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Old
01-23-2013, 10:41 AM
  #101
La Huracanista
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Ward's been bad for 2 games, and our shots haven't gone in for 2 games. = losing.

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01-23-2013, 10:44 AM
  #102
La Huracanista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
You are either A) delusional, B) didn't watch either game, or C) trolling.

They didn't lose two games in a row, then haven't even been in either game. They haven't even competed for points yet.
small sample size
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01-23-2013, 10:46 AM
  #103
Boom Boom Anton
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I don't know enough about MacKinnon and Jones, but if the Canes get the number 1 pick, you take BPA with that pick, not fill a need IMO. If the consensus is that MacKinnon is the best, you choose him. Look back in time.

Would you rather have Taveres or Hedmen?
Would you rather have Stamkos or Doughty (although this is closer, I'd still take Stamkos any day)
Would you rather have Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, or Larrsson?
Would you rather have Sequin/Hall..or Gundbrandson?

The only time in the last 15 years that a defenseman has been chosen #1 was Erik Johnson. While Johnson is a fine defenseman, I'd argue that J. Staal, Backstrom, Towes, and even Kessel have had more accomplished careers.

But I agree with totalkev, this team won't get a #1 or #2 pick. Even if they stink it up to start, they'll turn it around enough to get a 7-12 pick.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:49 AM
  #104
La Huracanista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I don't know enough about MacKinnon and Jones, but if the Canes get the number 1 pick, you take BPA with that pick, not fill a need IMO. If the consensus is that MacKinnon is the best, you choose him. Look back in time.

Would you rather have Taveres or Hedmen?
Would you rather have Stamkos or Doughty (although this is closer, I'd still take Stamkos any day)
Would you rather have Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, or Larrsson?
Would you rather have Sequin/Hall..or Gundbrandson?

The only time in the last 15 years that a defenseman has been chosen #1 was Erik Johnson. While Johnson is a fine defenseman, I'd argue that J. Staal, Backstrom, Towes, and even Kessel have had more accomplished careers.

But I agree with totalkev, this team won't get a #1 or #2 pick. Even if they stink it up to start, they'll turn it around enough to get a 7-12 pick.
One thing that JR deserves credit for is explicitly saying that he doesn't like taking defensemen high. It really seems like 90% of the time you ought to use the first round pick on a forward.

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01-23-2013, 10:49 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I don't know enough about MacKinnon and Jones, but if the Canes get the number 1 pick, you take BPA with that pick, not fill a need IMO. If the consensus is that MacKinnon is the best, you choose him. Look back in time.

Would you rather have Taveres or Hedmen?
Would you rather have Stamkos or Doughty (although this is closer, I'd still take Stamkos any day)
Would you rather have Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, or Larrsson?
Would you rather have Sequin/Hall..or Gundbrandson?

The only time in the last 15 years that a defenseman has been chosen #1 was Erik Johnson. While Johnson is a fine defenseman, I'd argue that J. Staal, Backstrom, Towes, and even Kessel have had more accomplished careers.

But I agree with totalkev, this team won't get a #1 or #2 pick. Even if they stink it up to start, they'll turn it around enough to get a 7-12 pick.
If Faulk gets hurt for any length of time I think they could finish dead last. Can you imagine the defense then?

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by La Huracanista View Post
One thing that JR deserves credit for is explicitly saying that he doesn't like taking defensemen high. It really seems like 90% of the time you ought to use the first round pick on a forward.
You know, unless you'd like to have a Drew Doughty on your team. He's pretty good.

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01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #107
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2 games and we're already talking about McKinnon and Jones. Yep, pretty much unvistable here.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:57 AM
  #108
La Huracanista
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
You know, unless you'd like to have a Drew Doughty on your team. He's pretty good.
Not to mention Jack Johnson! Or Thomas Hickey! Or Cam Barker!

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01-23-2013, 10:59 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
2 games and we're already talking about McKinnon and Jones. Yep, pretty much unvistable here.
I blame Trollinen's SimuCanes for raising the expectations too high.

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01-23-2013, 11:00 AM
  #110
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by La Huracanista View Post
One thing that JR deserves credit for is explicitly saying that he doesn't like taking defensemen high. It really seems like 90% of the time you ought to use the first round pick on a forward.
I don't know if I'd go that far. I do think it's harder to judge some of these defensemen, how long it will take for them to develop, etc....but, there are a lot of outstanding (or at least very good) defensemen chosen in the 1st round. Suter, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Burns, Seabrook, Phaneuf, Marc Staal, Alzner, McDonaugh, Karlsson, etc..

My only point was that if you have a top pick, you pick BPA and not for need.

Anyhow, it's kind of irrelevant...as I expect them to turn it around at somepoint. The question is how long will it take for them to gain the chemistry and shake off the rust.

