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Florida Panthers Vs. Montreal Canadiens 1/22/13

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:50 PM
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
heres's what i'd do for thursdays game: (assuming no injured players are back)

play jovo, play strachan, bench caruso (obviously) and ellerby.

give shore a bigger role...a much bigger role. he's my second line center on thursday.

break up the second line...all three should be on separate lines, they're too terrible defensively to not be. let them play together on a powerplays if you like their in-zone chemistry, but even that seems to be fading quickly and not worth the headaches they're causing.

give huberdeau and kovalev alot less even strength IT.

if i'm dineen, i absolutely scold weiss in an effort to WAKE THE **** UP! privately, of course.


fleishmann-weiss-mueller
huberdeau-shore-kopecky
upshall-matthias-skille
parros-smithson-kovalev

campbell-strachan
kuba-kulikov
jovo-weaver

and then pray steeger, goc and bergy get better, quickly
Kovalev is basically useless on the 4th line. True, he's useless now, but he needs to have decent players around him to get him going.

I'd try this:

Flash-Weiss-Mueller
Huberdeau-Shore-Upshall
Kopecky-Matthias-Kovalev
Parros-Smithson-Skille

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:51 PM
  #427
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The parallels from Booth to Weiss are inaccurate. First of all, Weiss is obviously still sick. Either that or he suddenly doesn't care anymore. But I'm pretty sure he's sick. Secondly, Booth wasn't traded just because of a few bad games. I'm sure Tallon had been thinking about it for a long time, for the same reason a lot of us were, because of Booth's contract+his concussion history. Thirdly, centers are more valuable than wingers. Unless we get a similar center back in the trade, which I don't think we will(why would another team do that, just swap same exact centers), then it's a bad trade.

So we'd downgrade at 1st line center(and we don't even have a real one).

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01-22-2013, 09:52 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
The parallels from Booth to Weiss are inaccurate. First of all, Weiss is obviously still sick. Either that or he suddenly doesn't care anymore. But I'm pretty sure he's sick. Secondly, Booth wasn't traded just because of a few bad games. I'm sure Tallon had been thinking about it for a long time, for the same reason a lot of us were, because of Booth's contract+his concussion history. Thirdly, centers are more valuable than wingers. Unless we get a similar center back in the trade, which I don't think we will(why would another team do that, just swap same exact centers), then it's a bad trade.

So we'd downgrade at 1st line center(and we don't even have a real one).
Weiss + another player could get us something better than Weiss.

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01-22-2013, 09:53 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
Kopecky, Mueller, Smithson, Skille, and Matthias have been the only players I have been semi-impressed with, everyone else has just either been invisible or played pretty bad.
what has smithson done? unless you mean the fact that he's not putrid defensively, and by comparison to the rest of the team, that's an accomplishment.

Skille and Kopecky are the only two who IMO, are playing with any fire and grit. Matthias is extremely fast but i still don't see the same determination in the corners or in front of the net as the other two.

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01-22-2013, 09:54 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
what has smithson done? unless you mean the fact that he's not putrid defensively, and by comparison to the rest of the team, that's an accomplishment.

Skille and Kopecky are the only two who IMO, are playing with any fire and grit. Matthias is extremely fast but i still don't see the same determination in the corners or in front of the net as the other two.
Smithson has actually been decent on the forecheck and he is playing with his legs, he isn't just gliding around the ice having no idea what to do. Obviously he hasn't done much on the score sheet, but he looks like he wants to score.

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01-22-2013, 09:57 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
Weiss + another player could get us something better than Weiss.
I don't think we're trading our #1 center. We're only 1 game under .500. I think he's sick. Everyone is playing bad. Only way we trade Weiss, imo, is if we're out of the playoff race.

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:58 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
Smithson has actually been decent on the forecheck and he is playing with his legs, he isn't just gliding around the ice having no idea what to do. Obviously he hasn't done much on the score sheet, but he looks like he wants to score.
i'm not questioning smithsons hustle, he just sucks. aka: i'd go out there and hustle my ass of if they'd put me in the lineup, but that doesn't make me a good asset to the team.

smithson really doesnt add anything to this team.

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01-22-2013, 10:00 PM
  #433
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you know what it feels like to me? I think that 1st win against Carolina really hurt us. It feels that because of how badly we outplayed Carolina that our team feels they don't have to hussle and they just have to show up! I hope this game and last nights game makes them feel differently. Win or Lose against Ottawa Thursday, I expect 100% effort out of this team!
The thing is that, even counting that first game, it's only been 1 good period of hockey and 8 bad ones. Not here and there either, 8 straight periods of abysmal hockey from this team. 2 goals for, 9 against. In the past 8 periods we've also been outshot 100 to 72.

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01-22-2013, 10:00 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by gizmo12688 View Post
Kovalev is basically useless on the 4th line. True, he's useless now, but he needs to have decent players around him to get him going.

