and while I do not expect them to be a cap team, neither do I expect them to take on everyone's ***** contracts for a couple picks.

Bottom line. Could I see them perhaps taking on a less then desirable contract if bribed to do so? Absolutely. But it wont' be someone who's completely useless. It'll be someone like Hagelin for example who is very useful and effective, who's just slightly overpaid and who's contract isn't asinine.

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Old
03-04-2017, 06:12 PM
  #24
Draiskull
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Strategy should be to build from the net out.
Pick 2 goalies for future and one veteran.
There should be plenty good ones available ..

Build to contend 4years out so a whole lot of young guns who can grow with high draft picks.

As an example from Oilers they should be going after Beoissoit, Reinhart, Khaira instead of Pouliot, Fayne, Letestu

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Old
03-04-2017, 06:37 PM
  #25
Tripod
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I don't think the Leafs are that worried to lose a a Dman they just got off waivers.

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