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01-23-2013, 11:01 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by La Huracanista View Post
Not to mention Jack Johnson! Or Thomas Hickey! Or Cam Barker!
So what has JRs strategy of not drafting defenseman netted him? Faulk and dick. The defense is a trainwreck with 1 hurricanes draft pick in the entire unit. I don't think that's something he should be congratulated for.

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01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Huracanista View Post
Ward's been bad for 2 games, and our shots haven't gone in for 2 games. = losing.
Our defense has been awful, Ward not much better and the offense has missed on some golden chances but their chances are outnumberd 5 to 1 with the other team.

sure its a small sample size but this team doesn't have long to turn it around. It's not a team that can have an off night and still win.

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01-23-2013, 11:05 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I don't know if I'd go that far. I do think it's harder to judge some of these defensemen, how long it will take for them to develop, etc....but, there are a lot of outstanding (or at least very good) defensemen chosen in the 1st round. Suter, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Burns, Seabrook, Phaneuf, Marc Staal, Alzner, McDonaugh, Karlsson, etc..

My only point was that if you have a top pick, you pick BPA and not for need.

Anyhow, it's kind of irrelevant...as I expect them to turn it around at somepoint. The question is how long will it take for them to gain the chemistry and shake off the rust.
Yeah, 90% was probably high. I would say that in a coin flip situation you take the forward, though, especially if it's a top 5 pick. There are busts, but usually you're getting a guy who's points simply translate to NHL points. With defensemen it's not that simple.

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01-23-2013, 11:11 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
Our defense has been awful, Ward not much better and the offense has missed on some golden chances but their chances are outnumberd 5 to 1 with the other team.

sure its a small sample size but this team doesn't have long to turn it around. It's not a team that can have an off night and still win.
Well it's weird in terms of the chances, because we've been behind by like two goals for most of both games this year. When your team is behind, you just sort of get more chances because the other team is backing off a bit. So we've been outchancing our opponents but a lot of it is due to the effects of the lopsided scores. That being said, when your team gets 30-something shots you usually get 3 goals out of it.

As to why we can't finish...there isn't a reason. It's just puck luck. "Finishing chances" isn't an actual athletic skill, it's just that a shot that has a chance to go in also has a chance to not go in. Sometimes there are runs of bad luck.

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01-23-2013, 11:19 AM
  #115
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Four teams at the bottom of the East:

Canes
Caps
Rangers
Flyers




Along with LA still not having a win, I think we should wait a little before considering this season a failure.

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01-23-2013, 11:23 AM
  #116
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Four teams at the bottom of the East:

Canes
Caps
Rangers
Flyers

Along with LA still not having a win, I think we should wait a little before considering this season a failure.
True, but one of those things is not like the others. Caps, Rangers, Flyers and Kings have ALL made the playoffs each of the last 2 seasons. I do agree it's way too early to panic based on being 0-2 and I'm not in panic mode. What's concerned me more is how they've looked while going 0-2, particularly defensively, and it's fair to be concerned.

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01-23-2013, 11:25 AM
  #117
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EDIT: You edited FIRST...

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01-23-2013, 11:25 AM
  #118
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weeeeeeeeeee


Last edited by normalpsychology: 01-26-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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01-23-2013, 11:26 AM
  #119
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Is there anyway to listen to John and Tripp's broadcast while at the games? Does it go out over a local radio station also?

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01-23-2013, 11:35 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Huracanista View Post
As to why we can't finish...there isn't a reason. It's just puck luck. "Finishing chances" isn't an actual athletic skill, it's just that a shot that has a chance to go in also has a chance to not go in. Sometimes there are runs of bad luck.
While I don't disagree, I also think there is more than luck to our 4% shooting. We're not making life difficult on opposing goaltenders primarily because the forwards are not doing the dirty work to score on deflections and rebounds. Semin failing to shoot the puck at an open net is an athletic failure, as is shooting it along the ice at a sprawled-out goalie.

Like everyone else, our forwards need to be better. Jokinen in particular has been awful, Skinner has been only so-so, Eric Staal has not stepped up the way we had hoped he would. Missing Ruutu hurts more than some would like to admit. There are a lot of individual issues feeding into the lack of goal scoring, above and beyond the bad puck luck they are experiencing.

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01-23-2013, 11:42 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
While I don't disagree, I also think there is more than luck to our 4% shooting. We're not making life difficult on opposing goaltenders primarily because the forwards are not doing the dirty work to score on deflections and rebounds. Semin failing to shoot the puck at an open net is an athletic failure, as is shooting it along the ice at a sprawled-out goalie.

Like everyone else, our forwards need to be better. Jokinen in particular has been awful, Skinner has been only so-so, Eric Staal has not stepped up the way we had hoped he would. Missing Ruutu hurts more than some would like to admit. There are a lot of individual issues feeding into the lack of goal scoring, above and beyond the bad puck luck they are experiencing.
Another issue is getting down early in the game. Scoring first can solve a lot of issues use by being able to play a different style, rolling 4 lines semi consistently, etc.