I'd try this:

Flash-Weiss-Mueller
Huberdeau-Shore-Upshall
Kopecky-Matthias-Kovalev
Parros-Smithson-Skille


i agree about Kovalev...my thinking is that Kovalev is just unable to keep up (because of age, and lack of desire) to NHL 5-on-5 play, so put him on the fourth line so he inflicts minimal damage with limited ice time, and put him on the #1 PP unit.

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01-22-2013, 10:00 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
Weiss + another player could get us something better than Weiss.
True. I don't see it though. Also, like I said, Tallon doesn't make knee-jerk reactions. Trading Weiss would be one. He thought about trading Booth for awhile, I'm sure. Weiss could score in the next couple games and then everyone would be off his back.

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:04 PM
  #436
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Why the hell does everyone hate on ellerby? He's been playing well. Yeah, he took that tripping penalty, but how many other guys took penalties tonight?

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01-22-2013, 10:07 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
True. I don't see it though. Also, like I said, Tallon doesn't make knee-jerk reactions. Trading Weiss would be one. He thought about trading Booth for awhile, I'm sure. Weiss could score in the next couple games and then everyone would be off his back.
Just for the record: I agree. I'm not saying to deal Weiss, I was just saying i wouldn't rule it out. Tallon will do as bold a move as any GM will IMO.

Weiss + something will not get us a better player because that would mean a legitimate star would be coming back and I don't think any GM is dumb enough to deal a legit star for an impending UFA and scraps.

Joe Thornton was traded for Brad Stuart and scraps so I guess you never know, but I don't see it. If Weiss is traded it'll probably be for a package of players similar to the Booth deal.

our best hope (and honestly, probably our only hope to make the playoffs THIS year) is that Weiss just gets his head out of his ass and plays the two-way hockey we all know he's capable of playing. I'm not even concerned that he's not doing anything offensively...he's gone through long stretches of invisibility offensively before. what concerns me is his defensive play, he's been absolutely awful. He's always been a player who, when he's not scoring, was contributing in other areas, like the PK and his excellent 5-on-5 play, and right now he's been the complete opposite. aside from Huberdeau and Kovalev I think he's been the worst defensive player on the team, and thats BAD.

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:08 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Why the hell does everyone hate on ellerby? He's been playing well. Yeah, he took that tripping penalty, but how many other guys took penalties tonight?
I actually really like Ellerby, but I just think Strachan is better and the lack of leadership with Jovo out of the lineup was pretty apparent tonight.

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:11 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Why the hell does everyone hate on ellerby? He's been playing well. Yeah, he took that tripping penalty, but how many other guys took penalties tonight?
Yeah, I think he's played good too.

As for Kovy, I just don't expect much out of him. With any 'back nine' player, I usually look at them as just being serviceable. Just like Madden last season. I do not look at them like a younger Madden or a younger Kovy and expect them to pile on points. Basically, whatever they give is what I'll take.

-ghoste

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:21 PM
  #440
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the one silver lining (not even a silver lining really, just grasping for hope ) is this:

tuning into other games, the canadiens and senators seem to play an incredibly aggressive system compared to other teams. their forcheck is relentless. i remember last year we had troubles with teams that play those type of systems (we were awful against Ottawa last season as well)

we went 4-0 against Montreal but that was against a team with a very passive system. Therrien is a new coach with a new system, a very aggressive one apparently.

Dineen plays a "puck control" system (similar to Babcock's in DET) that stresses puck possession, and teams like that seem to give us trouble because we really don't have the talent to execute them properly against that type of pressure

hopefully that's it and it's just making our guys look bad. really bad. i distinctly remember our guys having problems executing with teams with systems like that last year, though. i distinctly remember us having a similar conversation on these boards last year when Garrison had a terrible turnover with like 10 seconds left in a tied game in Ottawa, a game that we got badly outplayed in and had consistent, sloppy turnovers in. so im hoping there's something to my theory. that wont help us any on Thursday, though.

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01-22-2013, 10:21 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
i'm not questioning smithsons hustle, he just sucks. aka: i'd go out there and hustle my ass of if they'd put me in the lineup, but that doesn't make me a good asset to the team.

smithson really doesnt add anything to this team.
He's good with faceoffs and is rather reliable defensively.

He's a 4th line center. Shouldn't everyone be judged based on the role they're expected to play? 4th line centers, for the most part, have limited skill sets.

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01-22-2013, 10:23 PM
  #442
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Yeah, I think he's played good too.

As for Kovy, I just don't expect much out of him. With any 'back nine' player, I usually look at them as just being serviceable. Just like Madden last season. I do not look at them like a younger Madden or a younger Kovy and expect them to pile on points. Basically, whatever they give is what I'll take.

-ghoste
It's different now because Kovalev is in our top-6.
Madden was a 4th liner who was sometimes a healthy scratch.

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01-22-2013, 10:23 PM
  #443
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He's good with faceoffs and is rather reliable defensively.

