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GAME #3 - Canucks vs. Flames - Watch Me Schroed - 7:00PM PST - SPAC

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01-23-2013, 08:43 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Statistically, Raymond has significantly out produced Schroeder at the AHL. In fact, Raymonds best season in the NHL, statistically, is better than Schroeder's best season in the AHL...
Statistically Jordan Schroeder significantly outproduced Raymond in the World Juniors...

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01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Statistically Jordan Schroeder significantly outproduced Raymond in the World Juniors...
That has to be the most useless, irrelevant sample size there is in hockey.

The fact that Schroeder can't out produce Raymond is terrifying.

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01-23-2013, 08:46 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Statistically Jordan Schroeder significantly outproduced Raymond in the World Juniors...

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01-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
That has to be the most useless, irrelevant sample size there is in hockey.

The fact that Schroeder can't out produce Raymond is terrifying.
Point is these comparisons mean nothing by sample size. Comparing Raymonds 30 odd AHL games from years ago to Schroeder now.

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01-23-2013, 08:48 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Statistically, Raymond has significantly out produced Schroeder at the AHL. In fact, Raymonds best season in the NHL, statistically, is better than Schroeder's best season in the AHL...
Does that make Jason Krog better than pretty much everyone?

Does age, teammates or what's happened lately factor into your post?

I am not sure how anyone can really make such a ridiculous statement without actually giving both a chance to play. Are you one of those people that has intently watched both play? Never mind the fact they play different positions.

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01-23-2013, 08:48 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Point is these comparisons mean nothing by sample size. Comparing Raymonds 30 odd AHL games from years ago to Schroeder now.
As long as they can play well for us, don't really care who is better.

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01-23-2013, 08:49 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Statistically Jordan Schroeder significantly outproduced Raymond in the World Juniors...
NCAA numbers were great and he wasn't a 20 yo freshman.

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01-23-2013, 08:51 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Statistically Jordan Schroeder significantly outproduced Raymond in the World Juniors...
Obviously Raymond didn't play in the World Juniors.

Anyway, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest, as you and others seem to be suggesting, that Schroeder is more offensively talented than Raymond when Raymond's best offensive season in the NHL was scoring at a 0.64 (ppg) and Schroeder's best offensive season in the AHL was scoring at a 0.63 (ppg). In the AHL Raymond scored at a 0.85 ppg.

I know people like to hate Raymond, but this is getting ridiculous.

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01-23-2013, 08:52 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Point is these comparisons mean nothing by sample size. Comparing Raymonds 30 odd AHL games from years ago to Schroeder now.
I am not just comparing Raymond's AHL production, I am looking at his NHL production. In fact, when I was comparing Raymond's NHL season to Schroeder's AHL season I was looking at Schroeder's production this season where he had only played 30 games or so. So if anything, I am giving Schroeder the benefit of the doubt when it comes to small sample sizes.

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01-23-2013, 08:53 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Obviously Raymond didn't play in the World Juniors.

Anyway, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest, as you and others seem to be suggesting, that Schroeder is more offensively talented than Raymond when Raymond's best offensive season in the NHL was scoring at a 0.64 (ppg) and Schroeder's best offensive season in the AHL was scoring at a 0.63 (ppg). In the AHL Raymond scored at a 0.85 ppg.

I know people like to hate Raymond, but this is getting ridiculous.
I think it was you that stated Raymond is "far more talented". Of late, like the last 2 years, Raymond has not been offensive in a good way.

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01-23-2013, 08:53 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
That has to be the most useless, irrelevant sample size there is in hockey.

The fact that Schroeder can't out produce Raymond is terrifying.
Yes! I agree, because Mason Raymond is a plug, has always been a plug, has never suffered a disastrous injury, and has never put up a 50 pt season in the NHL.

Incidentally, I also had a lobotomy which precludes me from remembering anything that happened more than a week ago.

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01-23-2013, 08:55 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
The fact that Schroeder can't out produce Raymond is terrifying.
Not really. This team needs him to be a 3rd line centre not a 2nd liner like Raymond. Schroeder needs to be a plus possession player (get more shots than he gives up) with two good wingers against weaker competition. That's a lot easier than producing with Kesler while going up against the other teams best.

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01-23-2013, 08:56 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post

Anyway, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest, as you and others seem to be suggesting, that Schroeder is more offensively talented than Raymond when Raymond's best offensive season in the NHL was scoring at a 0.64 (ppg) and Schroeder's best offensive season in the AHL was scoring at a 0.63 (ppg). In the AHL Raymond scored at a 0.85 ppg.
Then why was Schroeder a 1st rd pick that was projected to go in the top 10? He was a smurf with no physical game and needed work defensively...

I don't think there's any doubt as to who see's the ice and moves the puck better.

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01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Does that make Jason Krog better than pretty much everyone?

Does age, teammates or what's happened lately factor into your post?

I am not sure how anyone can really make such a ridiculous statement without actually giving both a chance to play. Are you one of those people that has intently watched both play? Never mind the fact they play different positions.
Yes I have watched both play, a lot. I didn't make the initial statement, I was rebutting the implication made by some that Schroeder is more offensively talented than Raymond. This isn't to suggest that I think Schroeder isn't offensively talented, only that Raymond's offensive talent has been underrated.

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01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Obviously Raymond didn't play in the World Juniors.

Anyway, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest, as you and others seem to be suggesting, that Schroeder is more offensively talented than Raymond when Raymond's best offensive season in the NHL was scoring at a 0.64 (ppg) and Schroeder's best offensive season in the AHL was scoring at a 0.63 (ppg). In the AHL Raymond scored at a 0.85 ppg.