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01-23-2013, 11:43 AM
  #122
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The organizational blind spot for defense strikes again. You guys can micro-analyze all you want, but at the end of the day, we have one top four d-man -- and he's 20 years old.

Tim Gleason is no better than Jay Harrison. Sanguinetti and Corvo have no business in the league. And Joni Pitkanen is maddeningly frustrating, having all the skills but seemingly no idea what to do with them. The combined hockey sense of the five of them barely approaches Faulk's.

Our guys get forechecked so easily, get pushed around like ragdolls, and even if they don't lose the puck, their first pass is so bad than we lose all momentum.

I've come to the conclusion that we're just not going back to the playoffs until the defense is overhauled, and it's just not my job to solve the problem.
I actually think we do have 3 top 4 dmen on the roster, we just don't have a good mix.

Gleason is the only stay at home guy that can be reliably counted on to play top 4 minutes. And he's more of a #4 guy then a top 3 which is flat out bad news.

Faulk's proving to be a stud but he's more of a two-way guy and young so I expect mistakes. He was frigin phenomenal last night in his coverage though.

Pitkanen is a good #2/great #3 at this point in his career. But he can't be relied on to cover for the mistakes of Sanguinetti who should by all means be replaced in the lineup by McBain. Joni just doesn't have that kind of defensive game to him.

Not saying that McBain would be a cure-all by ANY means, but he'd most likely be better then Sangs by a fair margin. He's proven he can be a capable defender at the NHL level already, even if he is more of a #4/5 guy rather then the #2/3 type that I and many others were hoping he'd be.

The aggravating is that year after year we see our conference and division opponents at least going out there and trying to address their defenses. Greg Zanon, Sami Salo, Michal Roszival, hell even re-signing Allen. All options within a decent price range that were all a hell of a lot better then bringing back Joe ****ing Corvo. He's nothing more then a PP specialist #6 right now, I would argue he's not even worth a million yet alone the 2 we're paying him.

It sucks that our defensive prospects that were looking great before the season seem to be struggling (sans Jordan, Lowe, and Carrick) but this really is something we should have been able to plug short term while waiting for some to pan out long term. A reliable guy like Rosival on a one or two year deal would have been huge for this team this year.

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01-23-2013, 11:45 AM
  #123
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So what has JRs strategy of not drafting defenseman netted him? Faulk and dick. The defense is a trainwreck with 1 hurricanes draft pick in the entire unit. I don't think that's something he should be congratulated for.
This. 1000x this.

When you take JR's stated rule that he prefers not to take defensemen in the first round and combine it with JR's inability to ice an NHL-level defense corps, you don't have to squint too hard to see a correlation.

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01-23-2013, 11:48 AM
  #124
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Glad you guys had a good experience. One thing I honestly like about our fans (or at least the ones inside the arena) is that they can be passionate without being outright hostile.

Anybody see the Lightning fans in 312 who got kicked out 5 minutes into the game? I wonder what happened there?
Damn, missed that and it's right by my section (314). Wonder what the hell happened there as usually it seems like security is a lot easier on road fans then they are on our own. Probably had to literally take someone throwing a punch unprovoked.

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01-23-2013, 12:01 PM
  #125
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For a small market team to be successful, we need to get people who can contribute at the next level sooner rather than later from our early first round picks. Whether you agree with that or not, that is the mantra that JR takes in drafting.

Unless we are talking about the best player in the draft (ie a Jones type player), you don't get many defenders who can jump right from the draft.

First round picks are the only picks where you can draft NHL ready talent. Again, unless we are talking about a freak like Seth Jones, most defensemen are not NHL ready at the draft.

Besides, why are people complaining. In the last 3 drafts, we have taken:

Phillipe di Giusseppe (38th overall, thanks DaveG for the catch, no impact yet)
Ryan Murphy (a defensman)
Jeff Skinner (7th overall, could have had Cam Fowler)
Phillipe Paradise (an awful pick, but 26th, so no one who would be contributing right now, save for limited minutes from Dmitri Orlov).
Zach Boychuk (This one looks bad: we could have had Karlsson, Del Zotto, Schultz or Voynov).

That we have to go back 5 drafts to complain about JR not drafting defensemen in the first round is fairly indicative.

Besides, the defense has not been the only problem. We could have had Patrick Roy in net, and probably still would have lost those games because our offense has only generated 2 goals in 2 games. The entire team is failing to mesh properly. That's why we lost 5-1 to the Panthers, who have since surrendered 8 goals in 2 games and scored only 1.


Last edited by Finlandia WOAT: 01-23-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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