He's a 4th line center. Shouldn't everyone be judged based on the role they're expected to play? 4th line centers, for the most part, have limited skill sets.
he's not limited though. matthias is limited. smithson is an absolute zero.

i, personally, want to be able to roll four lines and feel like each line can contribute from time to time. our fourth line right now (with Smithson and Parros) is basically just a "status-quo" line. meaning if nothing happens, its a good shift for them. they're not going to score.

i don't like that.

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01-22-2013, 10:38 PM
  #444
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I'm officially boarding the trade Weiss bandwagon.. only if we can get a solid return, of course.

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
he's not limited though. matthias is limited. smithson is an absolute zero.

i, personally, want to be able to roll four lines and feel like each line can contribute from time to time. our fourth line right now (with Smithson and Parros) is basically just a "status-quo" line. meaning if nothing happens, its a good shift for them. they're not going to score.

i don't like that.
I don't think Smithson is "nothing," though. I agree that Parros does nothing but fight; Smithson, however, plays the role of most 4th line centers. How many 4th line centers score a good amount, really?

A guy who finishes his checks, is sound defensively, and wins faceoffs has value. As of right now, he's probably our most valuable guy in terms of faceoffs with Goc out. Dineen even used him multiple times last night to win important faceoffs and try to gain possession in the offensive zone.

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01-22-2013, 10:47 PM
  #446
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We sat K Wellwood, maybe we're keeping our rookie? ........

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:58 PM
  #447
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I don't think Smithson is "nothing," though. I agree that Parros does nothing but fight; Smithson, however, plays the role of most 4th line centers. How many 4th line centers score a good amount, really?

A guy who finishes his checks, is sound defensively, and wins faceoffs has value. As of right now, he's probably our most valuable guy in terms of faceoffs with Goc out. Dineen even used him multiple times last night to win important faceoffs and try to gain possession in the offensive zone.

i don't even need a 4th liner to score a "good amount". 5-10 goals, 15-20 points is fine. skille is a great fourth liner. he's not going to score much but when he's on the ice i feel he "can" score. he creates opportunities and energy. all smithson does is produce energy with those "intangibles"

i just think smithson is a very fringe player and where he can contribute (faceoffs is pretty much it, his defensive play is solid but nothing special, it's pretty ordinary for a grinder) can be replaced rather easily.

what were shore's faceoff numbers in the AHL? he impressed me tonight, alot more than smithson, thats for sure.

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01-22-2013, 11:05 PM
  #448
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If he's easily replaceable why can we never find anyone for that line? Smithson does what he does well, I think you're expecting way too much for a grinder, not real sure why he's at all complaint when the top two likes have been awful. Top lines do their jobs, the grind lines can do just that, grind teams down.

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01-22-2013, 11:09 PM
  #449
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This game was rough. Very tough to watch.

As was said earlier by flapanthersfan Montreal and Ottawa play aggressive systems. It's way too early to be hitting the panic button, but things don't look good. Some consistency in the offensive zone is needed from this team but we're just not getting it.

I think Dineen is a damn idiot for making a guy who won't even dress in all of our games the captain. Campbell should be captain as he's in the lineup every night.

Our D core is slow. They don't make decisions well under pressure. Our forwards, particularly Kovalev, are terrible at getting the puck out. I know Kovalev is old but damn it man if you have 5 seconds to stick handle it you have more than enough time to GET IT OUT.

It's sad when guys like Skille and Matthias are your best players, but good for them. They're doing their best to help this team win, which is more than I can say for a lot of our guys. I'm hoping going home and getting an earful from Dineen will help in the effort department.

It'll be nice to get Versteeg back but it won't rejuvenate our offence. We need to add something else to this team. Hopefully Tallon will realize this. Weiss is playing terribly right now but I don't think we can realistically talk about trading him. He does look off, as in a sick way. Hopefully that's all it is and he turns this around. The difference between Weiss and Booth is that Booth was expendable with guys like Upshall and Bergy in the lineup. There's nobody in the lineup who can really replace Weiss when he's playing like he usually does.

These next couple games are important. One against an opponent who just beat us on their own turf pretty handedly, and one that is equally struggling for scoring and defense. These are two games we can win, but we need a complete team effort and we need more flow from our game. It's like this team is really tense and nervous at the beginning of games. Just play the game!

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01-22-2013, 11:10 PM
  #450
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i don't even need a 4th liner to score a "good amount". 5-10 goals, 15-20 points is fine. skille is a great fourth liner. he's not going to score much but when he's on the ice i feel he "can" score. he creates opportunities and energy. all smithson does is produce energy with those "intangibles"

i just think smithson is a very fringe player and where he can contribute (faceoffs is pretty much it, his defensive play is solid but nothing special, it's pretty ordinary for a grinder) can be replaced rather easily.

what were shore's faceoff numbers in the AHL? he impressed me tonight, alot more than smithson, thats for sure.
What's the difference? You might feel he can score, but the bottom line is he can't. And that's all Skille does. So, at the end of the day, it boils down to both players are limited, which is the reason that they're 4th liners.

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