I know people like to hate Raymond, but this is getting ridiculous.
Well i'll give you another. Based on AHL stats Mason Raymond is far superior offensively to Zach Parise, or Alex Burrows, or James Neal, or Martin Erat...

What a player can or has done in the AHL doesn't always represent how good they can be at the NHL level.

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01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
I am not just comparing Raymond's AHL production, I am looking at his NHL production. In fact, when I was comparing Raymond's NHL season to Schroeder's AHL season I was looking at Schroeder's production this season where he had only played 30 games or so. So if anything, I am giving Schroeder the benefit of the doubt when it comes to small sample sizes.
I don't care what league you're in, this is a team game. I think it's pretty easy to see that Raymond/Kesler/Samuelsson is a lot more to work with than Sweatt/Schroeder/Plug no matter what league you're playing in.

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01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #267
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What are we even arguing about with Schroeder? Does anyone doubt he's going to be a decent NHLer?

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01-23-2013, 08:59 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
I am not just comparing Raymond's AHL production, I am looking at his NHL production. In fact, when I was comparing Raymond's NHL season to Schroeder's AHL season I was looking at Schroeder's production this season where he had only played 30 games or so. So if anything, I am giving Schroeder the benefit of the doubt when it comes to small sample sizes.
Raymond's best AHL season was 17 points in 20 games on a team that had Brad Moran and Jason Jaffray score above PPG, in a non-lockout year. Schroeder this year produced comparable goal numbers on a much lower scoring team. Prior to that, when he didn't play on a top line and didn't have an AHL All-Star carry him, Raymond scored measly 5 points in 24 games.

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01-23-2013, 09:02 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Bardok View Post
Yes! I agree, because Mason Raymond is a plug, has always been a plug, has never suffered a disastrous injury, and has never put up a 50 pt season in the NHL.

Incidentally, I also had a lobotomy which precludes me from remembering anything that happened more than a week ago.
I am not saying raymond is absolute garbage and we should give him a chance again (although I dont know if hes top 6 material but given our current status we need to use him)

but i wish people would stop using that to excuse every season.

Before he had that injury the season prior he played bad.

When he returned from the back injury as well, he was on fire, then went missing the rest of the season. He is not a plug but if he is a top 6 player, and needs to be in a top 6 role, he needs to prove it again, and hopefully he can.

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01-23-2013, 09:02 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I think it was you that stated Raymond is "far more talented". Of late, like the last 2 years, Raymond has not been offensive in a good way.
Last year Raymond was coming back from a career threatening injury. I am not sure it is fair to ignore that. As for the year before, Raymond still put up a 0.57 ppg. Just last year, Schroeder put up a 0.58 ppg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Then why was Schroeder a 1st rd pick that was projected to go in the top 10? He was a smurf with no physical game and needed work defensively...

I don't think there's any doubt as to who see's the ice and moves the puck better.
Like I said, I am not suggesting that Schroeder isn't talented offensively. My point was that statistically, Raymond's production is far more impressive.

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01-23-2013, 09:03 PM
  #271
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I remember Pavel Bure's first game.

I was playing a minor hockey game (after beating the crap out of th home team of spoiled rich kids who played for Arbutus) I walked out of the Arbutus club with my dad and got into the car and the first thing we heard Jim Robson say is "Everyone here has wanted to adopt Pavel Bure and take him home."


Then again...I also remember Robin Bawa's first game that year.

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01-23-2013, 09:04 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
IMO, Kassian will be one of the fan favourites by the end of the Regular Season. The fight with Eager, which ultimately gave him a concussion, is just beastly. I just have that feeling Kass will win lots of people over this year, in the short season.

Hoping for a good game by him tonight. Just need him to be consistent with his play, and he'll be a great player.
I didn't know Eager got a concussion out of it. If true, he really won't be able
to fight Kassian again this season from a medical perspective, even if he isn't gun-shy about getting clocked again.

Do you have a source for this? I want to know it's true

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01-23-2013, 09:05 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Last year Raymond was coming back from a career threatening injury. I am not sure it is fair to ignore that. As for the year before, Raymond still put up a 0.57 ppg. Just last year, Schroeder put up a 0.58 ppg.



Like I said, I am not suggesting that Schroeder isn't talented offensively. My point was that statistically, Raymond's production is far more impressive.

Apples and Oranges.

Raymond turns 27 this year and he has one 20 goal season in his entire career.

Schroeder turns 22 this year and he is playing his first game tonight.

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01-23-2013, 09:06 PM
  #274
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I didn't know Eager got a concussion out of it. If true, he really won't be able
to fight Kassian again this season from a medical perspective, even if he isn't gun-shy about getting clocked again.

Do you have a source for this? I want to know it's true
I'm on my phone so I can't link to a source, but multiple names on Twitter reported he had a concussion.

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01-23-2013, 09:06 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Well i'll give you another. Based on AHL stats Mason Raymond is far superior offensively to Zach Parise, or Alex Burrows, or James Neal, or Martin Erat...

What a player can or has done in the AHL doesn't always represent how good they can be at the NHL level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Raymond's best AHL season was 17 points in 20 games on a team that had Brad Moran and Jason Jaffray score above PPG, in a non-lockout year. Schroeder this year produced comparable goal numbers on a much lower scoring team. Prior to that, when he didn't play on a top line and didn't have an AHL All-Star carry him, Raymond scored measly 5 points in 24 games.
The thing is, I am not just comparing Raymond's AHL offensive production to Schroeder's AHL production. I am also comparing Raymond's NHL production to Schroeder's AHL production and that comparison seems to suggest that Raymond is the more offensively talented player. That is quite significant, that Raymond's best season in the NHL, a far superior league to the AHL, is better than Schroeder's best year in the AHL.

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